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The Lockout Thread Part I

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Old
10-30-2012, 12:21 PM
  #676
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Originally Posted by Skraut View Post
Wasn't directed at Stretch in any way. Just giving reasons why one might hypothetically feel that way.

As far as your Starbucks analogy. No if I drank coffee I'd probably just brew my own. Which is why I've spent a lot more time playing hockey than watching it. Hell, I've driven the 2 hours to Columbus to skate and see friends, a trip I would normally make to watch NHL hockey. I have AHL hockey in my home town, much of it with NHL talent. I could go, but don't. The "I want to watch hockey" pull just isn't as strong without a team to be invested in.

I know this lockout has changed my perspective on the league, and the team. To the extent I listed above, possibly, and again possibly not. I'm not fully sure, I don't have a deadline. I do know each day I find other things to do, and other things to care about.
1) All of which is to miss the point, which is that a poster suggested he/she was willing to quit the NHL because of the lockout. Presuming he/she enjoys the NHL, what do you gain from giving it up, regardless of the circumstances? Presuming...

2) This business also implies that people have been ignoring things that are more important due to their NHL fan-dom. I certainly don't think it requires a lockout for folks to realize that spending time with family and friends, or reading a good book, or going to school/work are important things.

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10-30-2012, 12:22 PM
  #677
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Originally Posted by WinSock View Post
To each their own, I guess, but the lockout affects me in the following way: I can't watch NHL hockey until it's resolved. There's nothing personal about it, neither the players nor the owners are out to get me, it's just annoying. When they finally come to an agreement I will make a sacrifice of thanks to the hockey gods and go on with my life as usual, only then there will be hockey instead of no hockey.

I can respect that others feel different, but that doesn't mean I understand all of the angst.
Or, what Win said.

It's possible she doesn't want to be associated with all of my bluster, but this is my point. I'm allowed to wish there was NHL hockey without it also meaning I don't recognize there are more important things.

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10-30-2012, 12:52 PM
  #678
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Originally Posted by Double-Shift Lassé View Post
1) All of which is to miss the point, which is that a poster suggested he/she was willing to quit the NHL because of the lockout. Presuming he/she enjoys the NHL, what do you gain from giving it up, regardless of the circumstances? Presuming...
Time. The (forced) opportunity to see where an idle mind leads you.

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Originally Posted by Double-Shift Lassé View Post
2) This business also implies that people have been ignoring things that are more important due to their NHL fan-dom. I certainly don't think it requires a lockout for folks to realize that spending time with family and friends, or reading a good book, or going to school/work are important things.
Or it could mean that they have discovered completely new interests to devote time to. I had extra time on my hands. I got bored. I started messing around with programming and video game development, which I haven't done in 13 years. Now I'm currently drafting the paperwork to start a business, as I had a flood of ideas hit me for mobile apps/games I want to write. Had I been busy watching and recording games and pulling out highlights to make videos, I'm not sure I would have taken those steps.

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10-30-2012, 02:09 PM
  #679
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Originally Posted by Skraut View Post
Time. The (forced) opportunity to see where an idle mind leads you.



Or it could mean that they have discovered completely new interests to devote time to. I had extra time on my hands. I got bored. I started messing around with programming and video game development, which I haven't done in 13 years. Now I'm currently drafting the paperwork to start a business, as I had a flood of ideas hit me for mobile apps/games I want to write. Had I been busy watching and recording games and pulling out highlights to make videos, I'm not sure I would have taken those steps.
None of this is implied by the self-imposed deadline kind of thinking that got this all started in the first place. Unless you think someone is suggesting "I'm giving the NHL till Nov. 1 to get its act together or I'm going to follow through with my plans to start my own small business. If they start playing games, well, never mind."

I'll admit I don't know you off these boards, Skraut, but you seem like you've got a pretty good life. It's way cool you've got this new stuff percolating, and I get that some additional free time may have played a role. But I can't get on board with the notion that folks who wish the NHL would get back to playing games so that we could go to them and talk about them and watch them on TV can't still recognize a leisure time choice for what it is as they prioritize their lives.

