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Ryan O'Reilly Vs Jaden Schwartz + Roman Polak

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Old
10-31-2012, 10:14 AM
  #51
Stories
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I have a massive man crush for Schwartz as he is a Colorado College guy and his sister, Mandy, was a Yale gal (RIP). But I don't think the appropriate value is there for O'Reilly.

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10-31-2012, 10:23 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
For discussion sake, what center is most available and what would it take?
Stastny is most available, although we're hardly in a rush to move him considering Duchy/O'Reilly still have question marks surrounding them and we just re-signed Stastny's winger in Jones.

We'd ideally be looking for something in the top pairing dman category if we moved him. Hard to say what his value is otherwise, it would have to be something which is either over the top or closer to the draft when our scouts can let Sherman know if someone is a can't-miss prospect we need the pick for I suppose. We'd also factor in likelihood of re-signing, which I can't imagine would be a problem.

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10-31-2012, 10:25 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
Stastny is most available, although we're hardly in a rush to move him considering Duchy/O'Reilly still have question marks surrounding them and we just re-signed Stastny's winger in Jones.

We'd ideally be looking for something in the top pairing dman category if we moved him. Hard to say what his value is otherwise, it would have to be something which is either over the top or closer to the draft when our scouts can let Sherman know if someone is a can't-miss prospect we need the pick for I suppose. We'd also factor in likelihood of re-signing, which I can't imagine would be a problem.
You should change your needs to wingers, so we can reunite Stastny and Stewart.

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10-31-2012, 10:44 AM
  #54
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When I posted this, all I cared about was value and I tried to take everything into consideration.

O'Reilly could very likely become a ''Backes'' type of guy but he's hasn't proven it on the long run yet so his value can't be considered at that same level.

Schwartz has some pretty good potential and a very high hockey IQ. Some are concerned with his size but I'm pretty confident this guy can put up 60+ points per year.

This is pretty much why I included Polak in there, as Schwartz, even though he has a higher ceiling in terms of production, isn't there yet and O'Reilly has soo many other intangibles.
How much do you expect Radar to produce, cause considering he put up over 50 this year with Winnik on his line for most of the season, I'd say him putting up 60+ a year isn't too far fetched. Add his defense and that he's already playing and excelling in the NHL, and I'd say that the difference between RoR and Schwartz is greater to the avs than a marginally better version of O'Byrne

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10-31-2012, 07:51 PM
  #55
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O'reilly's offense will somewhat depend on the role he's played in going forward - with McClement's departure they may be looking for O'reilly to be the main option the PK again and we don't know if they're going to keep him and Lando together long term. However he'll be constantly competing for ice time against Staz and Duchene if they perform well so that might be good for his continued progression anyways.

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10-31-2012, 08:18 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by cgf View Post
How much do you expect Radar to produce, cause considering he put up over 50 this year with Winnik on his line for most of the season, I'd say him putting up 60+ a year isn't too far fetched. Add his defense and that he's already playing and excelling in the NHL, and I'd say that the difference between RoR and Schwartz is greater to the avs than a marginally better version of O'Byrne
I'm not trying to say the value of the deal is great, but Polak is not marginally better than O'byrne. He's significantly better. He's easily a top four defenseman. He just happens to be behind two studs.

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10-31-2012, 08:49 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by BleedBlue247 View Post
I'm not trying to say the value of the deal is great, but Polak is not marginally better than O'byrne. He's significantly better. He's easily a top four defenseman. He just happens to be behind two studs.
One problem with that statement, you implied that O'Byrne is not a top 4 defender. When in fact he played like a very capable #4 defensive guy last season for us and has continually exceeded the expectations placed on him since arriving in Denver.

Polak is better, no doubt. But it's not the "significantly better" statement you're out to say it is. Unless Polak is a top pairing guy, which I guess if Petry and Smid are Polak could be too.

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10-31-2012, 08:59 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
One problem with that statement, you implied that O'Byrne is not a top 4 defender. When in fact he played like a very capable #4 defensive guy last season for us and has continually exceeded the expectations placed on him since arriving in Denver.

Polak is better, no doubt. But it's not the "significantly better" statement you're out to say it is. Unless Polak is a top pairing guy, which I guess if Petry and Smid are Polak could be too.
If Polak was a lefty, he'd be Pietrangelo's partner on the top pairing. I'd say he could be a top pairing with either a top partner or a really good offensive partner.

Our best defensive defenseman is Pietrangelo, but Polak is right behind him. He is either even or slightly better than Jackman, since he isn't prone to a boneheaded play when he has the puck on his stick.

Both players are probably underrated because they play an unappreciated game unless you actually watch them play.

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10-31-2012, 11:51 PM
  #59
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I would love O'Reilly in a Blues uni but that won't happen. So, instead, I would be happy with Stastny as well (still probably won't happen but more realistic IMO). I'm a big fan of all the Avs centers really, but I would be worried to find out the asking price for them.

I can definitely see why the Avs don't do this though. They have enough defensive d-men and Schwartz is a good prospect but isn't near enough for what O'Reilly brings to the table for them.

