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Old
11-01-2012, 09:04 PM
  #126
dcyhabs
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Originally Posted by eklund the clown View Post
Construction workers ,factory labourers,chainsaw operators ,miners and all people in these lines of work give their health up also to feed their families and pay the bills and they are not making millions like the greedy players.
Sure, but how many of these people are among the top thousand in the world at what they do? We'll never know and those top construction workers and miners are hugely underpaid, but 99.9% of construction workers are even with 99.9% of hockey players; it's only a few hundred hockey players who make much money.

There aren't many fields where you can tell statistically that your employees are the best in the world at what they do. Not many fields that look for the best, either, most look for cheap people in Asia to do shoddy work.

I'm not saying the players are right, but I'm saying the owners are wrong.

I think the conflict illustrates that the whole union structure in North America is messed up, too. In Germany, Japan, other Western European countries, there is a framework for negotiation that allows for compromise. In North America you get nothing but escalating conflicts where neither side wants to back down even though it's obvious that a compromise would be best for everyone. Consequences of constant union-busting...

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11-01-2012, 09:05 PM
  #127
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
Where did you hear he is completing his degree? I'm curious.
Now I'm curious as well. And whether he has one,or more years to go.
If one, he didn't have to start last year. So I wonder if the possibility of a
strike/lock-out entered into this.

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Old
11-01-2012, 09:15 PM
  #128
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Now I'm curious as well. And whether he has one,or more years to go.
If one, he didn't have to start last year. So I wonder if the possibility of a
strike/lock-out entered into this.
He played 3 years at Clarkson, so I'm assuming he'd have one year, or close to it, left for a degree.

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Old
11-01-2012, 09:20 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by dcyhabs View Post
Sure, but how many of these people are among the top thousand in the world at what they do? We'll never know and those top construction workers and miners are hugely underpaid, but 99.9% of construction workers are even with 99.9% of hockey players; it's only a few hundred hockey players who make much money.

There aren't many fields where you can tell statistically that your employees are the best in the world at what they do. Not many fields that look for the best, either, most look for cheap people in Asia to do shoddy work.

I'm not saying the players are right, but I'm saying the owners are wrong.

I think the conflict illustrates that the whole union structure in North America is messed up, too. In Germany, Japan, other Western European countries, there is a framework for negotiation that allows for compromise. In North America you get nothing but escalating conflicts where neither side wants to back down even though it's obvious that a compromise would be best for everyone. Consequences of constant union-busting...
I suspect your point is valid about traditional labour unions. But I don't see
many similarities between NHLPA and a labour union. Labour unions were
built around the idea that, everyone gets a fair wage or everyone will walk
off the job, and nobody should replace them. The NHLPA's ideal position
is that everyone negotiates his own wage.

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Old
11-01-2012, 09:20 PM
  #130
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Football will always be tops, for Good reason, it's a really great sport!, there's no doubt! I watch a lot of USA Sports News, You never see Hockey, seems to be a pecking order... Football-Basketball-Baseball- Nascar--Golf-Tennis...... Sure Hockey is way up in Cities like Boston, but that's just 1 USA City.

I'm worried about Fehr, he already helped destroy baseball in Montreal.. he might be asking for too much! The Players hired the guy to be tough, but they have to be realistic also!
Fehr didn't destroy Baseball in Montreal. It was a couple of the rich owners (Steinbrenner and Angelos) who bailed on the other owners on the eve of a season that was to begin with scabs. Steinbrenner and Angelos didn't want to see a massive hit to their revenues and broke the solidarity by deciding last minute to go with MLB players. The Expos who had given up the most in that strike (highest ticket sales in years and big time playoff revenues) were then forced to hold a fire-sale and never recovered.

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Old
11-01-2012, 09:34 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Part of the reason Erik Cole came to Montreal is that he is completing a degree at nearby Clarkson College, or maybe has completed at this point. You'll get a better education there than at Concordia or UQAM.

I wouldn't be surprised if Cole is smarter than most of this forum.