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10-30-2012, 03:11 PM
  #680
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Originally Posted by Double-Shift Lassé View Post
None of this is implied by the self-imposed deadline kind of thinking that got this all started in the first place. Unless you think someone is suggesting "I'm giving the NHL till Nov. 1 to get its act together or I'm going to follow through with my plans to start my own small business. If they start playing games, well, never mind."
I guess the analogy for me isn't a light switch, but a dimmer. As I turn up the brightness on one area of interest, I turn down the dimmer elsewhere. For me personally, I figure each video I make has 100+ hours into it. To do that free of charge, I had to have a lot of time energy to put into it. My fandom was cranked just about as high as it could go, and it's gradually getting turned down as things pass. If I had to put a number on it, I'd say I'm probably around 60% of where I was a year ago this time. If the season were to start tomorrow I'd still make the trip to see my quarter season season tickets. I'll still watch a good number of the games, but I don't think I'd stay up to watch a 10:30pm start, and I'd look hard about weather or not to renew the season tickets in the future.

But at some point, the dimmer gets down so low that you wonder why you're sending any energy to it at all. And that could be the reason someone has given it a deadline. Their already directing a lot of energy and effort elsewhere. They either need to turn the dial back up, or just turn it off completely.

Maybe because I quit following the league from 1998-2003, it doesn't bother me to turn it off again.

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I'll admit I don't know you off these boards, Skraut, but you seem like you've got a pretty good life. It's way cool you've got this new stuff percolating, and I get that some additional free time may have played a role. But I can't get on board with the notion that folks who wish the NHL would get back to playing games so that we could go to them and talk about them and watch them on TV can't still recognize a leisure time choice for what it is as they prioritize their lives.
I never said those who want the NHL to come back (of which I count myself) couldn't recognize that it was just a leisure activity, and couldn't prioritize it.

I said those that may turn their back on the league may have found other leisure time activities.

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10-30-2012, 03:33 PM
  #681
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skraut View Post
I never said those who want the NHL to come back (of which I count myself) couldn't recognize that it was just a leisure activity, and couldn't prioritize it.

I said those that may turn their back on the league may have found other leisure time activities.
Good enough, man. I just read some of your initial reply (I've bolded what struck me below) as suggesting that folks didn't already have better, more important things in their lives and that without the shackles of NHL fandom they realize there's more to life.

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Originally Posted by Skraut View Post
Because you've found better things to do. Because you've found other things you enjoy. Because you've spent a lot of money in the past few years on hockey, and owners and players now aren't willing to come to an agreement on how to divide it. Because they've assumed your money will just be there, waiting for them when they get back.

Because you realize how silly it is. Because you realize it's just a game and there are more important things in life. Because you don't care about being a "Troo Fan" who has to show back up when the doors finally open and throw more money at the problem. Maybe you're realizing there's nothing wrong with being a bandwagonner, and being a fan on your own terms.
I already was doing the things I had that were "better to do." In addition to going to NHL games/watching NHL games/talking about NHL games on an internet forum. I already knew it was just a game and that there are more important things in life. I had already engaged my dimmer, and I'm assuming I'm not alone in this.

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10-30-2012, 03:47 PM
  #682
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The other thing that strikes me as just odd is when people (not necessarily in our forum but in general) actively root for the NHL to fail as a result of the lockout. I'm sorry but really? Can you (general) really be that petty? This lockout really has nothing to do with you. The owners and players might be acting petty and childish but it's towards each other and not towards us. So why the hate? The amount of people who WOULD be affected if the league folds is vast and most of them have nothing to do with this stupidity either so why hope for them to be out of a job? I just don't get it. And I know I'm not saying anything here that hasn't been said elsewhere but it's been bothering me and I'm bored at work so I thought I'd get it off my chest.

Now back to your regularly scheduled lockout chat.

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10-30-2012, 04:37 PM
  #683
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A long while back (amidst the arena lease discussion) I remember saying that if there was no CBJ, I'd not spend my money in downtown CBUS, or frankly in Franklin County. Several posters found that unbelievable, though I don't know why. (looking at you Cap'n)

Well, here we are. I have not eaten a meal downtown or spent any entertainment $$ outside one cheap trip to see what the casino was all about.

