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2012 CBA Discussion III (Lockout Talk)

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Old
10-31-2012, 01:55 PM
  #301
ODAAT
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I believe there are more than a few teams who hemorrhage cash that could care less if 20 home games will go by the way during this

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10-31-2012, 02:21 PM
  #302
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Originally Posted by Scotto74 View Post
and that is why the owners are the ones trying to fix it not the players.
And the owners need to fix it. Rolling back players salary might be a short term fix. But in 6-8 years we'll be right back here again.

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10-31-2012, 02:59 PM
  #303
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Shelly Anderson ‏@pgshelly
No details, but heard that BIll Daly-Steve Fehr contact recently has been of substantial nature, even qualifying as light negotiations.

The #2's are going to be the ones who get this done.

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10-31-2012, 03:22 PM
  #304
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Jeremy Jacobs and his team that is obviously making ****ing money and has benefited from the new CBA more than anyone else is one of the hard-liners.

NO ****ING WAY!

100% support the players or the owners, the idea that Jeremy Jacobs is not a fan of the current CBA is infuriating.

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Old
10-31-2012, 04:27 PM
  #305
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Originally Posted by BlackNgold 84 View Post
So they are struggling to make a profit.. ok. This is a business right? many people keep on saying professional sports are a business. If you can't make a profit than theres something wrong with management. Are there certain things that take away from their profit or different economic problems, absolutely. But the system that is presently being implemented is obviously not working. And that is on the owners, not the players.
you should read your words cause you say all the right stuff.. you just dont seem to hear yourself speaking. yes the owners screwed up... and now they are trying to fix it. its on them... yes... you are right

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Old
10-31-2012, 04:37 PM
  #306
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How many AHL players do you think would cross that virtual picket line? Enough to stock a league?
when a replacement league starts... it wont be very good... probably very comparable to a top european league. a step below the khl... a step above the ahl.

maybe some recently retired nhlers will come back for another payday... some north americans that were in europe cause they couldnt play here will come back. some college grads that didnt think they had a chance at a pro career will tryout. and most of the nhl would be stocked by career ahl vets.

now the first year will suck... the players will get great paydays compared to what they are used to. ticket prices would have to be way way way down... maybe even given away. maybe the owners would have to live off concession money cause maybe the ticket prices would be non existient but a funny thing would happen in year two... once the players have gone two entire years losing 2-6 million dollars per... they will wonder what the hell they are doing????

at that point they will either settle on a new cba that is ok for the league... or they will just start crossing the line themselves. Ultimately the average career for even decent third liners is still only around 10 years. the first 3 they dont get paid alot. the last couple they dont usually get paid alot either. third liner types only have a 5-6 year span they can make this type of money.

fourth liners have much shorter careers... missing 2 seasons could miss their entire careers.

superstars... well... they often worry about their place in history. a guy that wants to end up with 500 career goals and a spot in the hall of fame could lose his chances with 2 years out.

so... there wont be replacement players this year... but i could see it happen next year if worst comes to worst... and if it happened again in year three then there would be a lot of good nhl players involved.

in the long run... the league would probably do better if they can break the union... but the next couple years would suck. pain for gain.

i dont see it happening... surely the players have more common sense then to sit out 2 years over misguided sense of principal?

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Old
10-31-2012, 04:50 PM
  #307
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackNgold 84 View Post
So they are struggling to make a profit.. ok. This is a business right? many people keep on saying professional sports are a business. If you can't make a profit than theres something wrong with management. Are there certain things that take away from their profit or different economic problems, absolutely. But the system that is presently being implemented is obviously not working. And that is on the owners, not the players.
It's not working... But it's not mismanagement that's got them to not working.

The old CBA made it nearly impossible to lose great deals of money (the argument was made back in 2004, THIS CBA has worked). All we need now is a slight tinker to the system and teams can start making actual money.

You focus on who is to blame. It's not about "fault" or "fair". It's about a problem, a solution, and how to get there.

Right now, I'm sympathetic to one side more than another because I feel as though the NHL is bullying. The PA has actually shown a willingness to sacrifice. And every proposal I have put forward focuses on taking the LEAST amount possible from the PA AND on giving the PA representation in the operations of the league. Give, take, and an effort to cease the noise and pointless arguing next time 'round.

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10-31-2012, 04:52 PM
  #308
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People, people... talk about the post content, not the poster.

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1) Flaming: Do not post any messages that harass, insult (name calling), belittle, threaten or mock other members. Debates are fine, but critique the opinion, not the person. Personal attacks are not permitted. Do not call other posters trolls. Do not use sweeping generalizations and plural pronouns to cloak personal attacks. For example if a poster(s) states that he thinks 'x' is a good idea, replying that "Anyone who supports 'x' is an idiot" is a personal attack. Do not start threads to call out and embarrass other members; or make posts about ignore lists.
Get it back on track please.

