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The Official Arena Thread Part 6

View Poll Results: On what day will city council vote to finalize a new arena for Edmonton's downtown?
Between now and Christmas 2012 8 7.41%
Between New Year's Day and the end of February 2013 30 27.78%
Between March and July, 2013 16 14.81%
Before the October 2013 civic election 14 12.96%
Not until 2014 4 3.70%
Not until 2015 3 2.78%
Not until 2016 1 0.93%
Not until 2017 6 5.56%
Never 26 24.07%
Voters: 108. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
11-01-2012, 05:35 PM
  #76
Marc08
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If Katz wants to sell the Oilers to other local companies, who will gonna be that buyer?


These are my best choices right now.

<Name> <Revenue Growth (2006 - 2011)>

1) Canadian Western Bank: +16.2%
2) Epcor Utilities Inc.: -61.2%
3) ATB Financial: +27.6%
4) Finning (Canada): +11.0%

Others:
Capital Power (2009 - 2011): -83.9%

Source: http://v250.albertaventure.com


Last edited by Marc08: 11-01-2012 at 05:53 PM.
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Old
11-01-2012, 05:39 PM
  #77
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What you're failing to recognize is that everything is relative to it's time. The original six rinks probably didn't need to be upgraded or changed for as long as you say, because things in the world and the game didn't change much for about 50 years. There's been more change in players salaries in the last 5 years, for example, that than there was for about 50 years from 1940-1990. There was never the need for corporate boxes or corporate support like there is today for decades upon decades. Point is, you need to change and improve with the times, or get left behind to die. The old Montreal Forum or MLGs could stay viable for decades during the last century. There is no way they could make it that long now. Maybe Rexall place would have lasted and been viable 60 years if built in the 1930's. Not a chance now. It's the way things are.
With all due respect if we're talking "relative to time" few of those US rinks would ever be built in todays economic downturn. They were built in the middle of an overly optimistic bubble.


"The way things are" is that fewer and fewer people want to be spending high ticket prices to see spoiled brats chase a puck. Ever since the last lockout 10 dollar seats and dirtcheap ticket promotions have been commonplace in US rinks.

No US municipality in their right mind should want to service this kind of debtload financing of private arena's in the midst of towns and cities going bankrupt across the US.

I think a reality check is in order.

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Old
11-01-2012, 05:39 PM
  #78
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ATB should buy the team if Katz sells, then they can put Eberle in even more commercials.

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11-01-2012, 05:44 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Groucho View Post
ATB should buy the team if Katz sells, then they can put Eberle in even more commercials.
ATB's net revenue in the past 5 years is $270 million, so I don't think it is a right time for ATB to buy the Oilers now.


Last edited by Marc08: 11-01-2012 at 06:01 PM.
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11-01-2012, 05:48 PM
  #80
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Northlands does "excellent business" in the concert business because it has virtually no competition. Its main competitor is an arena hundreds of kms away that can't accomodate the elaborate sets of many of the major touring acts...unlike Rexall Place.
Sure but where exactly have they screwed that business up? They've taken advantage of the situation but Jamin is saying they've "run every event and Rexall place horribly" what evidence do we have of that?

Have they chased that concert business out of town? Do promoters or bands complain about Northlands after they've been here? Did the World Curling championships say the event was poorly run? Or has the Rodeo tried to move to a different venue because they didnt like whats happening here? Havent seen any evidence of that. Rather it looks like Northlands has successfully pulled off all those events with nothing but praise going their way.

I dont think you just give Northlands the arena management for nothing and let them make nothing but profit. In any deal I see them taking on a lot of what Katz was supposed to commit to, maintenance and operation costs of the facility in exchange for the revenues from all non-hockey events.

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Old
11-01-2012, 06:02 PM
  #81
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And for doing all this, they get a boatload of taxpayers cash.
Actually if you check out their annual report they end up generating more for governments than they get in grants so they are a net positive.

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11-01-2012, 06:35 PM
  #82
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We need a Packers style community owned team in the NHL. There are so many of these in Europe. How cool would a community driven hostile take-over be?