Erik Cole is a hardworking, productive player who has put in the time to excel. He came off a career year at age 33 and probably just wanted to get back on the ice. He is probably tired of having a lockout every five years. You would be too.
What are you basing this on? Because it's American it's automatically better?

Clarkson university is a school of 3000 students. That's peanuts. It's produced noone of high society. A few pro-athletes, a congressman and te CEO of some power company. It is a Div.3 school in athelitics save for hockey. To give you a comparison, my high school was 1200 students. Concordia is 45 000 students. UQAM is 41 000 students. The only reason people know of Clarkson is there hockey program. Erik Cole likely went there because he got a free ride and it's close to his home.

Please back up your statement.

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Old
11-01-2012, 09:49 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by macavoy View Post
MLB went from being America's past time to being a blip on the radar.

I mean I hate literally hate the nba but the nba stirs up way more passion in America than the MLB does.
It's simply not true. NFL had passed the MLB before the work stoppage in '94 and while the NBA may have more national teams, teams who draw all over because of their extreme lack of parity (which can be good) but they certainly have many more problems in most of their individual markets, the MLB is certainly more stable.

There's a lot of ignorance towards the MLB, their financial system and their level of parity around here.

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Old
11-01-2012, 09:50 PM
  #133
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you know this is a lock out right ? Its not a strike they cant bring in replacements
Right. forgot. Just want hockey. Me mad

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Old
11-01-2012, 09:54 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by yoyo999 View Post
What are you basing this on? Because it's American it's automatically better?
I said it's better than Concordia and UQAM, I didn't say it's better than McGill and U de M.

Quote:
Originally Posted by yoyo999 View Post
It's produced noone of high society. A few pro-athletes, a congressman and te CEO of some power company. It is a Div.3 school in athelitics save for hockey. To give you a comparison, my high school was 1200 students. Concordia is 45 000 students. UQAM is 41 000 students. The only reason people know of Clarkson is there hockey program. Erik Cole likely went there because he got a free ride and it's close to his home.

Please back up your statement.
Notable Alumni
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clarkso...Notable_alumni

12 colleges whose job payoff is better than Harvard's
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/12-co...ry?id=17273504
median starting salary is $58,000 for Clarkson

Quote:
Originally Posted by yoyo999 View Post
Clarkson university is a school of 3000 students. That's peanuts.
There are a lot of small schools in the USA. Caltech has 1,000 undergraduate students for example. Harvard has 7,200. Kenyon has 1,640. All are elite institutions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by yoyo999 View Post
To give you a comparison, my high school was 1200 students. Concordia is 45 000 students. UQAM is 41 000 students.
Indira Gandhi National Open University, located in New Delhi, India, has 3,500,000 students enrolled. By your criteria for quality it must be the best university on Earth.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._by_enrollment

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Old
11-01-2012, 10:26 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by YOUTH OF HABS View Post
Agree 100%

I don't understand millionaires playing a game of chicken with billionaires.
So remember, if you have less money, don't even bother trying, just accept that the richer people will always get their way.

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Old
11-01-2012, 11:14 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by 76ftw View Post
So remember, if you have less money, don't even bother trying, just accept that the richer people will always get their way.
I don't think most NHL owners are simply being greedy given the losses they made but economically speaking it's how this world works 99% of the time.

Watch this mind-blowing documentary: The Century of the Self - Adam Curtis

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Old
11-01-2012, 11:51 PM
  #137
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So remember, if you have less money, don't even bother trying, just accept that the richer people will always get their way.
Thing is, would cole get that contract in europe? probably not. We talk about a market for players but NHL is the only one who can pay them that type of money(for everyone).

In real life situations if company A doesn't pay you, company B just might. In the NHL's situation, NHL doesn't pay you and not one else will give you that type of money.

In cases like these it's no surprise owners have that type of power. There is no alternatives. Take it or leave it or go play elsewhere for less money.

