Trade Rumors and Free Agent TalkTrade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.
For the sake of fun, Filip Forsberg. Flame away, both sides.
Woah.
Not a chance from Washington. Orpik's contract expires in 2014 and is already 32. While I think he'd be a great partner for Green for the next couple seasons, it's hardly a guarantee beyond that. Not worth the price of Filip Forsberg, especially not if we're giving him to Pittsburgh. No reason to give Crosby/Malkin even more weapons.
Doubt the Pens trade Orpik, especially after dealing Michalek. The Pens have a lot of nice d PROSPECTS, but in terms of NHL dmen things are a bit thin after Letang. If they were to deal Orpik, I have to think it would be for a winger AND a dman, not just a winger alone.
With that being said, if Orpik was on the market I'd offer MacArthur and Gunnarsson from the Leafs. I think Orpik would look very good beside Phaneuf.
I'm still surprised they traded him for crap. He wasn't bad for the Penguins.
It's not that he was bad, per se, it's just that Suter would have been that much better to make it all worthwhile. However, Shero cleared the necessary cap space to make a serious push for Suter and it didn't happen. This is probably the biggest mistake he's made in his 6 years as the Penguins GM, and I'm pretty happy about that.
Now, though, I say we hang onto Orpik and let guys like Strait, Morrow, Bortuzzo and Dumoulin develop in the meantime. Hell, if this lockout lasts long enough we might end up with a logjam on defense as opposed to holes needing filled right now.
Not a chance from Washington. Orpik's contract expires in 2014 and is already 32. While I think he'd be a great partner for Green for the next couple seasons, it's hardly a guarantee beyond that. Not worth the price of Filip Forsberg, especially not if we're giving him to Pittsburgh. No reason to give Crosby/Malkin even more weapons.
Yet people propose (older) (with expiring contract) Iginla for Forsberg (and a 1st). Something is wrong either here or there.
I'm still surprised they traded him for crap. He wasn't bad for the Penguins.
Yes he was. Last year at least. I still like him a lot and wish him all the best, but Michalek was an awful fit for the Pens' system. The fact we gave him away for a 3rd round pick and Harrison Ruopp doesn't exactly thrill me, but Michalek really isn't going to be missed. Despres is a far better fit for the system and he's ready for real minutes...hell if this lockout drags on into next year you can probably add Morrow and Dumoulin to that list (to say nothing of Bortuzzo and Strait).
Regardless, Orpik is the only real long-term NHL veteran on the blue line now...we can't afford to dive head-first into the youth movement on defense. I'd rather see Orpik's role reduced slightly and have him paired with someone like Despres or Morrow and act as a mentor than trade him for winger help.
He's definitely on the downswing, but he still provides a unique package that doesn't exist anywhere else in the organization. Replacing Orpik with another young PMD doesn't exactly fix our defensive woes. We need his physicality and his leadership on the blue line.
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Last edited by Big McLargehuge: 10-31-2012 at 08:18 PM.
It's not that he was bad, per se, it's just that Suter would have been that much better to make it all worthwhile. However, Shero cleared the necessary cap space to make a serious push for Suter and it didn't happen. This is probably the biggest mistake he's made in his 6 years as the Penguins GM, and I'm pretty happy about that.
I don't buy any of that. First of all, he was bad. I would say he may have been just as bad as Martin last season. Secondly, with all the teams in this league that need defense, we could and should have easily gotten more for Michalek (even as a cap dump). My guess is that Michalek requested a trade back to Phoenix so Shero gave him back for nothing.
Martin - Letang
Despres - Niskanen
Strait - Engelland
^ That's our defense without Orpik. I could never see Shero starting 2 rookies on defense. He will hold on to Orpik and pray that he and Martin bounce back.
Just for curiosity's sake, what do you imagine the Pens' defense would look like if they made a trade like this?
I saw what they looked like when he was part of the line-up - arguably the worst playoff defense of all-time. And Orpik played a big part in that. He was not playing smart hockey...chasing hits, being out of position, etc.
IMHO, Orpik's reputation has outstripped his actual worth over the past couple years. He can still be a valuable player to teams looking for a mobile, physical veteran leader, but he's not the defenseman he was during the Pens' Finals runs. We could use a more consistent, refined defensive conscience on the blueline.
In the meantime, I think our young blueline prospects (Bort/Strait/Despres) could split his workload and fill in admirably. Given how many physical defensive defensemen start to break down in their mid-30s, I'd like to make a move ahead of the curve.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jets
Bryan Little? We could spare him in a pinch. He would be an upgrade over dupuis or cooke or kennedy/tangradi in the top 6 the pens have. The jets top six would still be wheeler ladd kane jokinen and 2 of burmistrov/wellwood/scheifele. We would give up a bit, but it would address a big need as well.
Little would be just the sort of piece I'd be looking for. Young, skilled, versatile RH scorer with a history of production.