As for my $8000 plus STH refund should the season be canceled, it is earmarked for a European vacation.

I am finding it ironic that exactly what I said would happen to my NHL/CBJ desposile income is quite possibly coming to fruition.

Didn't spend my disposible income in Franklin county prior to my CBJ fixation, won't if they are not playing, either. Just mulling and reflecting....

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10-30-2012, 06:06 PM
  #684
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Originally Posted by Derby View Post
A long while back (amidst the arena lease discussion) I remember saying that if there was no CBJ, I'd not spend my money in downtown CBUS, or frankly in Franklin County. Several posters found that unbelievable, though I don't know why. (looking at you Cap'n)

Well, here we are. I have not eaten a meal downtown or spent any entertainment $$ outside one cheap trip to see what the casino was all about.

As for my $8000 plus STH refund should the season be canceled, it is earmarked for a European vacation.

I am finding it ironic that exactly what I said would happen to my NHL/CBJ desposile income is quite possibly coming to fruition.

Didn't spend my disposible income in Franklin county prior to my CBJ fixation, won't if they are not playing, either. Just mulling and reflecting....
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10-30-2012, 09:50 PM
  #685
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I wonder with the NBA season starting if this will spark owners and players back to the table. I know the demographics are completely different in viewers but they share the same season dynamics. Probably wishful thinking but one can hope.

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10-30-2012, 10:01 PM
  #686
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Bring back the WHA. The NHL could use some competition.

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10-31-2012, 05:13 PM
  #687
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Originally Posted by leesmith View Post
Bring back the WHA. The NHL could use some competition.
I think that is the problem with most pro sports. No competition means they can do what they want.

Look how it's affected sports games...has Madden or EA NHL gotten any better since 2K stopped making games? No motivation to improve upon anything when there is no competition.

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10-31-2012, 05:32 PM
  #688
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Originally Posted by mmajeski06 View Post
I think that is the problem with most pro sports. No competition means they can do what they want.

Look how it's affected sports games...has Madden or EA NHL gotten any better since 2K stopped making games? No motivation to improve upon anything when there is no competition.
I can guarantee you that a competitor to MLB would achieve one of the two standard goals.

1) Absorption of at least two teams, if the league is successful, and
2) Changes in the way that MLB reacts to common-sense adjustments

I've long been of the opinion that cutting down on the amount of time allowed between pitches, combined with forbidding hitters from calling time or stepping out of the batters box once his at-bat starts, would shave anywhere from 40-60 minutes off the time of every game. The most common complaint with baseball is that it features not just down time, but wasted time. It would be like changing football to a game without a game clock but keeping a play clock, and then allowing unlimited timeouts (each of which resets the play clock).

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10-31-2012, 05:59 PM
  #689
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Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
I can guarantee you that a competitor to MLB would achieve one of the two standard goals.

1) Absorption of at least two teams, if the league is successful, and
2) Changes in the way that MLB reacts to common-sense adjustments

I've long been of the opinion that cutting down on the amount of time allowed between pitches, combined with forbidding hitters from calling time or stepping out of the batters box once his at-bat starts, would shave anywhere from 40-60 minutes off the time of every game. The most common complaint with baseball is that it features not just down time, but wasted time. It would be like changing football to a game without a game clock but keeping a play clock, and then allowing unlimited timeouts (each of which resets the play clock).
This is the craziest thing you have ever posted on this board.

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10-31-2012, 06:53 PM
  #690
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Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
I can guarantee you that a competitor to MLB would achieve one of the two standard goals.

1) Absorption of at least two teams, if the league is successful, and
2) Changes in the way that MLB reacts to common-sense adjustments

I've long been of the opinion that cutting down on the amount of time allowed between pitches, combined with forbidding hitters from calling time or stepping out of the batters box once his at-bat starts, would shave anywhere from 40-60 minutes off the time of every game. The most common complaint with baseball is that it features not just down time, but wasted time. It would be like changing football to a game without a game clock but keeping a play clock, and then allowing unlimited timeouts (each of which resets the play clock).
I was with ya up until that last sentence. Still scratching my head over that one!

