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Old
11-01-2012, 03:46 PM
  #1001
Diamond Joe Quimby
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Originally Posted by topched View Post
Provided we'd spend the money...

I'd blow it on Sanchez and Jackson.

Morrow
Romero
Sanchez
Jackson
Happ/Alvarez


That rotation is good enough to compete... might be the deepest in the AL East, except for maybe the Rays.

Make a trade for a bat if possible, one that could fill the LF/2b hole, and away we go.
Ahh a man (or woman) after thy own heart. That would be the easiest, in terms of only costing money, way to accomplish my goal of reworking the rotation. I doubt AA does two signings north of $10M+ per year in one off-season, but its the way I'd certainly go about things.

I use the Rays as my benchmark, since they were arguably the best rotation in the AL (save for the Tigers). They accumulated 15 WAR, give or take, last year. That rotation you have up there is capable of eclipsing that. Of course, it wouldn't guarantee a thing, but there are no guarantees in sports. All you can do is make it look good on paper, and pray for performance.

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11-01-2012, 03:47 PM
  #1002
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Need to spend on other areas too, though, that we can address in free agency, so I'd prefer to add a second arm in trade instead. We've been talking about young, controllable guys on good deals - Anderson, Porcello, Ogando among others. That fills out your rotation while leaving a little cash in your wallet to add a bat.
Those would be great addition but why look at only young controllable arms. Its time for this franchise to go after the best talent and if its not young or controllable you have to bring in the best.

I understand controllable = budget and cheap but really if you go get a good guy that is past arb and maybe only has 1 or 2 years before FA who cares. Provide a winning team and people will come and play here.

I say you go after the best talent and worry about futur contracts when it comes up.

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11-01-2012, 03:48 PM
  #1003
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Anibal Sanchez
Tori Hunter
Kevin Youkilis

These are the three additions we need in order to be legit playoff contenders.

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Old
11-01-2012, 03:50 PM
  #1004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by topched View Post
Provided we'd spend the money...

I'd blow it on Sanchez and Jackson.

Morrow
Romero
Sanchez
Jackson
Happ/Alvarez


That rotation is good enough to compete... might be the deepest in the AL East, except for maybe the Rays.

Make a trade for a bat if possible, one that could fill the LF/2b hole, and away we go.
You mean
Sanchez
Jackson
Morrow
Romero
Happ

Morrow has a lower WAR over the last three years than either of Sanchez/Jackson. Romero shouldn't be penciled in above any of them until he fixes last year.

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Old
11-01-2012, 03:54 PM
  #1005
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Originally Posted by Dark Knight View Post
Anibal Sanchez
Tori Hunter
Kevin Youkilis

These are the three additions we need in order to be legit playoff contenders.
That would make alot of teams playoff contenders....maybe. Don't get your hopes up too high.

Look what Pujols and Greinke did for the Angels. They were good, but far from making them a lock for the postseason.

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Old
11-01-2012, 03:54 PM
  #1006
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Originally Posted by ryno23 View Post
Those would be great addition but why look at only young controllable arms. Its time for this franchise to go after the best talent and if its not young or controllable you have to bring in the best.

I understand controllable = budget and cheap but really if you go get a good guy that is past arb and maybe only has 1 or 2 years before FA who cares. Provide a winning team and people will come and play here.

I say you go after the best talent and worry about futur contracts when it comes up.
The young part is more important to me, though the control is also valuable. Pitchers tend to break down. I'd rather have the arm with some life left than be stuck holding the bag on a guy who used to be good i.e. the Dan Haren's and Johan Santana's of the world. The Oakland model is cheap, but it's also very smart in playing percentages.

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Old
11-01-2012, 03:55 PM
  #1007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bjindaho View Post
You mean
Sanchez
Jackson
Morrow
Romero
Happ

Morrow has a lower WAR over the last three years than either of Sanchez/Jackson. Romero shouldn't be penciled in above any of them until he fixes last year.
You are right

Was just going on our rotation from last year... giving preference to those two guys.