For the Blues side though, we can't really afford to lose Polak. He's a key piece on our defense. Obviously O'Reilly has much more value than Polak so I'm not trying to say the value is even, but it's just a move that doesn't make sense for either side - as has been summed up in the thread. It's a definite step back for the Avs.

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11-01-2012, 01:00 AM
  #60
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As an avs fan i see the value, but i see O'reily possibly putting up 20g 25G 45 50 A seasons. While playing for the selke, Schwartz i see as a 70pt player without the D that O'reily brings, if he can handle the NHL at his size and hit his potential. So i wouldn't do it for Schwartz alone

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11-01-2012, 06:39 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by BlueDream View Post
II'm a big fan of all the Avs centers really, but I would be worried to find out the asking price for them.
Well you're in luck, John Mitchell is a hot trading commodity! We're definitely willing to part with him.


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11-01-2012, 11:16 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
Well you're in luck, John Mitchell is a hot trading commodity! We're definitely willing to part with him.

Mitchell for Schwartz sounds fair to me.

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11-01-2012, 11:35 AM
  #63
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Pretty fair deal, but neither team likely does it.

Although I will say Roman Polak is a bit underrated. Pretty good shut-down defenceman and still just 26. Add in Schwartz and I think the value is definitely there, neither team just has any reason to make the deal.

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11-01-2012, 12:20 PM
  #64
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Duchene + Barrie + Elliott for Pietrangelo....?

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11-01-2012, 12:28 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by FoppaForsberg View Post
Duchene + Barrie + Elliott for Pietrangelo....?
Holy crap, somebody making an offer for Pietrangelo that actually offers good value? I'm shocked. Props good sir. However, I would have to say no. Not because the value is terrible, but just because Pietrangelo is our one player who is totally not replaceable.

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11-01-2012, 12:55 PM
  #66
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No from Avs on that one, we lose someone who we should keep who will improve as well as our best two PMD prospects (really, there is nothing after them). Pietrangelo would be wonderful, but it's not going to be worth giving up what we'd have to to get him.

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11-01-2012, 12:59 PM
  #67
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Would be pretty funny if the Avs ended up having the EJ and Petro both being righties problem. If we trade one of our Cs I'd want it to be something around Staz or Duchene for Yandle or OEL.

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11-01-2012, 01:26 PM
  #68
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No from Avs on that one, we lose someone who we should keep who will improve as well as our best two PMD prospects (really, there is nothing after them). Pietrangelo would be wonderful, but it's not going to be worth giving up what we'd have to to get him.
While it's a hefty price (I'd probably say Duchy + Elliott or Barrie makes more sense assuming Duchy rebounds) I'd still do it.

But personally I'm not interested in making a deal with St. Louis right now. We both have a need for top pairing lefty dmen and we currently only have a need for a #1 RW, but moreso next year after Hejduk retires and not really at the expense of one of our 3 centers whom we need to keep for now at least.

Plus, there's that whole argument over who really won the trade. It could get messy for awhile and I'm finally back to liking the the Blues fanbase again, would hate to set that back!

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11-01-2012, 01:34 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by FoppaForsberg View Post
Duchene + Barrie + Elliott for Pietrangelo....?
Value wise it's there probably. Would it ever happen? No

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11-01-2012, 01:35 PM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
While it's a hefty price (I'd probably say Duchy + Elliott or Barrie makes more sense assuming Duchy rebounds) I'd still do it.

But personally I'm not interested in making a deal with St. Louis right now. We both have a need for top pairing lefty dmen and we currently only have a need for a #1 RW, but moreso next year after Hejduk retires and not really at the expense of one of our 3 centers whom we need to keep for now at least.

Plus, there's that whole argument over who really won the trade. It could get messy for awhile and I'm finally back to liking the the Blues fanbase again, would hate to set that back!
Any sensible team realizes both teams won. Both traded from a position of strength to fill a hole. Heck, even as bad as Stewart was last year I still would want the Blues to make the trade. Just gotta ignore the trolls

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11-01-2012, 02:22 PM
  #71
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Plus, there's that whole argument over who really won the trade. It could get messy for awhile and I'm finally back to liking the the Blues fanbase again, would hate to set that back!
I still hold a grudge with our management not taking Stastny and you guys taking him. We took Scott freaking Jackson instead. He was right in our backyard at Chaminade, and we were like, "that Scott Jackson, man is he gonna be a player."

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11-01-2012, 03:01 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by FoppaForsberg View Post
Duchene + Barrie + Elliott for Pietrangelo....?
What a huge **** you to erik johnson that would be.

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11-01-2012, 03:14 PM
  #73
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What a huge **** you to erik johnson that would be.
Who cares?

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11-01-2012, 06:51 PM
  #74
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Who cares?
Erik Johnson?

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11-01-2012, 07:08 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by BleedBlue247 View Post
Holy crap, somebody making an offer for Pietrangelo that actually offers good value? I'm shocked. Props good sir. However, I would have to say no. Not because the value is terrible, but just because Pietrangelo is our one player who is totally not replaceable.
Hahaha woah, I was sure It'd get crucified for even mentioning Pietrangelo, Would help both teams in areas we both need. However it would also create a new hole for each team, so it's a little redundant.

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