HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > The Business of Hockey
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, and NHL revenues.

Hamilton or Toronto2/Markham

View Poll Results: Where
Hamilton 107 47.56%
GTA2/Markham 118 52.44%
Voters: 225. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
11-01-2012, 06:12 PM
  #201
Urban Explorer*
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: West T.dot
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,456
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by langcam View Post
Exactly.. Most people suggesting Markham over Hamilton must not be familiar with the Golden Horseshoe. Hamilton will draw heavily from Niagara, Brantford, Guelph, and KWL and is still "closer" for Oakville and parts of Mississauga residents than Markham.

It is a far bigger market. Also, you have a better chance of converting Leafs fans the farther away from the city of Toronto you get..
This.

lol @ markham. You realize that it is the 2nd smallest GTA area only slightly bigger than durham and is mostly filled with asian immigrants who don't give two craps about hockey. Not to mention it's not ever accessible via highway.

Hamilton, Mississauga, Brampton are all way better choices. Seriously I've lived in Toronto for 32 years, I've gone to Markham once in my life last week to pick up a TV from an asian ware house. The traffic there is a nightmare with so little highways. There are way more hockey fans on the west side of Toronto BY FAR. Do you people ever get out of your house?

Urban Explorer* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-01-2012, 07:49 PM
  #202
Confucius
Registered User
 
Confucius's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,486
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Urban Explorer View Post
This.

lol @ markham. You realize that it is the 2nd smallest GTA area only slightly bigger than durham and is mostly filled with asian immigrants who don't give two craps about hockey. Not to mention it's not ever accessible via highway.

Hamilton, Mississauga, Brampton are all way better choices. Seriously I've lived in Toronto for 32 years, I've gone to Markham once in my life last week to pick up a TV from an asian ware house. The traffic there is a nightmare with so little highways. There are way more hockey fans on the west side of Toronto BY FAR. Do you people ever get out of your house?
One of the silliest arguments out there, Markham is smaller than Hamilton. You realize Markham shares borders with Scarborough and North York both municipalities have populations of over 600,000. Really the political boundary is just a street, one side of which is in Scarborough or North York the other being in Markham.

Confucius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-01-2012, 09:59 PM
  #203
mikeo1
Registered User
 
mikeo1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,464
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Urban Explorer View Post
This.

lol @ markham. You realize that it is the 2nd smallest GTA area only slightly bigger than durham and is mostly filled with asian immigrants who don't give two craps about hockey. Not to mention it's not ever accessible via highway.

Hamilton, Mississauga, Brampton are all way better choices. Seriously I've lived in Toronto for 32 years, I've gone to Markham once in my life last week to pick up a TV from an asian ware house. The traffic there is a nightmare with so little highways. There are way more hockey fans on the west side of Toronto BY FAR. Do you people ever get out of your house?
The 407 goes through Markham and runs right past where the proposed stadium is going to be located.

mikeo1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-02-2012, 12:03 AM
  #204
langcam
Registered User
 
langcam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Burlington
Country: Canada
Posts: 411
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeo1 View Post
The 407 goes through Markham and runs right past where the proposed stadium is going to be located.
I think people underestimate the passion (and money) out at this end of the GTA.

As an added bonus, the rivalry already exists between Hamilton and Toronto. Not sure how much hatred there is among teams in the GTHL but you get the idea..

I will say the public transit system in that area is a huge bonus for a Markham pitch.

I can see people in Niagara drooling over having accessible NHL hockey. Or people in KWL. While the density of Markham, Richmond Hill, etc.. is great. I personally think it is offset by the demographics and existing fans of the leafs. At least by putting a team in Hamilton you are able to have a better territorial rivalry.

Hamiltonians love the game, they deserve a team and I have little concern about them being able to support it. I may be more marketable to introduce another team into the QEW rivalry. More marketable than a clash of the DVP or something..

langcam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-02-2012, 08:02 AM
  #205
Ryan34222
Registered User
 
Ryan34222's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Hamilton
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,147
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeo1 View Post
The 407 goes through Markham and runs right past where the proposed stadium is going to be located.
That's true but trying to get to the 407 from anywhere south is a freakin nightmare during rushhour

Ryan34222 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-02-2012, 08:24 AM
  #206
paulster2626
Don't Mess with me
 
paulster2626's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,134
vCash: 400
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan34222 View Post
That's true but trying to get to the 407 from anywhere south is a freakin nightmare during rushhour
Where I live, trying to get to the ACC is just not happening during rush hour. Traveling to a stadium in Markham along the 407, however, is easy.