Being a professional athlete isn't an easy job but its also a luxury, a blessing to be at that level. Fact of the matter is players are right to feel wronged, but their stupid to believe the money they have is actual market value. As far as i'm concerned the ONLY market which pays players that much for hockey is the NHL(again, consistently throughout the league, not a select few players). That being said, when the NHL isn't active(aka, lockout), no other market can compete so their alternatives are pretty much non-existent. The longer they wait, the worse it becomes.

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Old
11-02-2012, 12:32 AM
  #138
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
There are a lot of small schools in the USA. Caltech has 1,000 undergraduate students for example. Harvard has 7,200. Kenyon has 1,640. All are elite institutions.
Clarkson isn't exactly Caltech or Harvard. Clarkson is unranked in the US News American school ranking as well as both the QS and Times Higher Education international rankings. Concordia is unranked in Time but is ranked 501-550 in the QS rankings and 306 for the Humanities. UQAM is unranked.

Concordia might not be McGill but I'd say it has a better reputation than Clarkson. Of course it depends on what you are studying, since Concordia is a much bigger school and so it has programs that range from very good to mediocre.

The salary list you posted is very misleading because those schools are highly specialized in one or two fields. I'm very familiar with Molloy and Maritime College in NY, they are essentially vocational schools filled with older continuing education students. That makes them very valuable for certain professions but a degree from one of those two means almost nothing if it's not in one or two fields.

Clarkson is a good engineering school if you want to be an engineer in upstate NY, even then US News ranks it the 121st best engineering school in the US, meaning we ain't talking Caltech.

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Old
11-02-2012, 01:02 AM
  #139
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
Clarkson isn't exactly Caltech or Harvard. Clarkson is unranked in the US News American school ranking as well as both the QS and Times Higher Education international rankings. Concordia is unranked in Time but is ranked 501-550 in the QS rankings and 306 for the Humanities. UQAM is unranked.

Concordia might not be McGill but I'd say it has a better reputation than Clarkson. Of course it depends on what you are studying, since Concordia is a much bigger school and so it has programs that range from very good to mediocre.

The salary list you posted is very misleading because those schools are highly specialized in one or two fields. I'm very familiar with Molloy and Maritime College in NY, they are essentially vocational schools filled with older continuing education students. That makes them very valuable for certain professions but a degree from one of those two means almost nothing if it's not in one or two fields.

Clarkson is a good engineering school if you want to be an engineer in upstate NY, even then US News ranks it the 121st best engineering school in the US, meaning we ain't talking Caltech.
Well then, I guess the real question is, what is Cole studying. And in a
more general way, what sort of academic standards would he have to meet.
The original question was of course, whether he is a moron, or not.
DAchampion, and myself were arguing the "not" side.

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Old
11-02-2012, 01:37 AM
  #140
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I'm trying to care about this - but I just don't. At this point, I'm enjoying soccer so much I couldn't care less if NHL comes back unless they sign like a 10-year-deal.

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Old
11-02-2012, 02:01 AM
  #141
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I really doubt he's going to retire but if he does... well...helllloooo Habs tank nation!

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Old
11-02-2012, 02:19 AM
  #142
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I'm trying to care about this - but I just don't. At this point, I'm enjoying soccer so much I couldn't care less if NHL comes back unless they sign like a 10-year-deal.
10 year? Try 100, I'm so tired of these lockouts and its only my second one. But really, soccer? I'd rather death by papercuts.

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Old
11-02-2012, 02:20 AM
  #143
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How the top 4 teams are guaranteed to make the playoffs every year because they are rich?
so much for your good intentions. Get those cowboys out of the league and let us buy decent players. wouldn't that be sweet as habs fans to get the players we want because we have money ? I sincerely doubt that the revenue sharing mechanism is more honest in any way. How are the florida panthers allowed to be in front of us.? **** them.

