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AAA 2012 Draft

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Old
10-31-2012, 03:33 PM
  #151
Hedberg
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Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
That's not what I'm saying. The multipositionality gives him added value as a spare, but I'm just not 100% convinced his accomplishments at either position (or at both combined) warrant a spot as a regular. I'm not saying I'm 0% convinced either, mind you...
I know that's not exactly what you were saying, but it's often the fate of guys who played two positions relatively equally.

North American amateurs are the hardest to gauge and Mayasich did have a legitimate reason he never had NHL offers as he was in the ROTC and face two years of military commitments before he could play in the NHL. The quotes I've found about his hockey intelligence make me think he'll definitely be able to hand at the very least 3rd pairing duties.

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10-31-2012, 03:42 PM
  #152
seventieslord
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I know that's not exactly what you were saying, but it's often the fate of guys who played two positions relatively equally.

North American amateurs are the hardest to gauge and Mayasich did have a legitimate reason he never had NHL offers as he was in the ROTC and face two years of military commitments before he could play in the NHL. The quotes I've found about his hockey intelligence make me think he'll definitely be able to hand at the very least 3rd pairing duties.
How much D did he play? that was one thing about him that made him intriguing, that he had pretty good offensive stats internationally, and the one time he played D, he was the best defenseman there. (kind of a Tom Anderson thing) - but as far as I remember, that was his only tournament played as a defenseman. Am I incorrect?

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10-31-2012, 03:51 PM
  #153
Mike Farkas
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Well, Semin was going to be my pick here...that's pretty disappointing. I had a nice little defense planned out for him...

The last pick of the round, Buffalo selects Brian Gionta, RW


Gionta (left) will win another race to a puck

Small but very hard working two-way winger that has a terrific shot, Gionta has exploded since the lockout. His 48-goal season is certainly an anomaly, but he had completed seven consecutive 20-goal seasons (and would have been due for an 8th had a serious injury not derailed his 2011-12 campaign). Industrious and playing way bigger than his size, Gionta won the Stanley Cup in 2003 with New Jersey and has only been a minus player twice in his career (plus-61 in whole). A member of the 2006 Olympic team, Gionta plays a pretty fearless game and can be a thorn in the side of many bigger defensemen - notably Zdeno Chara, who he has drawn the ire of on many occasions...

The first pick of the following round, Buffalo selects Arthur Moore, D



A four-time Stanley Cup champion in the early 1900's with the famed Silver Seven, Arthur Moore was known for outstanding defensive abilities while paired with Harvey Pulford. A rather rugged, defensive defenseman (before such a term was really used), Moore covered a lot of ground with his excellent skating. He was named a First-Team All-Star in 1905.

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10-31-2012, 03:51 PM
  #154
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How much D did he play? that was one thing about him that made him intriguing, that he had pretty good offensive stats internationally, and the one time he played D, he was the best defenseman there. (kind of a Tom Anderson thing) - but as far as I remember, that was his only tournament played as a defenseman. Am I incorrect?
He did play defence for his amateur team. I think he played defence in the 1960 Olympics and the 61, 62, 66, and 69 World Championships.

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10-31-2012, 03:54 PM
  #155
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Barracuudas select, Paul Martin, D.


Last edited by seventieslord: 10-31-2012 at 04:06 PM.
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10-31-2012, 04:10 PM
  #156
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The Macon Whoopee select Mike Murphy, RW


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10-31-2012, 04:19 PM
  #157
seventieslord
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hedberg View Post
He did play defence for his amateur team. I think he played defence in the 1960 Olympics and the 61, 62, 66, and 69 World Championships.
OK. If thatís true, that is news to me, and it changes things a lot. Iíll say one thing, there was a big change in his offensive stats:

56-58: 12 GP, 20 Pts (1.75)
60-69: 34 GP, 24 pts (0.71) , just 0.44 if you exclude his outstanding 1961.