There's a looooooot of people in the GTA who would find this new location very convenient.

paulster2626 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-02-2012, 10:17 AM
  #207
Ryan34222
Registered User
 
Ryan34222's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Hamilton
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,147
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by paulster2626 View Post
Where I live, trying to get to the ACC is just not happening during rush hour. Traveling to a stadium in Markham along the 407, however, is easy.

There's a looooooot of people in the GTA who would find this new location very convenient.
Sure but the majority of the population of GTA is well below the 407.. theres already enough traffic stress in around that area.. imagine another 10000 cars all trying to get to Markham..

my man JROWE said it before.. Markham team only serves GTA.. a Hamilton Team serves GTA plus lower SO.. since we are centre of the universe and all

Ryan34222 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-02-2012, 10:49 AM
  #208
Uncle Slick
Registered User
 
Uncle Slick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Ontario, Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 151
vCash: 500
Both.

And it will come through expansion, not re-location.

For 3 reasons:
1) It's a good collective business move for 28 other clubs (new revenue that's free of an expense), if it hurts Pegula or MLSE, current CBA situation reflects that greed heals all wounds - money talks;
2) It's a good hockey move, GTA is a huge hockey market, 5.5 million people and 100's of multi national corporate head offices. Can't see corps that buy tickets and advertise at ACC suddenly stop, in fact I see these same corps buying tickets and advertising at both new venues.
3) New York Rangers were always king in New York, but it didn't stop the league from parking the Islanders and Devils in their back yard. The NHL would continue to rule in Toronto with T2 and would also do so in Hamilton, neither would struggle off-the-ice like the Devils or Islanders are now.

Quebec City & Seattle will get teams through re-location.

Uncle Slick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-02-2012, 11:01 AM
  #209
Uncle Slick
Registered User
 
Uncle Slick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Ontario, Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 151
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan34222 View Post
That's true but trying to get to the 407 from anywhere south is a freakin nightmare during rushhour
MSCEE & GO Transit working on an MOU, Enterprise Boulevard (where the facility is being built), is almost on top of an establish GO rail line.

Getting to the new Markham rink isn't going to be any more of a challenge than getting to Copp's.

Uncle Slick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-02-2012, 12:14 PM
  #210
Flukeshot
Holmgren activate!
 
Flukeshot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Milton, Ont
Country: Antarctica
Posts: 1,764
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Urban Explorer View Post
Hamilton, Mississauga, Brampton are all way better choices. Seriously I've lived in Toronto for 32 years, I've gone to Markham once in my life last week to pick up a TV from an asian ware house. The traffic there is a nightmare with so little highways. There are way more hockey fans on the west side of Toronto BY FAR. Do you people ever get out of your house?
I've gotta second the call out for Mississauga/Brampton.
-401, 403 and 407 all run through Mississauga
-6th most populated city in Canada at 730,000
-Brampton 9th at 530,000
-Both ahead of 10th place Hamilton
-only 45 minutes away from Hamilton via the 407
-Neighbours Milton, the fastest growing city in Canada, should reach 250,000 within 10 years.
-Big business has already moved corporate offices from Toronto to Missisauga and could provide corporate sponsorships.

Only problem is there is no arena. That's a big problem, but there is still a lot of land to drop an arena with parking.

So my vote is GTA2, just not Markham.

Flukeshot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-02-2012, 04:03 PM
  #211
Ryan34222
Registered User
 
Ryan34222's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Hamilton
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,147
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flukeshot View Post
I've gotta second the call out for Mississauga/Brampton.
-401, 403 and 407 all run through Mississauga
-6th most populated city in Canada at 730,000
-Brampton 9th at 530,000
-Both ahead of 10th place Hamilton
-only 45 minutes away from Hamilton via the 407
-Neighbours Milton, the fastest growing city in Canada, should reach 250,000 within 10 years.
-Big business has already moved corporate offices from Toronto to Missisauga and could provide corporate sponsorships.

Only problem is there is no arena. That's a big problem, but there is still a lot of land to drop an arena with parking.

