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The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, and NHL revenues.

Hamilton or Toronto2/Markham

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Hamilton 107 47.56%
GTA2/Markham 118 52.44%
Voters: 225. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
10-30-2012, 02:27 PM
  #176
JMROWE
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I voted for Hamilton & it is not because I am from Hamilton it is because it is because 1. Hamilton is a centralized location with 2 major highways running through the city the QEW. that runs east to the GTA. & south to the Niagara Region & the 403 that runs through the Hamilton area to Southwestern Ontario 2. Hamilton will be the path of least resiestance for an NHL. team because MLSE. will do anything to make sure Markham dose not get an NHL. team if they build that arena & if that means alowing an NHL. team in Hamilton to stop them they will do it 3. Hamilton just plain deserves an NHL. team more than Markham .

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10-30-2012, 02:35 PM
  #177
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A 2nd NHL. team in southern Ontario has to be a regional team that repersents the rest of southern ontario just not the GTA. & Hamilton is the right fit for a regional NHL. team because of its centrelized location & if you don't belive me look at a map & you will see that Hamilton is centralized location & Markham is not .

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Old
10-30-2012, 04:58 PM
  #178
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamilton Tigers View Post
Good news. Improved service is coming. From today...

http://www.thespec.com/news/local/ar...-deck-for-2015
Yep. It's been in the works for a while. The current Hamilton GO Centre can only host limited service due to the 117-year-old 1-track tunnel under Hunter Street and the corresponding freight movement that runs through it (CP owns the tracks, their trains get priority). The cost to expanding or rebuilding it is prohibitive, so GO has turned their attention to the CN line further south.

The new station, as article mentions, will host hourly service while the GO Centre will continue to serve rush hour trains (as an aside, its unfortunate they didn't purchase the 1923 CNR station across the site, which is currently being used as a banquet hall). All in all, a big positive for Hamilton though still a long way to go until Copps is made a transit-friendly destination.

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10-30-2012, 05:17 PM
  #179
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I want to vote for Hamilton. The fans got their hopes dashed with all the RIM attempts to land a team there.

However, Markham just makes so much more sense geographically, and the impact of having a team in Markham as opposed to Hamilton would be more beneficial for the NHL owners.

Like a previous poster mentioned, Pegula just recently bought the Sabres, and during that time that the NHL was trying to lure in Pegula, they were staunchly protecting their interests in the region from the attempts of RIM's Jim Balsillie to plant a team in Hamilton.

The NHL obviously feels that they need to protect the Sabres, and have the ability to open the market in Markham without creating too negative an impact on the Leafs, although more importantly (due to their fragility) the Senators.

I'm not saying the Sens are a weak team, just that by contrast, they are weaker than the Leafs in terms of fans and (more importantly, ticket sales).

The underlying notion here is that the Sabres are clearly a much more fragile market than the Senators.

Markham is the more sensible option in terms of the all important dollar, but Hamilton is the more empathic option.

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10-30-2012, 05:18 PM
  #180
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London area is by far a better option than Markham. They are so passionate about the OHL there and with all the surrounding cities they'd garner a ton of attention.

Markham is like Chinatown and doesn't have the already existing hockey market

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10-30-2012, 05:47 PM
  #181
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Originally Posted by TieClark View Post
London area is by far a better option than Markham. They are so passionate about the OHL there and with all the surrounding cities they'd garner a ton of attention.

Markham is like Chinatown and doesn't have the already existing hockey market
Markham or London?

Can we split the difference?


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10-31-2012, 05:39 PM
  #182
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Originally Posted by indigobuffalo View Post
However, Markham just makes so much more sense geographically, .
care to explicate? you dont get much better location than Hamilton for SO.. maybe Milton but its a small city, much like Markham

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10-31-2012, 05:51 PM
  #183
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Originally Posted by Ryan34222 View Post
care to explicate? you dont get much better location than Hamilton for SO.. maybe Milton but its a small city, much like Markham
How is Hamilton better than Markham for hockey fans in S. Ontario, like the ones from Barrie, Orillia, Huntsville, Parrysound, Sudbury, Northbay........

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10-31-2012, 06:06 PM
  #184
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The best place in all of North America for another NHL franchise is downtown Toronto. Failing that, somewhere in Toronto. Failing that somewhere in the GTA.

There's just no debate to be had. You want a team where there are people with the money and the desire to attend games.

Hamilton is a fine market, but its no on the level of Toronto. Its hilarious reading some of the posts in this thread. Hamilton, London, LOL!!