As for amateur team, are you referring to Green Bay Bobcats (1962-1968)? His scoring stats indicate this is possible as he was not among the leading scorers on his team. In college (51-55) he was definitely a forward, as he was leading the circuit in goals and points.

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10-31-2012, 04:20 PM
  #158
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Originally Posted by tarheelhockey View Post
The Macon Whoopee select Mike Murphy, RW

What's that line Dreakmur uses? Die in a fire?

He was our #1 choice for a 3rd line RW, plus I was still gonna try to see if we wanted him to complement Prospal/Bullard on the 1st line. Guess not.

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10-31-2012, 04:20 PM
  #159
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The first pick of the following round, Buffalo selects Arthur Moore, D



A four-time Stanley Cup champion in the early 1900's with the famed Silver Seven, Arthur Moore was known for outstanding defensive abilities while paired with Harvey Pulford. A rather rugged, defensive defenseman (before such a term was really used), Moore covered a lot of ground with his excellent skating. He was named a First-Team All-Star in 1905.
Art Moore replaced Harvey Pulford as captain during the Silver Seven dynasty days. Pulford didn't like it, so he tried to beat Moore up... but Moore apparently handed him a beating

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10-31-2012, 04:26 PM
  #160
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Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post
Art Moore replaced Harvey Pulford as captain during the Silver Seven dynasty days. Pulford didn't like it, so he tried to beat Moore up... but Moore apparently handed him a beating
that's how they voted for team captain back then.

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10-31-2012, 04:40 PM
  #161
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that's how they voted for team captain back then.
Actually, from what I read, there were to factions on the team - Alf Smith and Harvey Pulford. In an attempt to bring the whole team back together, At Moore was named.

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10-31-2012, 04:47 PM
  #162
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I thought he played with those guys most often, too, in which case I'd 100% agree that his TOI is not truly indicative of his ability. (except Dreakmur is saying otherwise, so I'm not sure now) Plus, his minutes in Toronto were indicative of a bad team. IMO, He has ranged from a low end #1, to a mid-grade #2 in his career, which is still nice. It's the low career GP thanks to his late start that are kinda holding him back.

He's underrated though. I took him quite late last year and no one really seemed to care about the pick either way. I, of course, thought it was great.

As for Pronger/Niedermayer, since the minutes of these three players added up to about 81, and Pronger/Niedermayer were not partners, doesn't this mean Beauchemin had to be playing about half of his ES time (at least) with one of them?
A couple of things:
- The big gap between Beauchemin's TOI and the number 4 guy on that Anaheim team. Regardless of what HHOFers were also playing on his team, the Ducks still decided to give him 25+ of the 65 minutes or so that was left for their bottom 4 defensemen. That's a big chunk. If the thinking was "Niedermayer's partner by necessity plays 25 minutes", why wouldn't Pronger have a similar effect on someone else?
- The Leafs were awful defensively while Beauchemin was there, but it wasn't like he played for an expansion type roster bereft of (supposedly) capable veterans. Looking through his game logs, he almost never played a low-minute game with the Leafs - had they felt he was truly struggling as their acting #1D (as opposed to doing what he could in front of those awful goalies), he could have easily been benched in favour of someone like Kaberle, or a few vets who I don't care to check whether they've been drafted.

But I get the impression that people here have a pretty balanced view of him.

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10-31-2012, 06:06 PM
  #163
Mike Farkas
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The current guys are more my speed right now, so from my notes that I'm currently trying to rebuld from a hard drive malfunction a year ago...

