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Friedman Speculates on Teams Believed to be Hardliners

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Old
10-31-2012, 03:47 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by Bourne Endeavor View Post
Actually, no. If I recall either Philly or New Jersey has the 2014 all-star reserved and another team has it in 2015. Don't quote me on the specific teams but I certain TSN mentioned it would be a while before Columbus had a chance to host the all-star game again.

And since the Canucks were brought up. I imagine there is a sense of indifference for them. While a lost season impacts their cup chances. The team has been banged up a little too much. Right now we are looking to have Kesler back when the season starts, be it in January or October 2013.
Are you thinking of the draft? NJ has it in 2013 and Philadelphia has it in 2014.

They haven't announced the location of any future ASGs yet - and IIRC they only announced Columbus at last year's ASG.

If the players go to the 2014 Olympics then there won't be an ASG that year.

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10-31-2012, 03:51 PM
  #27
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Sounds like total BS. Clearly the NHL needs to contract and just have 12 teams in Toronto.

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10-31-2012, 03:52 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by cutchemist42 View Post
So basically, mostly the markets Gary was responsible for introducing to the league, and the 1 team he has owned for 3 years......
Anaheim -- awarded before Bettman joined league
Columbus -- awarded during Bettman's tenure
Florida -- awarded before Bettman joined league
Islanders -- 1972, dude
Phoenix -- moved during Bettman's tenure
St. Louis -- 1967
Washington -- 1976
Dallas -- moved during Bettman's tenure


That list includes 1 team awarded during Bettman's tenure and 2 that moved in that time period. The other 5 teams were all added before Bettman joined the league -- 3 of them before 1980. So, your statement doesn't even come close to being true.

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10-31-2012, 03:58 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bourne Endeavor View Post
Actually, no. If I recall either Philly or New Jersey has the 2014 all-star reserved and another team has it in 2015. Don't quote me on the specific teams but I certain TSN mentioned it would be a while before Columbus had a chance to host the all-star game again.
In both cases where an ASG was cancelled, the host team was awarded the second subsequent ASG. The next years ASG had already been awarded(*).

The Sharks lost the 1995 ASG due to the '94-'95 Lockout - they got the game back in 1997.

The Thrashers lost the 2005 ASG due to the '04-'05 Lockout - they got the game back in 2008 (there was no ASG in 2006 due to the Olympic Shutdown).

I don't believe the 2014 ASG was awarded - under the expired CBA there was no ASG in Olympic years.

(*) edit: the 2007 ASG in Dallas was announced after the Lockout (Jan 2006). I haven't found the date when the 1996 ASG in Boston was announced.


Last edited by kdb209: 10-31-2012 at 04:07 PM.
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Old
10-31-2012, 03:58 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by rt View Post
Phoenix? haha. That right there should kill any credibility this article has. How can Phoenix have "hardline" owners? Haha. We have NO OWNERS.
Is Bettman not the most hardline owner of them all?

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Old
10-31-2012, 04:01 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by CHill Seeker View Post
if this is true, Frankly it's a joke. Teams like the Habs, Leafs, NYR, Canucks, etc should be in positions of power instead of being held hostage..apologies for my frustration...

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/opin...-refrains.html


MOD: Title changed to say "speculates" vs "outs" since that's a bit misleading
Easy to criticize someone when its not YOUR millions that you are losing. Take the caps for example. Lincoln Holdings have lost their ***** owning the caps.

If every team that lost money shut down there wouldnt be an NHL as we know it.

Teams being held hostage.... Really?

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10-31-2012, 04:03 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by cutchemist42 View Post
So basically, mostly the markets Gary was responsible for introducing to the league, and the 1 team he has owned for 3 years......
And the Dallas move was signed off on less than six weeks into his tenure.

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10-31-2012, 04:03 PM
  #33
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Here lets get some facts in this owner bashing thread

http://www.dallasnews.com/sports/dal...on-a-week-.ece


Report: Stars continue to 'bleed money,' losing $1 million a week




JON MACHOTA

Special contributor to SportsDayDFW.com

Published: 19 July 2011 04:10 PM

The Dallas Stars are losing money at an alarming rate according to Forbes.com writer Mike Ozanian.

Ozanian wrote Tuesday that a source says large debt and interest payments are resulting in a $1 million a week loss for the franchise.

“While the guys putting the contract together are haggling over where to put commas the team continues to bleed money,” the source said. “They need to ask themselves is it worth all the extra time they are taking because losses are growing every day.”

Read more on the story here.

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Old
10-31-2012, 04:07 PM
  #34
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I can see Columbus not wanting to settle for financial reasons. But I CAN"T see Columbus in a position of power that would have more influence over Bettman then guys like Jacobs and Snider.