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10-31-2012, 05:27 PM
  #309
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Waaaay too much emotion going on here. What's fair? Who's right or wrong? What side to pick?

I'm just waiting it out. I invest my emotion like my money.......carefully.

This is business. Business is greed. It's about getting whatever you can because at the end of it all its taking care of your own needs and desires.

Nobody is right. Nobody is wrong. Fair isn't a factor.

It's business and it will end when someone says uncle. We put more into it than there really is. We are the fans. We are the insurance policy that allows the sides to do this. We will go back when called to do so. We are as addicted to it as crackheads. Maybe we are to blame?

People give me crap for my "it's always about the money" mantra. But it really is.

Relax folks. Hockey will be back. When it comes back the combatants will stand together and laud what a good deal/compromise/collaborative effort it was. That too is just business.

We will return. They will make money.

Then we will begin the cycle again.

So, live, love, and laugh .

Enjoy hockey when it returns. It doesn't deserve this much angst in the big picture really.

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Old
10-31-2012, 10:37 PM
  #310
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Well said, Wally. Well said, indeed.

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Old
11-01-2012, 08:36 AM
  #311
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Originally Posted by BlackNgold 84 View Post
And the owners need to fix it. Rolling back players salary might be a short term fix. But in 6-8 years we'll be right back here again.
but the rolling back of salary is only one step in the process not the entire process needed to fix the system.

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Old
11-01-2012, 08:45 AM
  #312
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Originally Posted by EverettMike View Post
Jeremy Jacobs and his team that is obviously making ****ing money and has benefited from the new CBA more than anyone else is one of the hard-liners.

NO ****ING WAY!

100% support the players or the owners, the idea that Jeremy Jacobs is not a fan of the current CBA is infuriating.
And this guy is one of the 'best owners' this league has to offer

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11-01-2012, 08:52 AM
  #313
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gee Wally View Post
Waaaay too much emotion going on here. What's fair? Who's right or wrong? What side to pick?

I'm just waiting it out. I invest my emotion like my money.......carefully.

This is business. Business is greed. It's about getting whatever you can because at the end of it all its taking care of your own needs and desires.

Nobody is right. Nobody is wrong. Fair isn't a factor.

It's business and it will end when someone says uncle. We put more into it than there really is. We are the fans. We are the insurance policy that allows the sides to do this. We will go back when called to do so. We are as addicted to it as crackheads. Maybe we are to blame?

People give me crap for my "it's always about the money" mantra. But it really is.

Relax folks. Hockey will be back. When it comes back the combatants will stand together and laud what a good deal/compromise/collaborative effort it was. That too is just business.

We will return. They will make money.

Then we will begin the cycle again.

So, live, love, and laugh .

Enjoy hockey when it returns. It doesn't deserve this much angst in the big picture really
.


soooooo true

btw- color me an optimist but this is a new month and I think it gets resolved here; maybe corny, but its Veterans Day and Thanksgiving and I watched A Football Life Chris Speilman last night (it was really zero about football and everything about LIVE, LOVE, and LAUGH)....amazing and leaves you wanting to be a better person....I recommend this to anyone even those that hate football)

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Old
11-01-2012, 09:22 AM
  #314
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Players rec'd their escrow checks Tuesday, roughly $80,000 for every million they have in salary.

They also missed their first paycheck yesterday - roughly $77,000 for every million they have in salary

Players get 13 checks per year and they are paid between October and April.

Mid November they start losing money.

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Old
11-01-2012, 09:30 AM
  #315
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Originally Posted by OrrOverGretzky View Post
Players rec'd their escrow checks Tuesday, roughly $80,000 for every million they have in salary.

They also missed their first paycheck yesterday - roughly $77,000 for every million they have in salary

Players get 13 checks per year and they are paid between October and April.

Mid November they start losing money.
Dom any word/opinion on the significance of the WC?

Obviously it's a money maker for the league and players, but are the effects of its cancellation being overblown by the media? And more strategically, is the league almost forced to cancel it so as to not appear weak or reluctant in the eyes of the PA?

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Old
11-01-2012, 09:35 AM
  #316
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bp13 View Post
Dom any word/opinion on the significance of the WC?

Obviously it's a money maker for the league and players, but are the effects of its cancellation being overblown by the media? And more strategically, is the league almost forced to cancel it so as to not appear weak or reluctant in the eyes of the PA?
Being around Boston when the WC was going on, I don't think they can pull it off in such short notice, assuming no one is working right now.

The rink was being installed in early/mid December. Thats a little over a month away. I am not privy to the pre planning but I am sure it is large and takes month. I doubt they will be able to pull it off.