Francois Beauchemin - Defensive-minded defenseman that handles a lot of tough minutes. Required and mostly able to do heavy lifting defensively. Works especially well when sheltering a transitional defenseman that can skate really well with and without the puck. When in charge of "leading" a pairing, some of his flaws become a bit more evident and his game becomes uneven. Is a heavy hitter and noted shot blocker. His pound-for-pound toughness is exceptional and will drop the gloves if necessary, but he's far from a heavyweight. Has a very heavy point shot, but it can take him some time to get it off. Scores a lot of goals by jumping into the play and sneaking into the backdoor or the high slot. His vision with the puck is not very high and he's better off making safer passes as he can be erratic with the puck at times. Further handling of the puck is somewhat prohibited by his average skating. Has a very low center of gravity and can get good leverage in board battles and open-ice hits. His transition and turns are rough at times and he's susceptible to getting beat wide with speed more than most shutdown players because of his wide stance and somewhat choppy skating.

Career: #2/#3 Defensive defenseman, like a better, more consistent version of Rostislav Klesla


Of note, Carlyle rides his horses to exhaustion. Beauchemin was a major part of that, I don't recall those bottom pairing guys getting any time at all during the regular season, much less the playoffs in 2007...that's a compliment to Beauch, they had time to fix that if they needed to and they didn't think of it.


Last edited by Mike Farkas: 10-31-2012 at 06:13 PM.
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10-31-2012, 11:57 PM
  #164
seventieslord
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Engine View Post
A couple of things:
- The big gap between Beauchemin's TOI and the number 4 guy on that Anaheim team. Regardless of what HHOFers were also playing on his team, the Ducks still decided to give him 25+ of the 65 minutes or so that was left for their bottom 4 defensemen. That's a big chunk. If the thinking was "Niedermayer's partner by necessity plays 25 minutes", why wouldn't Pronger have a similar effect on someone else?
- The Leafs were awful defensively while Beauchemin was there, but it wasn't like he played for an expansion type roster bereft of (supposedly) capable veterans. Looking through his game logs, he almost never played a low-minute game with the Leafs - had they felt he was truly struggling as their acting #1D (as opposed to doing what he could in front of those awful goalies), he could have easily been benched in favour of someone like Kaberle, or a few vets who I don't care to check whether they've been drafted.

But I get the impression that people here have a pretty balanced view of him.
Just to clarify, I think it's possible that someone's TOI could lie to us if they always played with a superior player that made their minutes "easier" on them. But there's still only so much that they can lie. Beauchemin is clearly a guy whose coaches have all seen fit to give him big minutes, Niedermayer or not.

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11-01-2012, 12:01 AM
  #165
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I will pick (for the first time legitimately after VanI and I selected him after being already picked in the AA draft last) LW/D Herbert Russell

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11-01-2012, 12:02 AM
  #166
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I will pick (for the first time legitimately after VanI and I selected him after being already picked in the AA draft last) LW/D Herbert Russell
You know what I'm gonna say...

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11-01-2012, 12:26 AM
  #167
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Regina selects Leo Reise, Sr., D
Reise had some excellent offensive numbers and appears to have been pretty physical, too. He lasted 10 years at the top level and was a 3-time all-star in the senior leagues before that, and that's back when being a senior star was meaningful.


Last edited by seventieslord: 11-01-2012 at 10:32 AM.
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11-01-2012, 12:39 AM
  #168
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Regina selects Leo Reise, Sr.

Reise had some excellent offensive numbers and appears to have been pretty physical, too. He lasted 10 years at the top level and was a 3-time all-star in the senior leagues before that, and that's back when being a senior star was meaningful.
Most of the contemporary reports about him talk about a big and powerful guy who played steady and reiable defensive hockey. The scoresheers, on the other hand, show that he was a very consistent offensive producer.

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11-01-2012, 01:06 AM
  #169
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You know what I'm gonna say...
The Fort Saskatchewan Traders - seventieslord spare all-stars

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11-01-2012, 06:13 AM
  #170
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St.John's selects Goalie Earl Robertson



Robertson may have had a short NHL career but he was the 5th winnignest goalie in the NHL during his career (#1 among undrafteds up to this point).

For more on Robertson click the following link:

http://redwingslegends.blogspot.ca/2...robertson.html

Next has been pmed.