Quote:
Originally Posted by capitalsrock
Do people actually think Strait is good?
Yes, because not only has he proven himself as a steady, reliable defensive defenseman at every previous level, he also played the same effective, responsible game in his NHL call-ups.
Yet people propose (older) (with expiring contract) Iginla for Forsberg (and a 1st). Something is wrong either here or there.
It's Flames fans suggesting that, not Caps fans. I don't agree with that either. But to compare a future first ballot HoF in Iginla to Brooks Orpik is also pretty disingenuous on your part.
yes some do, people like hes rob scuderi type of non flashy but steady D. Personally not a big fan of him but you could worse with a 6-8 dman.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Label
Michalek can be replaced by Despres.
Martin - Letang
Despres - Niskanen
We don't have a defenseman that is as physical as Orpik, but we also have Morrow coming up though the pipeline along with a lot of other defenders that will be vying for a top 4 slot (Dumoulin and Harrington and eventually Maata and Pouliot).
Just not gonna happen, thats very weak
Last edited by spiny norman: 11-01-2012 at 09:03 PM.
Reason: consecutive
Would love to get Orpik on the Blues. Id give Chris Stewart for sure, if you arel looking more for prospects Id consider Schwartz(not added to Stewart of course). Doubt Pens move Orpik though.
I can't see us resigning him. And IMO, Michalek outplayed Orpik last year. As sad as that is.
Assuming the Pens are behind keeping Martin around and possibly using him as a partner for Letang until our prospects are ready to take on top 4 minutes, I'd move Orpik in a second if it meant a longterm linemate for Sidney Crosby.
Strait is absolutely fine, his only problem is that he doesn't play a sexy game which makes it hard for him to stand out when there's so many young PMDs behind him on the depth chart. Strait should have a fairly good career as a bottom pairing guy in the NHL...if it's with the Penguins or someone else is the bigger question to me.
Would love to get Orpik on the Blues. Id give Chris Stewart for sure, if you arel looking more for prospects Id consider Schwartz(not added to Stewart of course). Doubt Pens move Orpik though.
Stewart would be the type of player I'm looking for. Given his real down year, I think it would be fair to ask for some sweetener, like a 2nd rounder next year.
We don't have a defenseman that is as physical as Orpik, but we also have Morrow coming up though the pipeline along with a lot of other defenders that will be vying for a top 4 slot (Dumoulin and Harrington and eventually Maata and Pouliot).
I doubt Pittsburgh would ever have such a soft top 4.
To Good Home: Big, physical, mobile, veteran leader on the blueline.
Desired Return: Good young scoring winger/wing prospect (if your offer isn't clearly better than the Pens' existing young top 6 options like Kennedy and Tangradi, don't bother. )
I am not a Pens fan but this sounds like a very bad idea to me. The Pens D isn't good with Orpik and trading him for a wing makes the D even worse.
A wing or prospect better than Tangradi or Kennedy isn't going to be the answer when every team is scoring 4 goals against your team.
I am not a Pens fan but this sounds like a very bad idea to me. The Pens D isn't good with Orpik and trading him for a wing makes the D even worse.
A wing or prospect better than Tangradi or Kennedy isn't going to be the answer when every team is scoring 4 goals against your team.
The question is whether Orpik really makes the Pens' defense better at this point. People ragged on the Pens defense last playoffs, but Orpik was as guilty as anyone this side of Martin. And he wasn't that much better in the regular season.
It may seem surprising to outsiders, but Letang and Niskanen were the Pens' two most consistent defensemen all last year. After that, Engelland and the rookies (Bortuzzo, Strait, and Despres) were the steadiest of the bunch.
He's 32 now, and it looks like hard minutes may have started taking their toll. For the right return, I'd move him assuming he'll trend downward and avoid a potential Foote/Regehr/Hannan/Komisarek type slide.
The question is whether Orpik really makes the Pens' defense better at this point. People ragged on the Pens defense last playoffs, but Orpik was as guilty as anyone this side of Martin. And he wasn't that much better in the regular season.
It may seem surprising to outsiders, but Letang and Niskanen were the Pens' two most consistent defensemen all last year. After that, Engelland and the rookies (Bortuzzo, Strait, and Despres) were the steadiest of the bunch.
He's 32 now, and it looks like hard minutes may have started taking their toll. For the right return, I'd move him assuming he'll trend downward and avoid a potential Foote/Regehr/Hannan/Komisarek type slide.
Orpik wasn't the problem with the Pens D, it was the constantly blown coverage by the Pens forwards and the fact that several D were just trying to score. If you were to put Orpik on a team that plays good defense, he will look like a good shutdown defender, you put him on a team that pays no attention to defense and you have the Pens/Flyers playoff series last year. He can't do it all by himself, he isn't an all star type of defender, just a solid, physical player and leader.