So my vote is GTA2, just not Markham.
dont like Mississauga (lived there for awhile.. Missasnobians have no souls) but its better than Markham.. i wouldnt support a team anywhere other than Hamilton but if its on the West end of Mississauga it may have a chance.. they could still be called 'the Toronto Suburbs'

Ryan34222 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-02-2012, 06:43 PM
  #212
Faidh ar Rud Eigin
Modhnóirí Claonta
 
Faidh ar Rud Eigin's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Transcendent
Country: Guernsey
Posts: 15,999
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyrophorus View Post
No. It will be like Ottawa/Montreal and Quebec who all share a
broadcast area.
Broadcast area is irrelevant. The Toronto Blue Jays broadcasting area is all of Canada, does that mean they can veto a team in Vancouver? Its the geography that matters, and Waterloo Region/Kitchener do not have have the problem Hamilton does. Markham has less of a problem than Hamilton.

Faidh ar Rud Eigin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-03-2012, 08:46 AM
  #213
GuelphStormer
Registered User
 
GuelphStormer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Guelph, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,769
vCash: 500
if the commissioner of the league had any sense, he would have placed a franchise in hamilton years ago and another one somewhere in the GTA more recently. but he let his ego get in the way of good business. let's not turn this into an either/or fight. the area can easily support both teams, and make both of them top eight in revenues. to argue otherwise is just silly.

the original question here should have been which city gets a team first. and that is clear ... hamilton. it already has an arena (upgradable within mere months), owners in waiting, a committed and capable fanbase, and now a professional arena manager. it's a no brainer. markham simply wont be viable for years.

the idea of placing a team in london or kw, camb, guelph is utterly ridiculous. almost as ridiculous as putting a team in phoenix.

GuelphStormer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-05-2012, 08:25 AM
  #214
Jtown
Registered User
 
Jtown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Fairfax, Virginia
Posts: 10,374
vCash: 539
Toronto 2 could be successful if they can get a guy like crosby and have success on the ice , while TML struggle.

Jtown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-05-2012, 09:24 AM
  #215
Bryan574
RON PAUL 2012
 
Bryan574's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Hamilton,ont
Country: Canada
Posts: 270
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jtown View Post
Toronto 2 could be successful if they can get a guy like crosby and have success on the ice , while TML struggle.
Lol.. stars really have to align. You can make that argument for most teams.

Bryan574 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-05-2012, 01:17 PM
  #216
No Fun Shogun
Global Moderator
34-38-61-10-13
 
No Fun Shogun's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Chicagoland, IL
Country: Fiji
Posts: 25,043
vCash: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jtown View Post
Toronto 2 could be successful if they can get a guy like crosby and have success on the ice , while TML struggle.
The Clippers were able to be a profitable team despite being a Mickey Mouse organization for years while the Lakers won championships. The same would almost assuredly be true for a second team in the GTA, as I think a comparison between Toronto/hockey and L.A./basketball is analogous.

No Fun Shogun is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
11-05-2012, 04:57 PM
  #217
NoShowWilly
Registered User
 
NoShowWilly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: North Delta
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,107
vCash: 500
id say make it an expansion team in markham then put it in the other eastern division that is being proposed with an expansion to 32 teams. expansion team in quebec. phoenix to seattle(or not, whatever)

four eight-team divisions:

Western Division:

Vancouver
Calgary
Edmonton
Seattle/Phoenix
San jose
Los Angeles
Anaheim
Colorado

Central Division:

Winnipeg
Minnesota
Dallas
St. Louis
Chicago
Detroit
Nashville
Columbus

North-South Division:

Toronto Maple Leafs
Ottawa
Montreal
Quebec City
Buffalo
Boston
Florida
Tampa Bay

Atlantic Division:

Toronto 2
Pittsburgh
Philadelphia
New York
New York
New Jersey
Washington
Carolina

bring in popular teams to Toronto that many more times a year. Give toronto fans a reason to go to toronto 2 games regularly.

Option 1
teams play every other team twice for 62 games.
Play your own division twice more for another 14. (76 game season.)
_____________
Option 2
teams play every other team twice for 62 games.
Play own division twice more for another 14 games. (76 games)
then sub divisions to play the extra 6. (82 game season.)

subdivisions:

Northwest:
Vancouver, Edmonton, Calgary, Seattle/Colorado

Southwest:
LA, Sanjose, Anaheim, Colorado/Phoenix

Central West:
Dallas, Winnipeg, Minnesota, St. Louis

Central East:
Detroit, Columbus, Chicago, Nashville

Atlantic West: (doesn't make much sense)
Toronto, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Carolina