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10-31-2012, 06:08 PM
  #185
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Originally Posted by Ryan34222 View Post
care to explicate? you dont get much better location than Hamilton for SO.. maybe Milton but its a small city, much like Markham
... I dont understand that one either. Markham is like the 4th largest city basically within the GTA itself behind Brampton & Mississuaga, with a population of app 300,000 & change, of which, nearly 65% are of Chinese & South Asian origin. It was only incorporated as a "City" from "Town" status this past July. Its a former agricultural area, a collection of quaint little villages & crossroads named after Mills (Vinegar Hill, Milliken Mills etc) that have long since disappeared and is now just a homogeneous suburban sprawl of townhomes, condo's & tract houses; McMansions. Massive T&T Supermarket, Pacific Mall. Everything practically brand new. No real sense of an identity of its own. What's going on with the arena project, the obvious aspirations to secure a franchise I call "Factory Hockey". People think the ACC is "cold, plastic, without soul", well, wait'll they get a load of Markham. Feel like Bowie in The Man Who Fell to Earth.


Last edited by Killion: 10-31-2012 at 06:14 PM.
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10-31-2012, 06:14 PM
  #186
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Originally Posted by Hamilton Tigers View Post
Markham or London?

Can we split the difference?

From the map Kitchener or London seems more centrally located than Hamilton. I know these two cities don't have the arena and population but in a prefect world it would be one of these two cities as they do not infringe on the territorial rights of Toronto or Buffalo.

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10-31-2012, 06:26 PM
  #187
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Originally Posted by Stix and Stones View Post
How is Hamilton better than Markham for hockey fans in S. Ontario, like the ones from Barrie, Orillia, Huntsville, Parrysound, Sudbury, Northbay........
funny. and Owen Sound would complain if Markham got a team lol
obviously some cities wont be served by a team in either Markham and Hamilton..

going by population its Hamilton.. Minus the GTA (which Ham/Mar would draw from) theres more folk in the Hamilton area than Markham.. unless of course you think Orillia Huntsville ParrySound Sudbury are going to have a population boom over next few years?

edit: nice try sir, almost got that by me. Sudbury/Huntsville's not in Southern Ontario


Last edited by Ryan34222: 10-31-2012 at 06:41 PM.
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10-31-2012, 06:37 PM
  #188
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Originally Posted by Killion View Post
... I dont understand that one either. Markham is like the 4th largest city basically within the GTA itself behind Brampton & Mississuaga, with a population of app 300,000 & change, of which, nearly 65% are of Chinese & South Asian origin. It was only incorporated as a "City" from "Town" status this past July. Its a former agricultural area, a collection of quaint little villages & crossroads named after Mills (Vinegar Hill, Milliken Mills etc) that have long since disappeared and is now just a homogeneous suburban sprawl of townhomes, condo's & tract houses; McMansions. Massive T&T Supermarket, Pacific Mall. Everything practically brand new. No real sense of an identity of its own. What's going on with the arena project, the obvious aspirations to secure a franchise I call "Factory Hockey". People think the ACC is "cold, plastic, without soul", well, wait'll they get a load of Markham. Feel like Bowie in The Man Who Fell to Earth.
ladies and gentlemen.. YOUR TORONTO SUBURBS lol their logo being indentical townhomes..

i'll give Markham some credit.. lots o bucks there but does that money like hockey

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10-31-2012, 06:39 PM
  #189
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Originally Posted by Ryan34222 View Post
funny. and Owen Sound would complain if Markham got a team lol
obviously some cities wont be served by a team in either Markham and Hamilton..

going by population its Hamilton.. Minus the GTA (which Ham/Mar would draw from) theres more folk in the Hamilton area than Markham.. unless of course you think Orillia Huntsville ParrySound Sudbury are going to have a population boom over next few years?
Yeah but all those Hamiltonians are diehard Sabre fans

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10-31-2012, 06:45 PM
  #190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Faidh ar Rud Eigin View Post
Markham is inherintely the better option. Two big reasons, one, Markham only has to go through one team, one that likely relinquished territorial rights for a certain time period. Secondly, it leaves the Western goldenhorse shoe region open for the next wave of expansion, a team in Hamilton would all but crush any chance of that.
No. It will be like Ottawa/Montreal and Quebec who all share a
broadcast area.

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10-31-2012, 06:46 PM
  #191
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Originally Posted by Tyrolean View Post
From the map Kitchener or London seems more centrally located than Hamilton. I know these two cities don't have the arena and population but in a prefect world it would be one of these two cities as they do not infringe on the territorial rights of Toronto or Buffalo.
the difference between London and Markham is London? some strange math you got there j/k

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10-31-2012, 06:47 PM
  #192
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Yeah but all those Hamiltonians are diehard Sabre fans
how dare you sir..

