HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

Tor - Phi

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
10-31-2012, 09:17 PM
  #1
SexyJoffreyLupul
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 416
vCash: 500
Tor - Phi

Tor: Jake Gardiner
Clarke MacArthur

Phi: Sean Couturier

Toronto gets a potential 1st line two way center to play with kessel and lupul while Philadelphia gets a Top 4 PMD with upside and a servicable second line LW to replace Couturier. Since Matt Carle left for Tampa Bay, Philadelphia needs a smooth skating PMD to replace him, and this fulfills both team's organizational needs.

Opinions?

SexyJoffreyLupul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-31-2012, 09:29 PM
  #2
Vankiller Whale
Maybe HE can score
 
Vankiller Whale's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 24,445
vCash: 5555
Value's there, but I don't see Philly fans willing to give up Couturier for anyone.

Vankiller Whale is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-31-2012, 09:38 PM
  #3
Roo Mad Bro
U havin a giggle m8?
 
Roo Mad Bro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: PA
Country: United States
Posts: 5,705
vCash: 500
Nope.

Would only want to trade Couturier for someone with #1D potential. Gardiner doesn't have the defensive aptitude to achieve that. Played soft minutes last year, too. I like Gardiner, but not THAT much.

Roo Mad Bro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-31-2012, 09:39 PM
  #4
SexyJoffreyLupul
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 416
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roo Mad Bro View Post
Nope.

Would only want to trade Couturier for someone with #1D potential. Gardiner doesn't have the defensive aptitude to achieve that. Played soft minutes last year, too. I like Gardiner, but not THAT much.
Then how about:

Morgan Reilly
Clarke MacArthur


Sean Couturier
Nicklas Grossmann

Leaf fans would probably not want this, but its pretty fair considering both organizational needs

SexyJoffreyLupul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-31-2012, 09:43 PM
  #5
TOGuy14
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,171
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roo Mad Bro View Post
Nope.

Would only want to trade Couturier for someone with #1D potential. Gardiner doesn't have the defensive aptitude to achieve that. Played soft minutes last year, too. I like Gardiner, but not THAT much.
Toronto says all the same things as you did, just replace all the defensive questions with offensive.

I see Couturier more like a Jordan Staal than a Jonathon Toews, he probably won't ever be #1C material, but he should be one hell of a shutdown #2C.

TOGuy14 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-31-2012, 09:45 PM
  #6
SexyJoffreyLupul
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 416
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TOGuy14 View Post
Toronto says all the same things as you did, just replace all the defensive questions with offensive.

I see Couturier more like a Jordan Staal than a Jonathon Toews, he probably won't ever be #1C material, but he should be one hell of a shutdown #2C.
He would be a 1C in toronto because of our need for a good defensive minded Center that can play first line minutes.

SexyJoffreyLupul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-31-2012, 09:59 PM
  #7
Roo Mad Bro
U havin a giggle m8?
 
Roo Mad Bro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: PA
Country: United States
Posts: 5,705
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TOGuy14 View Post
Toronto says all the same things as you did, just replace all the defensive questions with offensive.

I see Couturier more like a Jordan Staal than a Jonathon Toews, he probably won't ever be #1C material, but he should be one hell of a shutdown #2C.
And a Jordan Staal type of C is worth a bit more than a #2/2nd pairing D.

Roo Mad Bro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-31-2012, 10:05 PM
  #8
Vankiller Whale
Maybe HE can score
 
Vankiller Whale's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 24,445
vCash: 5555
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roo Mad Bro View Post
And a Jordan Staal type of C is worth a bit more than a #2/2nd pairing D.
Gardiner is currently at the calibre of a good 2nd pairing defenseman. Are you saying he won't improve at all? His max upside is probably someone like Yandle

Vankiller Whale is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-31-2012, 10:08 PM
  #9
Flyerfan52
Registered User
 
Flyerfan52's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 615
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SexyJoffreyLupul View Post
Tor: Jake Gardiner
Clarke MacArthur

Phi: Sean Couturier

Toronto gets a potential 1st line two way center to play with kessel and lupul while Philadelphia gets a Top 4 PMD with upside and a servicable second line LW to replace Couturier. Since Matt Carle left for Tampa Bay, Philadelphia needs a smooth skating PMD to replace him, and this fulfills both team's organizational needs.