Atlantic East:
Washington, New Jersey, New York, New York

North South West:
Toronto, Buffalo, Tampa Bay, Ottawa/Florida

North South East:
Boston, Montreal, Quebec, Florida/Ottawa

(feel free to move the sub divisions around. I just think more money is to be made having the two florida teams separated.)
__________
Option 3
play every team once. (31 games)
play own division 7 more times for 49 games. (80 game season)
__________
Option 4
play every team once (31 games)
play the other division in traditional east west for 8 games (39 total)
Cross Conference 8 games alternating divisions each year.(47 total)
play own division 5 more times for 35 (82 games)
__________
Option 5
play every team once 31 games
play the other division in traditional east west for 8 games (39 total)
play the other division in traditional east west 4 of the 8 teams at home, 4 on the road, alternating each season (47 total)
play own division 5 more times for 35 (82 games)

NoShowWilly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-05-2012, 05:03 PM
  #218
Ryan34222
Registered User
 
Ryan34222's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Hamilton
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,147
vCash: 500
i guess by default Hamilton wins? i mean with Markhams arena deal looking like its about to have the rug pulled out from under it, it really only leaves one NHL sized arena in the Golden Horseshoe..

Hamilton FTW!

Ryan34222 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-05-2012, 05:07 PM
  #219
No Fun Shogun
Global Moderator
34-38-61-10-13
 
No Fun Shogun's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Chicagoland, IL
Country: Fiji
Posts: 25,043
vCash: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan34222 View Post
i guess by default Hamilton wins? i mean with Markhams arena deal looking like its about to have the rug pulled out from under it, it really only leaves one NHL sized arena in the Golden Horseshoe..

Hamilton FTW!
Hold your horsies, Quebec City and Seattle are almost assuredly ahead of any place in Ontario regardless.

No Fun Shogun is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
11-05-2012, 05:12 PM
  #220
Ryan34222
Registered User
 
Ryan34222's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Hamilton
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,147
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by No Fun Shogun View Post
Hold your horsies, Quebec City and Seattle are almost assuredly ahead of any place in Ontario regardless.
maybe so but i'll take my Hamilton over Toronto victories anyways i can sir!

Ryan34222 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-05-2012, 05:14 PM
  #221
birddog*
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Toronto
Posts: 5,988
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by danishh View Post
hamilton's going to split the southern ontario fanbase.

markham will impact the fanbase currently in between toronto and ottawa as well.

so purely a selfish vote towards hamilton.



That said, Copps isnt sufficient right now. Markham arena will be. Unless hamilton gets their act together very quickly, they arnt even in the discussion.
Not sure how Markham impacts Ottawa. It's 30 minutes from the ACC in good traffic.

birddog* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-05-2012, 05:16 PM
  #222
Ryan34222
Registered User
 
Ryan34222's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Hamilton
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,147
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by birddog View Post
Not sure how Markham impacts Ottawa. It's 30 minutes from the ACC in good traffic.
when's that 2am?

Ryan34222 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-05-2012, 09:54 PM
  #223
htpwn
Registered User
 
htpwn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Toronto
Country: Poland
Posts: 12,788
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by No Fun Shogun View Post
Hold your horsies, Quebec City and Seattle are almost assuredly ahead of any place in Ontario regardless.
Only in an relocation, in my opinion. I don't see how the NHL turns down the massive expansion fee that a second Southern Ontario team would bring in.

Of course, that would be contingent on an NHL-ready building and owner. With the Markham arena starting to fall through and Copps needing an extensive renovation, those conditions may not be met.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan34222 View Post
when's that 2am?
The QEW is a pretty big mess too.

htpwn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-06-2012, 06:22 AM
  #224
Ryan34222
Registered User
 
Ryan34222's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Hamilton
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,147
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by htpwn View Post



The QEW is a pretty big mess too.
Such a Torontonian, always thinking they are the centre of the universe.

A team in Hamilton,unlike Markham, won't be dependant on the GTA to fill its rafters.. So traffic on the QEW (Toronto side) is irrelevant imo..
AS a side note, one can leave mississauga at 6pm and arrive at York exit (copps) no later than 645pm by QEW. Faster if they take 407, around same time if they take hwy 5 and probably an hour if they choose lakeshore.


Last edited by Ryan34222: 11-06-2012 at 09:36 AM.
Ryan34222 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-07-2012, 11:51 PM
  #225
MarkhamNHL
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 293
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan34222 View Post
Such a Torontonian, always thinking they are the centre of the universe.

A team in Hamilton,unlike Markham, won't be dependant on the GTA to fill its rafters.. So traffic on the QEW (Toronto side) is irrelevant imo..
so a team in a metro of 750,000 is more likely to fill the arena than the GTA at 6.2 Million ?

MarkhamNHL is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:53 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.