It'll actually be interesting to see what happens with Ricky. Touted as the "leader of the staff" the last couple years, I don't think he'll be given that title with whoever the new coach is.

But as of right now, I still think he would be the guy to get the ball in game 1.

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11-01-2012, 03:57 PM
  #1008
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Originally Posted by topched View Post
You are right

Was just going on our rotation from last year... giving preference to those two guys.

It'll actually be interesting to see what happens with Ricky. Touted as the "leader of the staff" the last couple years, I don't think he'll be given that title with whoever the new coach is.

But as of right now, I still think he would be the guy to get the ball in game 1.
Morrow is the staff ace now, I can't see how he does not start opening day next year unless we get Grienke.

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Old
11-01-2012, 03:58 PM
  #1009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diamond Joe Quimby View Post
Ahh a man (or woman) after thy own heart. That would be the easiest, in terms of only costing money, way to accomplish my goal of reworking the rotation. I doubt AA does two signings north of $10M+ per year in one off-season, but its the way I'd certainly go about things.

I use the Rays as my benchmark, since they were arguably the best rotation in the AL (save for the Tigers). They accumulated 15 WAR, give or take, last year. That rotation you have up there is capable of eclipsing that. Of course, it wouldn't guarantee a thing, but there are no guarantees in sports. All you can do is make it look good on paper, and pray for performance.
That rotation is above average but defiantly not elite

Teams that have better rotations:

Rangers, Rays, Tigers, Giants, Nats, Angles, Reds, Cards than possibly A'S Wsox, Dodgers depending on what they do...

IMO Morrow has to be the number 2... Romero the # 4 and Happ/Alvarez the number 5.

My dream:



Johnson/Shields
Morrow
Sanchez/Haren
Romero
Alvarez


You take a hit from the farm to aquire such an ace but it would be worth it to have one of the best staffs in all of MLB

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Old
11-01-2012, 04:00 PM
  #1010
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Originally Posted by Woodman19 View Post
Morrow is the staff ace now, I can't see how he does not start opening day next year unless we get Grienke.
I agree. Even if Sanchez is signed, I see Morrow being labeled as the ACE, and leading the staff. If healthy for a full year (200IP), he's capable of a 5 WAR season. He can be that good.

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11-01-2012, 04:00 PM
  #1011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by topched View Post
Provided we'd spend the money...

I'd blow it on Sanchez and Jackson.

Morrow
Romero
Sanchez
Jackson
Happ/Alvarez


That rotation is good enough to compete... might be the deepest in the AL East, except for maybe the Rays.

Make a trade for a bat if possible, one that could fill the LF/2b hole, and away we go.
It'd be deep, but I think to win in the AL East (or playoffs in general) you need that ace, #1 pitcher.

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Old
11-01-2012, 04:06 PM
  #1012
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Originally Posted by ryno23 View Post
Those would be great addition but why look at only young controllable arms. Its time for this franchise to go after the best talent and if its not young or controllable you have to bring in the best.

I understand controllable = budget and cheap but really if you go get a good guy that is past arb and maybe only has 1 or 2 years before FA who cares. Provide a winning team and people will come and play here.

I say you go after the best talent and worry about futur contracts when it comes up.
I know people are kind of allergic to the word "controllable" after hearin it from Antopolous and Beeston so often over the past three years. But the reason to try for "young and controllable" is to ensure competitiveness in coming years as well.

The budget is going up this year, great, but it's not always going to go up - it's unlikely we'll ever hit $140-150 million, for example. So knowing that we need to add an arm, it's worth trying to get one that's going to be cost-effective going forward, particularly since we also expecting to add a second arm via free agency (which is pretty much the opposite of cost-efficient).

Managing down salaries during this process isn't about getting inferior players, it's about maximizing your opportunities to add other assets to the lineup, both this season and going forward.