Opinions?
Another possible 2-4 D (Flyers have those) & a "serviceable" LW doesn't replace what you acknowledge as a "potential" 2 way 1C. MacArthur was released by the Thrashers with few suitors so wasn't that much in demand.
Gardiner has 1 season so isn't as golden as believed.

For Couturier I'm sure the return would have to be higher. Especially when the cap hit on future UFA MacArthur alone exceeds the Couturier EL.

Would you see the offer the same if your team were the 1 trading the center?

Flyerfan52 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
10-31-2012, 10:11 PM
  #10
The Podium
Formerly chrisx101
 
The Podium's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 11,354
vCash: 657
MacArthur, a pending UFA, is worth very little if the season returns and nothing if it does not, not a good addition in a proposal

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roo Mad Bro View Post
Nope.

Would only want to trade Couturier for someone with #1D potential. Gardiner doesn't have the defensive aptitude to achieve that. Played soft minutes last year, too. I like Gardiner, but not THAT much.
Leafs feel the polar opposite. Would only deal Gardiner for a prospect with #1C potential and I personally don't see the offence in couturier for him to warrant being a true number 1, however he'd look great between Kessel and Lupul.

The Podium is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-31-2012, 10:14 PM
  #11
Philadelphia Ducks
#BringBackBob
 
Philadelphia Ducks's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Ontario, Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,336
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SexyJoffreyLupul View Post
Then how about:

Morgan Reilly
Clarke MacArthur


Sean Couturier
Nicklas Grossmann

Leaf fans would probably not want this, but its pretty fair considering both organizational needs
I'd rather do the first trade offered, and even then I'm not interested. I'd only move Couturier (with others) for a proven number 1 dman. Flyers have a terrible track record at developing young/prospect dmen, so while a player like Rielly/Gardiner is entertaining they really aren't enough to warrant moving Couturier imo. This isn't to say that value isn't fair or anything.

Philadelphia Ducks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-31-2012, 10:16 PM
  #12
SexyJoffreyLupul
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 416
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyerfan52 View Post
Another possible 2-4 D (Flyers have those) & a "serviceable" LW doesn't replace what you acknowledge as a "potential" 2 way 1C. MacArthur was released by the Thrashers with few suitors so wasn't that much in demand.
Gardiner has 1 season so isn't as golden as believed.

For Couturier I'm sure the return would have to be higher. Especially when the cap hit on future UFA MacArthur alone exceeds the Couturier EL.

Would you see the offer the same if your team were the 1 trading the center?
Flyers need a good Mobile offensive defensemen to replace Carle. Mac is a 20 goal scorer that is defensively responsible. Brayden Schenn, Brier, and Giroux will prevent Couturier from playing in the top 6 in the near future. Philly is in a win now stage, they can't afford to wait another 4 years for couturier to develop. While Gardiner is good right now and fills an organizational need. IMO i would do it.

Considering that i am willing to trade Gardiner, i don't think i am as biased as some Leafs fans. And Couturier's value is really his potential and his two way play. He hasn't proven yet that he can be anything more than a 2nd line shutdown Center. While Gardiner hasn't proved that he can be anything more than a top 4 OFD, he is still young and defense will improve with time, just like how couturier can develop offensive skill with time.

If not Mac, then name a foward that philly is interested in. The centerpiece is Gardiner.

SexyJoffreyLupul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-31-2012, 10:18 PM
  #13
KevinBieksa3*
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 208
vCash: 500
Toronto would need to add.

KevinBieksa3* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-31-2012, 10:20 PM
  #14
Mgd31
Registered User
 
Mgd31's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Flushing, NY
Posts: 8,952
vCash: 500
No reason for Philly to move Couturier for nothing less than a sure upgrade at the back-end.

Mgd31 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-31-2012, 10:20 PM
  #15
Bernier the Boats
Formerly BBurke
 
Bernier the Boats's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,571
vCash: 500
I think there's a good basis for a deal with Gardiner and Couturier. Let's not forget Gardiner outscored Couturier last season, in less games.