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11-02-2012, 02:23 AM
  #144
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so much for your good intentions. Get those cowboys out of the league and let us buy decent players. wouldn't that be sweet as habs fans to get the players we want because we have money ? I sincerely doubt that the revenue sharing mechanism is more honest in any way. How are the florida panthers allowed to be in front of us. **** them.
I agree. I mean parity is nice but isn't it nice to see a team being rewarded for having a rabid fanbase? I wouldn't mind so much paying the fortune we have to pay to sit in the Bell Center if it explained why our team is so much better than a random sunbelt team that has to hand out free hot dogs and 20$ tickets to get people in the arena.

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Old
11-02-2012, 02:38 AM
  #145
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so much for your good intentions. Get those cowboys out of the league and let us buy decent players. wouldn't that be sweet as habs fans to get the players we want because we have money ? I sincerely doubt that the revenue sharing mechanism is more honest in any way. How are the florida panthers allowed to be in front of us.? **** them.
Should they be allowed to be in front of us? Sure. Every team should be able to have a chance of being the best one out there.
It's the administration's job however to make sure we are better than them.

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Old
11-02-2012, 02:59 AM
  #146
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Originally Posted by eklund the clown View Post
Seriously these guys are crying hard times that they need a bigger piece of the pie when in reality most of them could retire after a year or 2 at the most.They couldn't care less about Mars Svenson or the guy selling hot dogs ,or the rink workers or the fans or anyone else but their spoiled greedy behinds.Bring on the replacements.It may not be the greatest to watch for a couple of years but with a new reasonable system in place it would be all worth it in the long run.
like the owners care about the businesses around the rinks losing money and part time employees losing their job cause of the lock out... hell, they dont even care about their own hot-dog sellers...

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Old
11-02-2012, 03:05 AM
  #147
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I agree with a lot of your post except the bolded part. Well I agree with that too but don't care. I am a roofer/construction worker. My knees and back are nearly shot. Wheres my millions? There are far worse of people out there than me too. My sister looks after a guy with MS. That guy wishes he could walk, let alone make millions playing a game. Um, look at the guys who put their life and health on the line for real. In an upside down world does a guy playing a game earn millions more than a firefighter, police officer or a soldier.

It must be sickening to all those families to have to listen to news and sports shows about this when they just lost their son or daughter in the line of fire......so these rich sucks can do this.
are you one of the best in the world in your field ?
if we were to make a poster of you at work, how many you think we'd sell ?
how many jerseys with your face on it would sell ?
how many "roofers forum" exist on the net ?
how many journalists cover the roofing industry ?



and you wonder where are your millions ? really ?

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Old
11-02-2012, 03:20 AM
  #148
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are you one of the best in the world in your field ?
if we were to make a poster of you at work, how many you think we'd sell ?
how many jerseys with your face on it would sell ?
how many "roofers forum" exist on the net ?
how many journalists cover the roofing industry ?



and you wonder where are your millions ? really ?
I think his point is that these players are living up their dreams, and getting paid millions of dollars at the same time, and yet they complain. They do look like spoiled brats.
I'm not saying they should just shut up and agree to everything and anything the owners dictate, but this idea that they're trying to portray as if they're getting ripped off by the league is pretty foolish.

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Old
11-02-2012, 03:27 AM
  #149
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I think his point is that these players are living up their dreams, and getting paid millions of dollars at the same time, and yet they complain. They do look like spoiled brats.
I'm not saying they should just shut up and agree to everything and anything the owners dictate, but this idea that they're trying to portray as if they're getting ripped off by the league is pretty foolish.
It was never Cole's dream to be a locked-out NHL player.

His dream was to be a great NHLer. He got to live his dream last year, and we never heard any complaints.

A lockout every five years is certainly a ripoff in my opinion. It's a year of idleness to the players, and a 20% slash in their lifetime earnings.

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Old
11-02-2012, 05:34 AM
  #150
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Comments like this really piss me off. I really don't think these players have ANY idea what the real world is like and just how lucky they are to be in the situation they're in.

If any player would rather retire than endure the hardships of being a professional athlete than by all means they should. They should also remember the reason the can retire as multi millionaires in the early 30s is because of the terrible job they previously had.

Gimme a break. Maybe he needs a bit of cheese with that whine.

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