I really think that trading him for a scoring winger while the Pens already have the best offensive team in the league is not the wisest thing to do. The Penguins don't need to score more goals, they need to prevent more goals.
If anything, I think the Penguins should be trading scoring for defense. Even then, that might not be the entire answer, it is also the system, or lack thereof against the Flyers that led to their demise last year.
Crosby stunk against the Flyers, he was blowing all of his defensive coverage and letting Giroux score like they were playing ball hockey. Does that mean the Penguins should trade him? Really, I am having a hard time remembering ever having seen a big name player play as bad defensively as Crosby did in the playoffs last year. Why are people putting the blame on guys like Orpik?
Crosby will probably be a lot better whenever they get back to playing hockey since he has had more time to recover, I know he isn't as bad as he looked against the Flyers and so does everyone else, why can't Orpik or anyone else for that matter be given a break for their bad play?
Orpik wasn't the problem with the Pens D, it was the constantly blown coverage by the Pens forwards and the fact that several D were just trying to score. If you were to put Orpik on a team that plays good defense, he will look like a good shutdown defender, you put him on a team that pays no attention to defense and you have the Pens/Flyers playoff series last year. He can't do it all by himself, he isn't an all star type of defender, just a solid, physical player and leader.
I really think that trading him for a scoring winger while the Pens already have the best offensive team in the league is not the wisest thing to do. The Penguins don't need to score more goals, they need to prevent more goals.
If anything, I think the Penguins should be trading scoring for defense.
I watched Orpik play 60+ regular season games last season and every playoff game. The guy was losing men in coverage and getting drawn out of position (whether trying to hit someone or harangue an opponent behind the play) regularly. He wasn't alone in his poor play, but he sure as hell wasn't a beacon of defensive light emanating from the blueline. Physical does not equal responsible. Letang and Niskanen both played better defense than Orpik against Philly.
You are right in that defense is the biggest issue for the Pens. But retaining Orpik is not a pre-requisite to that, since he was as bad as any defenseman outside of Martin that series, and just finished a very inconsistent regular season.
But if you think he's such a stalwart, by all means, make an offer.
Crosby stunk against the Flyers, he was blowing all of his defensive coverage and letting Giroux score like they were playing ball hockey. Does that mean the Penguins should trade him? Really, I am having a hard time remembering ever having seen a big name player play as bad defensively as Crosby did in the playoffs last year. Why are people putting the blame on guys like Orpik?
Crosby will probably be a lot better whenever they get back to playing hockey since he has had more time to recover, I know he isn't as bad as he looked against the Flyers and so does everyone else, why can't Orpik or anyone else for that matter be given a break for their bad play?
Crosby wasn't at his best that series. Of course, unlike Orpik, he's 25, generally recognized as best player in the world (I could stop here), was actually effective in one facet of the game in the playoffs, and produced at a better pace than anyone in the league in the regular season despite just coming off a year and a half absence due to a major concussion.
I watched Orpik play 60+ regular season games last season and every playoff game. The guy was losing men in coverage and getting drawn out of position (whether trying to hit someone or harangue an opponent behind the play) regularly. He wasn't alone in his poor play, but he sure as hell wasn't a beacon of defensive light emanating from the blueline. Physical does not equal responsible. Letang and Niskanen both played better defense than Orpik against Philly.
You are right in that defense is the biggest issue for the Pens. But retaining Orpik is not a pre-requisite to that, since he was as bad as any defenseman outside of Martin that series, and just finished a very inconsistent regular season.
But if you think he's such a stalwart, by all means, make an offer.
That is why I just can't see why it is even a possibility to trade him for a scoring winger, the Penguins don't need scoring wingers. If you want to trade Orpik, why wouldn't you consider dealing him along with something else to get a better D if you just want to move him?
Just because he was playing on the top pairing at times for the Penguins doesn't mean that is the ideal situation for him. It really looked to me like he was trying to do too much. He needs to keep his gam as simple as possible and when your partner is always on the attack it makes it more difficult to maintain that simplicity.
I watch a lot of Penguins games as well, I live in Pittsburgh, my wife's boss gives us his tickets when he can't make it to a game which is about 8-10 times a year.
I am not a Penguins fan but I am a hockey fan and I really think that either you are expecting too much from Orpik or you are used to seeing him playing a simple game where his partner also plays D.
The Penguins won the Stanley Cup with more players like Orpik, not less. Now they have Orpik as the only guy who plays that kind of game, maybe Engelland does somewhat, but he doesn't play every game.
The thing I will give you is that Orpik sure as heck doesn't fit in the kind of style that the Penguins played last year in the playoffs, but there aren't many D who do fit in with a style like that and manage to look good. If they had Bobby Orr, Brad Park, Larry Robinson, Dennis Potvin, Ray Bourque, and Paul Coffey on D then their style would work great.
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