Bernier the Boats is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-31-2012, 10:36 PM
  #16
Bryzard of Oz
Registered User
 
Bryzard of Oz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Country: Canada
Posts: 735
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SexyJoffreyLupul View Post
Flyers need a good Mobile offensive defensemen to replace Carle. Mac is a 20 goal scorer that is defensively responsible. Brayden Schenn, Brier, and Giroux will prevent Couturier from playing in the top 6 in the near future. Philly is in a win now stage, they can't afford to wait another 4 years for couturier to develop. While Gardiner is good right now and fills an organizational need. IMO i would do it.
You're saying the Flyers should do this because they cannot wait for Couturier to develop and Gardiner fills an immediate need?

1) The Flyers don't need another second pairing dman, they need a legit top pairing guy which Gardiner isn't atm.

2) Couturier was one of, if not the best defensive forward on the team during the playoffs. Trading him would leave a large hole on our third line.

So in the end, on an immediate needs basis, the Flyers create a large hole and pick up something that they have an abundance of.

Yeah, no.

Bryzard of Oz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-31-2012, 10:43 PM
  #17
HockeyFan100
Welcome to COL!
 
HockeyFan100's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,797
vCash: 500
Big win for Philly.

HockeyFan100 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-31-2012, 10:48 PM
  #18
The Couturier Effect
Registered User
 
The Couturier Effect's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Country: United States
Posts: 3,824
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SexyJoffreyLupul View Post
Flyers need a good Mobile offensive defensemen to replace Carle. Mac is a 20 goal scorer that is defensively responsible. Brayden Schenn, Brier, and Giroux will prevent Couturier from playing in the top 6 in the near future. Philly is in a win now stage, they can't afford to wait another 4 years for couturier to develop. While Gardiner is good right now and fills an organizational need. IMO i would do it.

Considering that i am willing to trade Gardiner, i don't think i am as biased as some Leafs fans. And Couturier's value is really his potential and his two way play. He hasn't proven yet that he can be anything more than a 2nd line shutdown Center. While Gardiner hasn't proved that he can be anything more than a top 4 OFD, he is still young and defense will improve with time, just like how couturier can develop offensive skill with time.

If not Mac, then name a foward that philly is interested in. The centerpiece is Gardiner.
The Flyers need a #1 shut-down defenseman like Phaneuf. They don't need another player like Matt Carle. The only thing he was good for was the PP. Unless Phaneuf is in the offer, Couturier is off the table.

The Couturier Effect is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-31-2012, 10:54 PM
  #19
The Couturier Effect
Registered User
 
The Couturier Effect's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Country: United States
Posts: 3,824
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BBurke View Post
I think there's a good basis for a deal with Gardiner and Couturier. Let's not forget Gardiner outscored Couturier last season, in less games.
Who cares about scoring? A defenseman's job is to play defense. The Flyers don't need another Matt Carle.

The Couturier Effect is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-31-2012, 10:55 PM
  #20
SexyJoffreyLupul
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 416
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryzard of Oz View Post
You're saying the Flyers should do this because they cannot wait for Couturier to develop and Gardiner fills an immediate need?

1) The Flyers don't need another second pairing dman, they need a legit top pairing guy which Gardiner isn't atm.

2) Couturier was one of, if not the best defensive forward on the team during the playoffs. Trading him would leave a large hole on our third line.

So in the end, on an immediate needs basis, the Flyers create a large hole and pick up something that they have an abundance of.

Yeah, no.
Matt Read not good enough? If defense is your concern then we can add Kulemin. Gardiner and couturier are equal in value, and IMO Coburn and Timonen are a good top two. I don't understand why you think Couturier can fetch a legit 1st pairing based purely on his potential, no team would trade a Weber or a Chara or even Phaneuf for potential, No team has a plethora of potential No.1 Defenders. Gardiner is a potential 1D and imo its easier to improve defensively than improve offensively.

SexyJoffreyLupul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-31-2012, 10:57 PM
  #21
Flyerfan52
Registered User
 
Flyerfan52's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 615
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SexyJoffreyLupul View Post
Flyers need a good Mobile offensive defensemen to replace Carle. Mac is a 20 goal scorer that is defensively responsible. Brayden Schenn, Brier, and Giroux will prevent Couturier from playing in the top 6 in the near future. Philly is in a win now stage, they can't afford to wait another 4 years for couturier to develop. While Gardiner is good right now and fills an organizational need. IMO i would do it.