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Old
10-31-2012, 04:07 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by WinterEmpire View Post
Wait, what does the NHL gain PR wise by having this information revealed? If anything it draws more hate towards those teams and owners.
PR may have been the wrong term. The players would be the intended audience, the league hoping that a rumoured threat of a new hardline negotiating stance would scare enough of them to put pressure on Fehr to get a deal done. I doubt it would work, but Friedman's suggesting it may have in the NBA.

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10-31-2012, 04:08 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Master Shake View Post
Here lets get some facts in this owner bashing thread
If you say so...

Quote:
Since Teachers backed former owner Steve Stavro in a 1994 court fight to gain control of MLG Holdings, the valuation of the company has grown to an estimated $1.7-billion from $180-million in spite of the fact that on the fields of play, MLSE's teams are persistent, inveterate losers. The company that Peddie runs on behalf of Teachers' produces rivers of revenue - about $500-million annually, according to a source close to the company.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...6364/?page=all

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Old
10-31-2012, 04:09 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Master Shake View Post
Here lets get some facts in this owner bashing thread

http://www.dallasnews.com/sports/dal...on-a-week-.ece


Report: Stars continue to 'bleed money,' losing $1 million a week


JON MACHOTA

Special contributor to SportsDayDFW.com

Published: 19 July 2011 04:10 PM

The Dallas Stars are losing money at an alarming rate according to Forbes.com writer Mike Ozanian.

Ozanian wrote Tuesday that a source says large debt and interest payments are resulting in a $1 million a week loss for the franchise.

“While the guys putting the contract together are haggling over where to put commas the team continues to bleed money,” the source said. “They need to ask themselves is it worth all the extra time they are taking because losses are growing every day.”

Read more on the story here.


Wasn't most of that debt erased when the team emerged from bankruptcy?

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10-31-2012, 04:11 PM
  #38
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So the teams that has most gain from getting costs down are the hardliners for cutting costs down. Shocking.

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Old
10-31-2012, 04:17 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by htpwn View Post
Hey wow, a few teams out of 30 are making money. WOOHOO. Meanwhile the others are losing huge sums.

In a perfect world Id love to see full revenue sharing among owners. But that isnt going to happen.

BTW MLSE owns alot more than just the Leafs

The fact is, the players make WAAAAAAAAAAAY too much money. NHL players should NOT be making 4,5,6,8,9 million a year. Its ludicrous.

This is like saying if McDonalds in Beverly Hills makes millions pays their employees 20 bucks an hour that the McDonalds everywhere else should also.

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Old
10-31-2012, 04:20 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Master Shake View Post
Here lets get some facts in this owner bashing thread

http://www.dallasnews.com/sports/dal...on-a-week-.ece


Report: Stars continue to 'bleed money,' losing $1 million a week


JON MACHOTA

Special contributor to SportsDayDFW.com

Published: 19 July 2011 04:10 PM

The Dallas Stars are losing money at an alarming rate according to Forbes.com writer Mike Ozanian.

Ozanian wrote Tuesday that a source says large debt and interest payments are resulting in a $1 million a week loss for the franchise.

“While the guys putting the contract together are haggling over where to put commas the team continues to bleed money,” the source said. “They need to ask themselves is it worth all the extra time they are taking because losses are growing every day.”

Read more on the story here.
Note that those losses were due to large debt payments run up by Hicks prior to and during the Hicks Sports Group's bankruptcy.

AIUI, Gagliardi's purchase in BK significantly reduced the teams debt from ~$290M to ~$100M - Hick's lenders took significant haircuts.

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Old
10-31-2012, 04:44 PM
  #41
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Friedman is usually bang on with his columns.

Sure, it's speculation, but based on sources that he clearly has and from someone who is in the best position to speculate.

But how does Phoenix factor into things? Does Bettman also wear the hat of owner?

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Old
10-31-2012, 04:48 PM
  #42
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I'll save Friedman the time -- every team that lost money last year is one of the "hardliners".

If I was an owner losing money, I wouldn't accept anything less than a true 50-50 split in a very timely fashion and I would let that be known to Bettman.

If you're losing money anyway, what's the huge rush to get back on the ice? You've already lost the first two months of the season and probably the Winter Classic too, might as well get a proper deal done that sees you through the next 8+ years of business at this point.

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10-31-2012, 04:49 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CHill Seeker View Post
if this is true, Frankly it's a joke. Teams like the Habs, Leafs, NYR, Canucks, etc should be in positions of power instead of being held hostage..apologies for my frustration...

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/opin...-refrains.html


MOD: Title changed to say "speculates" vs "outs" since that's a bit misleading
I like Friedman's work and respect him. I have to believe the "hardliners" include the Bruins' Jacobs, Flyers' Snider and Wild's Leopold because they seem to be the negotiating committee and are on the Executive committee as well.