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11-01-2012, 08:39 AM
  #171
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With our skipped pick we select, Colin White, D


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11-01-2012, 10:43 AM
  #172
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BBS's time was up 2 hours ago. Messaging chaosrevolver.

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11-01-2012, 11:47 AM
  #173
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Round 4 Comments:

Rick Smith: Wasn't that utilized a defenseman (20.8 minutes for 647 games), but typically played for awesome teams, so he's likely better than those numbers. Seems like a pretty solid guy.

Francois Beauchemin: Based on discussions, I think we're all fairly realistic about where he stands.

Kent Douglas: Based on discussions, I think we're all pretty confused about where he stands. I say "good AAA top pairing player" is a good estimate, plus or minus a couple hundred picks (more likely plus)

Lyle Odelein: Like Jason Smith in the MLD, the kind of guy you want on your 3rd pairing but whom you'll draft early to make sure you get him. Good leader with 186 career fights. A career 19 minute guy - which is less than most all-around defensemen being taken now, but more than enough to prove he's a good player for a tough guy.

Keith Brown: A 20.6 minute, 900 game player. But I have him in the same tier as some of the 900 game, 22 minute players out there because he had to share his minutes with Doug Wilson and Bob Murray. He was actually their #1 defenseman a few times. [b](side note: for 11 consecutive seasons, 1980-1990, Murray, Wilson and Brown were all teammates. this has to be a record, right? three defensemen patrolling the same blueline for 11 consecutive seasons.)

Fred Glover: I wish there was a way to make a reasonable assessment about what kind of numbers he could have put up in the NHL, because ultimately that's where his value as a player comes from.

John Mayasich: Hedberg, where did you see he played D from 1961 onwards? If we can verify this, he's definitely a legit defensemen here since he has the added backup to go with his awesome 1961 tournament. (1960s international competition was really ramping up)

Dave Creighton: Not a bad pick. I still see two better ones from the pre-expansion era though. Certainly they produced better, though I can't vouch for their all-around games, or for Creighton's.

Hal Winkler: You probably got the #2 goalie in the draft. I would have recommended him to Dreakmur if we were close to taking a goalie.

Alex Semin: Maybe the most talented winger in the draft. That doesn't mean the best, as his demonstrated production doesn't match his talent. But just based on 6 peak percentage scores, he was right there at about 7th or 8th for wingers for me heading into the draft, and Dreakmur and I noticed that this was based on only about 5 seasons worth of games, meaning on a per-game level he might be the most prolific winger here (but will miss some games).

Brian Gionta: I think it was a little early for him. Courageous little guy, but the production just isn't at the level of most of the other guys being taken right now. Based on percentage scores, he's about 20-30% behind a lot of other wingers getting taken now. If we credit him with a full 2007 and 2010, I think there's still a dozen better producers out there for the wing. That's not to say I think we should just select all players in order of production, but if we're going to take a guy with lower offensive potential than others available, it should hopefully be because he can be the defensive or physical presence for a line. I don't think Gionta is that.

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11-01-2012, 12:18 PM
  #174
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Yeah, I knew that Gionta was going a little bit early, but if I've said it once, I've said it a thousand times, I'm not a big stats guy. I usually put teams together in a manner that I think would make sense on the ice while respecting the process of these things. If I'm going to use John Cullen as one of the top-2 centers, I need to put him in a comfortable situation. His best year came with Mark Recchi...a small, but fiery little right winger that skates well and does surprisingly good board work with a terrific scorer's touch, a player very well-versed in amplifying the abilities of a playmaking center...sounds exactly like Brian Gionta to me, right? ...and personally, I like Gionta's two-way ability. Not elite, but very capable. I couldn't find a more perfect winger for Cullen, so if one exists, I just flat out didn't know it...

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11-01-2012, 01:05 PM
  #175
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Yeah, I knew that Gionta was going a little bit early,
He was about to go 2 picks later

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