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Old
11-01-2012, 04:07 PM
  #1013
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It'd be deep, but I think to win in the AL East (or playoffs in general) you need that ace, #1 pitcher.
Morrow would of thrown 200 Innings last year if he had not got injured and posted a 1.11 WHIP with a 2.96 ERA. If you get that out of him next year that is certainly a #1 Ace pitcher to me.

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Old
11-01-2012, 04:15 PM
  #1014
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I like Ricky. He can be a quality starter who will be hurt in stats like WAR. But he really stunk last year.

That's why we need a new pitching coach (along with Happ).

Interesting to note that Ricky has a higher WAR than Morrow over the last 4 and that his 3 before this one is better than Morrow's last 3. If we are going to contend, we need Morrow to go into the year as a 3, and let him become a number 1. If he is the ace, we have a rotation where Happ is our 3 or 4.

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Old
11-01-2012, 04:21 PM
  #1015
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodman19 View Post
Morrow would of thrown 200 Innings last year if he had not got injured and posted a 1.11 WHIP with a 2.96 ERA. If you get that out of him next year that is certainly a #1 Ace pitcher to me.
I would also argue that the A's, Orioles, Cardinals (No Carpenter for most of the season) all teams who made the playoffs, didn't have true aces.

We even saw that a guy like Verlander, maybe the best pitcher in the world, can't win you a world series alone.

I don't think a true #1 ace is a necessity. But it is a necessity to have a guy (preferably more than one) who can give you a chance to win every night against the guys like Sabathia, Price, Verlander, Darvish etc.

Morrow, if healthy, can be that guy.

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11-01-2012, 04:21 PM
  #1016
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Naming starters #2,3,4 etc are all just semantics. We need 5 good pitchers and you can name them whatever the **** you want to lol.

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Old
11-01-2012, 04:22 PM
  #1017
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Morrow would of thrown 200 Innings last year if he had not got injured and posted a 1.11 WHIP with a 2.96 ERA. If you get that out of him next year that is certainly a #1 Ace pitcher to me.
Brett Lindros woulda been a star if he didn't get injured...

If Brandon hadn't gotten hurt, he might have gotten fatigued. We don't know...

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11-01-2012, 04:29 PM
  #1018
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Originally Posted by Dark Knight View Post
Anibal Sanchez
Tori Hunter
Kevin Youkilis

These are the three additions we need in order to be legit playoff contenders.
Somebody posted his numbers on a O's board and they were horrible. Not just bad. They were worse then what Lind would put up. We do not want him.

Quote:
Youkilis outside of Fenway/Cell - .177/.266/.291
Youkilis in September - .219/.306/.344

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11-01-2012, 04:30 PM
  #1019
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Where is Nemesis to start the new thread?

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11-01-2012, 04:44 PM
  #1020
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Jim Salisbury of CSNPhilly.com hears word that Michael Bourn could be looking for as much as $100MM in free agency. The Phillies would probably be reluctant to spend that kind of money on a 30-year-old player who relies heavily on his legs, Salisbury writes.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/1...les-bourn.html

Holy crap. Bourn is a very solid player for potentially 100M? Wow.

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Old
11-01-2012, 04:47 PM
  #1021
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Brett Lindros woulda been a star if he didn't get injured...

If Brandon hadn't gotten hurt, he might have gotten fatigued. We don't know...
I agree with this. I hope he becomes an ace this season, but we don't know.

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Old
11-01-2012, 04:56 PM
  #1022
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Jim Salisbury of CSNPhilly.com hears word that Michael Bourn could be looking for as much as $100MM in free agency. The Phillies would probably be reluctant to spend that kind of money on a 30-year-old player who relies heavily on his legs, Salisbury writes.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/1...les-bourn.html

Holy crap. Bourn is a very solid player for potentially 100M? Wow.
Scott Boras.

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Old
11-01-2012, 04:59 PM
  #1023
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I guess Nem isn't around? I'm on it.

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