Considering that i am willing to trade Gardiner, i don't think i am as biased as some Leafs fans. And Couturier's value is really his potential and his two way play. He hasn't proven yet that he can be anything more than a 2nd line shutdown Center. While Gardiner hasn't proved that he can be anything more than a top 4 OFD, he is still young and defense will improve with time, just like how couturier can develop offensive skill with time.

If not Mac, then name a foward that philly is interested in. The centerpiece is Gardiner.
MacArthur is a 20 goal scorer on the Leafs where that might be rare but the Flyers have 4 of those + 3 more within 2 of that. @ $3.25 he's worth more to the Leafs then he'd be to the Flyers.
Honestly, Gardiner is a ? & I'd rather keep Couturier. A probable 2 way C (2/3 line) trumps a depth defense.

As to other forwards to make up the difference there really aren't any TO could give up. If Couturier had the infamous sophomore slump in Philly there is the depth to cover it but the Leafs can't do that.

The Flyers seem to be good @ drafting forwards but use them to trade for established defense rather then 1 year men.
Personally I'd be happy getting Sbisa back instead of having Gardiner as he wouldn't cost us Couts (unless it was a package deal).

IMO these are not good trading partners. No offense intended but that's my view.

Flyerfan52 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
10-31-2012, 10:58 PM
  #22
Gavy
Registered User
 
Gavy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 836
vCash: 500
Some of you are being ridiculous. I would not trade Rielly for Couturier straight up. And Leafs are only giving up Gardiner for a #1 centre, Couturier is a #2 centre

Gavy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-31-2012, 11:01 PM
  #23
Phion Keneuf
Top Dawg Ent.
 
Phion Keneuf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Vaughan, Ontario
Country: Italy
Posts: 27,902
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gavy View Post
Some of you are being ridiculous. I would not trade Rielly for Couturier straight up. And Leafs are only giving up Gardiner for a #1 centre, Couturier is a #2 centre
This.

Couturier is good and all but IMO he won't be a #1 C

Phion Keneuf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-31-2012, 11:03 PM
  #24
Flyerfan52
Registered User
 
Flyerfan52's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 615
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SexyJoffreyLupul View Post
Matt Read not good enough? If defense is your concern then we can add Kulemin. Gardiner and couturier are equal in value, and IMO Coburn and Timonen are a good top two. I don't understand why you think Couturier can fetch a legit 1st pairing based purely on his potential, no team would trade a Weber or a Chara or even Phaneuf for potential, No team has a plethora of potential No.1 Defenders. Gardiner is a potential 1D and imo its easier to improve defensively than improve offensively.
It was never mentioned that Couturier alone would fetch a legit #1. The point is he shouldn't be traded for another 2/5 defense as we have an abundance of those.
As a 2 way he's like a semi 3rd D out there anyway which makes their job easier.

Flyerfan52 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
10-31-2012, 11:05 PM
  #25
The Couturier Effect
Registered User
 
The Couturier Effect's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Country: United States
Posts: 3,824
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SexyJoffreyLupul View Post
Matt Read not good enough? If defense is your concern then we can add Kulemin. Gardiner and couturier are equal in value, and IMO Coburn and Timonen are a good top two. I don't understand why you think Couturier can fetch a legit 1st pairing based purely on his potential, no team would trade a Weber or a Chara for potential. Gardiner is a potential 1D and imo its easier to improve defensively than improve offensively.
I think David Poile will say otherwise. Couturier was one of the players he wanted for Weber.

EDIT: Not saying that Couturier alone for Weber would've worked, but he probably would've been the centerpiece in the deal for the Preds.

Also, the Flyers need is on defense. And you want us to trade away someone who has proved that he can play defense in the NHL, for someone who has not proved to be able to play defense in the NHL? Doesn't make any sense for the Flyers.


Last edited by The Couturier Effect: 10-31-2012 at 11:13 PM.
The Couturier Effect is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:08 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.