I find it hard to believe Anaheim, Florida, Columbus, St. Louis or Phoenix have much power.

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10-31-2012, 04:54 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Blueline Bomber View Post
Why should the teams that aren't really losing money annually have the power to decide how to handle a situation where many teams ARE losing money annually?
Because those teams are the backbone of the league. They should make the rules, and everyone else should fall in line.

The problem is you have a commissioner who wants a 30+ team league, but he's in a sport that should be no more than a 24 team league.

The franchises that are the ones holding up a deal, or maybe better stated willing to wait forever for a new deal, are the same teams that will always be failures no matter what system they play under.

The sooner that is realized, the best for all involved.

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10-31-2012, 04:55 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by TaketheCannoli View Post
I like Friedman's work and respect him. I have to believe the "hardliners" include the Bruins' Jacobs, Flyers' Snider and Wild's Leopold because they seem to be the negotiating committee and are on the Executive committee as well.

I find it hard to believe Anaheim, Florida, Columbus, St. Louis or Phoenix have much power.
If you read on, you'd see that both the Flyers and the Wild situations were addressed later in the column.

Snider might be a hardliner, but Comcast owns the majority of the team, and its chairman is not pleased.

Thing with Leopold is that the way he structured the contracts, he's paying them lockout or not. And the Wild is not a money losing team regardless.

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10-31-2012, 04:55 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TaketheCannoli View Post
I like Friedman's work and respect him. I have to believe the "hardliners" include the Bruins' Jacobs, Flyers' Snider and Wild's Leopold because they seem to be the negotiating committee and are on the Executive committee as well.

I find it hard to believe Anaheim, Florida, Columbus, St. Louis or Phoenix have much power.
I would have to think that Leopold is the moderate of the executive committe. Spending 24 million on two players was really about peaking interest in the wild and putting butts in the seats. Thats hard to do when you lock out the two players you just paid 10 million each.

He probably is in line with moderates who are looking for a fair deal. Keep in mind fair is from the owners perspective.

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10-31-2012, 04:56 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
Pure speculation by the author, but if true I have a suggestion for the owners that want to play.

SHARE MORE OF YOUR REVENUE!!! That is if the big revenue teams are the teams that want to play ASAP.
Yes, share with the teams that are failures.

Share players, and scouting information, oh and coaching strategies.

In fact, screw playing the games. Everyone should just take turns winning the Cup every year.

No cap, no revenue sharing, no problems.

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Old
10-31-2012, 04:57 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Soundwave View Post
I'll save Friedman the time -- every team that lost money last year is one of the "hardliners".

If I was an owner losing money, I wouldn't accept anything less than a true 50-50 split in a very timely fashion and I would let that be known to Bettman.

If you're losing money anyway, what's the huge rush to get back on the ice? You've already lost the first two months of the season and probably the Winter Classic too, might as well get a proper deal done that sees you through the next 8+ years of business at this point.
Yeah but depending on who you talk to, either 10 teams or 20 teams lost money last year, so the truth is obviously somewhere in the middle.

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Old
10-31-2012, 04:58 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by The CyNick View Post
Because those teams are the backbone of the league. They should make the rules, and everyone else should fall in line.

The problem is you have a commissioner who wants a 30+ team league, but he's in a sport that should be no more than a 24 team league.

The franchises that are the ones holding up a deal, or maybe better stated willing to wait forever for a new deal, are the same teams that will always be failures no matter what system they play under.

The sooner that is realized, the best for all involved.
I think people want to paint it like this, but I don't think this is actually what's happening, despite some members in the media trying to push this angle.

If I'm Montreal or Toronto, I'm not going to die if there's no season this year.

When ever the NHL resumes, they know their arena will be full again, and neither even made the playoffs last year so a year of development for their younger players will probably only help.

I don't think Toronto/Montreal or some of the other big teams are naive enough to not understand that there has to be a CBA that works for everyone, otherwise it's going to be Toronto/Montreal ending up holding the tab for Phoenix/Columbus, etc.

Better to get a favorable CBA now than have to bail out other teams constantly for 8 years.

I don't think there are very many owners who are so desperate to play a 60-game season that they'd be willing to accept a CBA that doesn't give them true 50-50 revenue split for the next 8 years.

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Old
10-31-2012, 05:00 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by CHill Seeker View Post
if this is true, Frankly it's a joke. Teams like the Habs, Leafs, NYR, Canucks, etc should be in positions of power instead of being held hostage..apologies for my frustration...

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/opin...-refrains.html


MOD: Title changed to say "speculates" vs "outs" since that's a bit misleading
Canucks have 0 weight to throw around. Bettman probably hates Aquilini.

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