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10-31-2012, 07:08 PM
  #691
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Originally Posted by 1857 Howitzer View Post
This is the craziest thing you have ever posted on this board.
I can assure you that I've said crazier.

I actually had this thread over a year ago, which tries to look at the math behind why games take as long as they do.

If you ask 100 people why they don't watch baseball, I can guarantee that the majority will say "it's too boring", "there's too much standing around", or something else along those lines. No one's suggesting dismantling a major part of the game here, but eliminating downtime to the greatest extent possible. Every league has done this, and MLB seems to have no interest in it. Then the powers-that-be sit around and wonder why ratings constantly slump for the under-50 demographic.

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10-31-2012, 07:24 PM
  #692
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I can assure you that I've said crazier.

I actually had this thread over a year ago, which tries to look at the math behind why games take as long as they do.

If you ask 100 people why they don't watch baseball, I can guarantee that the majority will say "it's too boring", "there's too much standing around", or something else along those lines. No one's suggesting dismantling a major part of the game here, but eliminating downtime to the greatest extent possible. Every league has done this, and MLB seems to have no interest in it. Then the powers-that-be sit around and wonder why ratings constantly slump for the under-50 demographic.
Okay. That's spot on.

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10-31-2012, 07:57 PM
  #693
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Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
I can guarantee you that a competitor to MLB would achieve one of the two standard goals.

1) Absorption of at least two teams, if the league is successful, and
2) Changes in the way that MLB reacts to common-sense adjustments

I've long been of the opinion that cutting down on the amount of time allowed between pitches, combined with forbidding hitters from calling time or stepping out of the batters box once his at-bat starts, would shave anywhere from 40-60 minutes off the time of every game. The most common complaint with baseball is that it features not just down time, but wasted time. It would be like changing football to a game without a game clock but keeping a play clock, and then allowing unlimited timeouts (each of which resets the play clock).
This is a good analogy. How much more fun would basketball be to watch if the final two minutes of the game didn't take 25 minutes to play. I'm speaking mostly of college basketball and I think there are way too many timeouts per half.

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10-31-2012, 09:16 PM
  #694
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Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
I can assure you that I've said crazier.

I actually had this thread over a year ago, which tries to look at the math behind why games take as long as they do.

If you ask 100 people why they don't watch baseball, I can guarantee that the majority will say "it's too boring", "there's too much standing around", or something else along those lines. No one's suggesting dismantling a major part of the game here, but eliminating downtime to the greatest extent possible. Every league has done this, and MLB seems to have no interest in it. Then the powers-that-be sit around and wonder why ratings constantly slump for the under-50 demographic.
I know the "it's too boring" people and IMO they can bugger off. If I can sit and watch 140+ Reds games from start to finish every year then anyone can.

I would prefer if their were anything done to speed up the game that it would be done by shorting the time between each half inning, but that's not going to happen because of Ad dollars.

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10-31-2012, 09:17 PM
  #695
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Originally Posted by leesmith View Post
Bring back the WHA. The NHL could use some competition.
I would say there's enough WHAhing going on in the hockey world right now.

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10-31-2012, 10:07 PM
  #696
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This is a good analogy. How much more fun would basketball be to watch if the final two minutes of the game didn't take 25 minutes to play. I'm speaking mostly of college basketball and I think there are way too many timeouts per half.
My suggestions were to cut from five timeouts to three, and also change the team foul rules. Currently it's seven fouls for a one-and-one, and ten fouls for a double bonus. My idea was seven for a one-and-one, nine for the double bonus, and eleven for a double bonus AND possession of the ball.

I don't care if repeatedly fouling on the inbound may be sound strategy, it's horrendously boring.

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10-31-2012, 10:16 PM
  #697
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Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
I can assure you that I've said crazier.

I actually had this thread over a year ago, which tries to look at the math behind why games take as long as they do.