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Old
11-01-2012, 09:36 AM
  #317
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bp13 View Post
Dom any word/opinion on the significance of the WC?

Obviously it's a money maker for the league and players, but are the effects of its cancellation being overblown by the media? And more strategically, is the league almost forced to cancel it so as to not appear weak or reluctant in the eyes of the PA?
It's all about the money. NHL has already made a $100K payment with a $1 million payment on Monday (Pretty sure that's the date - it could be later in the week) and then one final payment is due after that.

Fehr and Daly talked yesterday, are scheduled to talk again today, and there could be a face to face later today or tomorrow in a last ditch attempt to close the gap. If progress is made the league will hold on cancelling it until the weekend and see how it progresses. If no progress, consider it done they cancel it tomorrow and save the $1million+ in payments due.

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11-01-2012, 09:40 AM
  #318
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...I should also add, I have reason to believe that they close the gap in the next couple of days, not an outright deal, but close enough that BOTH sides say "we can work off this" and come to a deal soon and thereby the NHL doesn't cancel the WC.

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11-01-2012, 09:43 AM
  #319
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Originally Posted by OrrOverGretzky View Post
It's all about the money. NHL has already made a $100K payment with a $1 million payment on Monday (Pretty sure that's the date - it could be later in the week) and then one final payment is due after that.

Fehr and Daly talked yesterday, are scheduled to talk again today, and there could be a face to face later today or tomorrow in a last ditch attempt to close the gap. If progress is made the league will hold on cancelling it until the weekend and see how it progresses. If no progress, consider it done they cancel it tomorrow and save the $1million+ in payments due.
Yup makes sense, and actually, almost 100% predictable right?

Personally, I just assumed there'd be a push in the days leading up that deadline so that one, or both groups, could claim they're trying to "save the WC for the fans". It's such an easy and obvious opportunity for these guys to try to score some PR points, so it surprises me little that whispers of "meaningful" discussions between Fehr and Daly are making the rounds.

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11-01-2012, 09:45 AM
  #320
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Our last posts crossed Dom, but please don't take mine to mean I think you're being duped. I'm just cynical when it comes to this stuff and this WC deadline just seemed like an obvious opportunity for either side to try to score some PR points.

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11-01-2012, 09:49 AM
  #321
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bp13 View Post
Yup makes sense, and actually, almost 100% predictable right?

Personally, I just assumed there'd be a push in the days leading up that deadline so that one, or both groups, could claim they're trying to "save the WC for the fans". It's such an easy and obvious opportunity for these guys to try to score some PR points, so it surprises me little that whispers of "meaningful" discussions between Fehr and Daly are making the rounds.
Serious question:

How surprised would you be if I told you a proposal is forth coming from the NHL in the next few days?

Eugene Melnik has spoken out about how the league is handling it (sorry - no link - and look for a fine coming his way - hope you can take my word on that for now)

Some players are now putting pressure on the PA because they are about to start losing checks.

Now it gets serious.

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Old
11-01-2012, 09:52 AM
  #322
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Originally Posted by OrrOverGretzky View Post
Serious question:

How surprised would you be if I told you a proposal is forth coming from the NHL in the next few days?

Eugene Melnik has spoken out about how the league is handling it (sorry - no link - and look for a fine coming his way - hope you can take my word on that for now)

Some players are now putting pressure on the PA because they are about to start losing checks.

Now it gets serious.
Not one bit. I fully expected it.

And again, that isn't to pat myself on the back one bit as the prediction is borne of cynicism. There's just no way one side doesn't try to take advantage of the WC deadline by submitting a proposal then calling attention to how t represents "a significant effort to save the WC and the season". And who better to submit it than the group that created/agreed to this WC deadline?

So yeah..completely expected. The surprise will be if it actually IS a meaningful offer or just a small move from the last offer.

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11-01-2012, 11:09 AM
  #323
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...I should also add, I have reason to believe that they close the gap in the next couple of days, not an outright deal, but close enough that BOTH sides say "we can work off this" and come to a deal soon and thereby the NHL doesn't cancel the WC.
bingo....and if not expect not much serious discussion till after Thanksgiving imo- and that will be it; to me no hockey by New Years even without a WC then done.

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11-01-2012, 11:35 AM
  #324
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NHLPA conf call with the executive and negotiation committee on right now.

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Old
11-01-2012, 11:37 AM
  #325
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bingo....and if not expect not much serious discussion till after Thanksgiving imo- and that will be it; to me no hockey by New Years even without a WC then done.
I am at the point where I hope there is no hockey until mid-late Dec.

Nov is already gone and I am away for the first week in Dec on vacation.

If the B's make the playoffs I won't have to worry about $$$ for playoff games because the B's owe me over 3000 already.

Hopefully they learn something from this to prevent it from happening yet again...

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