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10-31-2012, 07:06 PM
  #193
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Originally Posted by Ryan34222 View Post
ladies and gentlemen.. YOUR TORONTO SUBURBS lol their logo being indentical townhomes..
... pretty much, and oddly, the teams colours all in the same red, white & blue pantones used by ReMax, "your friendly & independently owned & operated neighbourhood realtors".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stix and Stones View Post
Yeah but all those Hamiltonians are diehard Sabre fans
... sure. You could prolly count on your fingers & toes the number of Sabre fans in the Hammer. Theyve' done nothing to market themselves to Hamiltonians over the years and indeed, the "great rivalry" promised by the league and Imlach against the Leafs hasnt ever taken off with the exceptions of; the two franchises first game facing one another at the Gardens in November 1970. Punch receiving a 3 minute standing ovation from the crowd, his players, together for like 6 weeks, bludgeoning the Leafs 7-2. That was fun. Or the time the French Connection Line & the Sabres rolled into town in 75, annihilating the Buds by a score of 11-3. Fun? Wow. Then nothing until 1999 really, playoffs, and thats pretty much it. 2 highlight reel games if your a Sabres fan and some really rather mediocre playoff series over 42yrs.

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10-31-2012, 07:08 PM
  #194
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Originally Posted by Ryan34222 View Post
ladies and gentlemen.. YOUR TORONTO SUBURBS lol their logo being indentical townhomes..

i'll give Markham some credit.. lots o bucks there but does that money like hockey
Well, any post-war suburb really. The newer parts of Hamilton are no different.

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10-31-2012, 07:14 PM
  #195
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Originally Posted by Killion View Post
... pretty much, and oddly, the teams colours all in the same red, white & blue pantones used by ReMax, "your friendly & independently owned & operated neighbourhood realtors".



... sure. You could prolly count on your fingers & toes the number of Sabre fans in the Hammer. Theyve' done nothing to market themselves to Hamiltonians over the years and indeed, the "great rivalry" promised by the league and Imlach against the Leafs hasnt ever taken off with the exceptions of; the two franchises first game facing one another at the Gardens in November 1970. Punch receiving a 3 minute standing ovation from the crowd, his players, together for like 6 weeks, bludgeoning the Leafs 7-2. That was fun. Or the time the French Connection Line & the Sabres rolled into town in 75, annihilating the Buds by a score of 11-3. Fun? Wow. Then nothing until 1999 really, playoffs, and thats pretty much it. 2 highlight reel games if your a Sabres fan and some really rather mediocre playoff series over 42yrs.
Looks like a rivalry too me, well if any Sabre fans were around.


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10-31-2012, 09:34 PM
  #196
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Well, any post-war suburb really. The newer parts of Hamilton are no different.
Agreed. Difference being these are Hamiltons suburbs IN Hamilton as apposed to Toronto's Suburbs IN Markham.

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10-31-2012, 10:25 PM
  #197
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Originally Posted by Stix and Stones View Post
How is Hamilton better than Markham for hockey fans in S. Ontario, like the ones from Barrie, Orillia, Huntsville, Parrysound, Sudbury, Northbay........
Simple Hamilton is a centralized location & has 2 major highways running through the city the QEW.which gose east through the GTA. & south through the Niagara Region then you got the 403 that runs right through southwestern Ontario . Thoses 3 areas have a total population of 8 million people & when where talking about a 2nd NHL. team in southern Ontario you got to think Regional & Markham would not be regional team for southern ontario it would be another Toronto team that would only serve the GTA. whille a Hamilton NHL. team would serve the Hamilton area , GTA. , Niagara Region & southwestern Ontario .

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10-31-2012, 10:34 PM
  #198
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A 2nd NHL. team in southern Ontario has to be REGIONAL for the rest of Ontario just not the GTA.. Hamilton is the perfect fit for a regional NHL. team for southern Ontario because of its centralized location that can be reached by everyone .

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10-31-2012, 10:38 PM
  #199
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Originally Posted by JMROWE View Post
Simple Hamilton is a centralized location & has 2 major highways running through the city the QEW.which gose east through the GTA. & south through the Niagara Region then you got the 403 that runs right through southwestern Ontario . Thoses 3 areas have a total population of 8 million people & when where talking about a 2nd NHL. team in southern Ontario you got to think Regional & Markham would not be regional team for southern ontario it would be another Toronto team that would only serve the GTA. whille a Hamilton NHL. team would serve the Hamilton area , GTA. , Niagara Region & southwestern Ontario .
Exactly.. Most people suggesting Markham over Hamilton must not be familiar with the Golden Horseshoe. Hamilton will draw heavily from Niagara, Brantford, Guelph, and KWL and is still "closer" for Oakville and parts of Mississauga residents than Markham.

It is a far bigger market. Also, you have a better chance of converting Leafs fans the farther away from the city of Toronto you get..


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10-31-2012, 10:50 PM
  #200
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Exactly.. Most people suggesting Markham over Hamilton must not be familiar with the Golden Horseshoe. Hamilton will draw heavily from Niagara, Brantford, Guelph, and KWL and is still "closer" for Oakville and parts of Mississauga residents than Markham.

It is a far bigger market. Also, you have a better chance of converting Leafs fans the farther away from the city of Toronto you get..
There are a lot of anti-Leafs fans in the GTA. Some have latched on to random teams and would become fans of a new GTA team

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