If you ask 100 people why they don't watch baseball, I can guarantee that the majority will say "it's too boring", "there's too much standing around", or something else along those lines. No one's suggesting dismantling a major part of the game here, but eliminating downtime to the greatest extent possible. Every league has done this, and MLB seems to have no interest in it. Then the powers-that-be sit around and wonder why ratings constantly slump for the under-50 demographic.
In every sport, there's some aspect which THAT SPORT'S HATERS love to hate.

MLB: "takes too long"
NFL: "too much showboating"
NBA: "Don't play defense"
Hockey: "Can't follow the puck"
NHL HOCKEY: WTFC, too many crybaby millionaires
Tennis: "Skirts too short"

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11-01-2012, 04:57 AM
  #698
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In every sport, there's some aspect which THAT SPORT'S HATERS love to hate.

MLB: "takes too long"
NFL: "too much showboating"
NBA: "Don't play defense"
Hockey: "Can't follow the puck"
NHL HOCKEY: WTFC, too many crybaby millionaires
Tennis: "Skirts too short"
True dis.

If people who like baseball think it's fine that every batter wants to re-velcro every piece of body armor he's wearing in between every pitch, even if he doesn't swing at it, and if they think it's fine every pitcher wants to go on walkabout between every pitch, and finally there's going to be a pitch but the batter calls time because his cup isn't set right or he forgot to tap his shoulder during his pre-step-in-the-box routine, and then the catcher decides he hasn't been to the mound in a while, and the second baseman's all like I wonder what they're talking about, and then maybe you finally get a pitch which the batter fouls off so that the announcers can say it's a good at-bat or seomthing and then the whole thing starts over, who am I to say it's stupid, ridiculous and boring?

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11-01-2012, 07:33 AM
  #699
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True dis.

If people who like baseball think it's fine that every batter wants to re-velcro every piece of body armor he's wearing in between every pitch, even if he doesn't swing at it, and if they think it's fine every pitcher wants to go on walkabout between every pitch, and finally there's going to be a pitch but the batter calls time because his cup isn't set right or he forgot to tap his shoulder during his pre-step-in-the-box routine, and then the catcher decides he hasn't been to the mound in a while, and the second baseman's all like I wonder what they're talking about, and then maybe you finally get a pitch which the batter fouls off so that the announcers can say it's a good at-bat or seomthing and then the whole thing starts over, who am I to say it's stupid, ridiculous and boring?
Bleacherreport.com has a good summary:

According to MLB.com, the average time for a nine inning game in the 1970s was around two hours and 30 minutes. Thirty years later, the numbers had grown to two hours and 45 minutes to two hours and 50 minutes during the early part of the 21st century. Starting in 2007, the number grew to a little more than two hours and 50 minutes per game, and has not fallen below the 2:50 mark since.

So, what has caused the increase in game time? The increase is related to several factors not directly correlated with the game, notably increased time between innings for TV and radio commercials.
------------------------------------

JF adds: Back in radio days, they could do commercials on the fly during the game.

I took in a Clippers Game this past summer, and its leisurely pace was very nice IN PERSON. Plenty of time to get refills, carry on a conversation, watch the crowd, etc., and wasn't subjected to inane commercials.

As much as I would like to blame cup adjusting and velcro the REAL problem is that on average they are showing more commercials per hour than ever before.

STAT showing number of commercial minutes per hour of TV. (I'd guess the problem is due to cable tv competition, creative costs, and healthcare costs, really.)



What this has to do with the lockout, I dunno, and who cares?

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11-01-2012, 07:52 AM
  #700
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Bleacherreport.com has a good summary:

According to MLB.com, the average time for a nine inning game in the 1970s was around two hours and 30 minutes. Thirty years later, the numbers had grown to two hours and 45 minutes to two hours and 50 minutes during the early part of the 21st century. Starting in 2007, the number grew to a little more than two hours and 50 minutes per game, and has not fallen below the 2:50 mark since.

So, what has caused the increase in game time? The increase is related to several factors not directly correlated with the game, notably increased time between innings for TV and radio commercials.
What this fails to take into account is that baseball was boring in the 70s too.

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What this has to do with the lockout, I dunno, and who cares?
The lockout is boring.

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