Get 250,000 to invest $1,000 a piece and buy the team for $250M. You can have different levels of investment too. Anyone who invests more that $50K gets a founders club share. There can be a specially built club for founders club members at the new arena.


Last edited by oilphan: 11-01-2012 at 06:42 PM.
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Old
11-01-2012, 06:39 PM
  #83
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We need a Packers style community owned team in the NHL. There are so many of these in Europe too. How cool would a community driven hostile take-over be?
That would be ideal but the NHL doesn't allow their teams to be community owned.

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11-01-2012, 07:34 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Moonlapse Vertigo View Post
That would be ideal but the NHL doesn't allow their teams to be community owned.
It is in the by-laws somewhere, or has it just been the approach historically. I wonder what the rationale would be behind that.

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11-02-2012, 12:46 AM
  #85
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quick question: for those of us who don't live in Edmonton what is the best site to get news. canoe.ca hasn't been useful lately

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11-02-2012, 12:58 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by oilphan View Post
We need a Packers style community owned team in the NHL. There are so many of these in Europe. How cool would a community driven hostile take-over be?

Get 250,000 to invest $1,000 a piece and buy the team for $250M. You can have different levels of investment too. Anyone who invests more that $50K gets a founders club share. There can be a specially built club for founders club members at the new arena.
What part of arena updates are you paying for as a 1000 dollar owner? How much of the losses the team may incur will you be willing to absorb?

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11-02-2012, 02:58 AM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc08 View Post
If Katz wants to sell the Oilers to other local companies, who will gonna be that buyer?


These are my best choices right now.

<Name> <Revenue Growth (2006 - 2011)>

1) Canadian Western Bank: +16.2%
2) Epcor Utilities Inc.: -61.2%
3) ATB Financial: +27.6%
4) Finning (Canada): +11.0%

Others:
Capital Power (2009 - 2011): -83.9%

Source: http://v250.albertaventure.com
Katz will not sell the team.the deal will get made with katz and the city .

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11-02-2012, 03:38 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Halibut View Post
Actually if you check out their annual report they end up generating more for governments than they get in grants so they are a net positive.
Yet, they don't deserve the same scorn when they come asking for cash?

You wonder why Northlands has dropped so far down in the minds of city residents....

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11-02-2012, 08:33 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by DoyleG View Post
Yet, they don't deserve the same scorn when they come asking for cash?

You wonder why Northlands has dropped so far down in the minds of city residents....
Wonder how much Katz pays in taxes? Probably more then Northlands brings in for the government. That doesn't even count his business and everything else he runs.

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11-02-2012, 08:39 AM
  #90
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Yet, they don't deserve the same scorn when they come asking for cash?

You wonder why Northlands has dropped so far down in the minds of city residents....
Northlands is a not-for-profit with close oversight and direction from the city. It's not a private for-profit corporation like Rexall/the Oilers. Apples and oranges.

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Old
11-02-2012, 08:43 AM
  #91
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Northlands is a not-for-profit with close oversight and direction from the city. It's not a private for-profit corporation like Rexall/the Oilers. Apples and oranges.
Most auditors will tell you that they see more graft in not-for-profits than they ever see in a private corporation.

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11-02-2012, 08:50 AM
  #92
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Katz will not sell the team.the deal will get made with katz and the city .
That's speculation. You don't know that.

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Old
11-02-2012, 08:50 AM
  #93
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So let me get this straight, Edmonton tax payers are willing to pay a hell of a lot more for a new Arena if its run by a not for profit company compared to if its run by Katz?

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11-02-2012, 09:03 AM
  #94
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Originally Posted by worraps View Post
Most auditors will tell you that they see more graft in not-for-profits than they ever see in a private corporation.
Cool. Do you have any evidence of graft at Northlands to back up your potentially libellous allegations?

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11-02-2012, 09:04 AM
  #95
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So let me get this straight, Edmonton tax payers are willing to pay a hell of a lot more for a new Arena if its run by a not for profit company compared to if its run by Katz?
What evidence is there that it would cost more? Again: Katz doesn't want to front anything here.

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Old
11-02-2012, 09:07 AM
  #96
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Most auditors will tell you that they see more graft in not-for-profits than they ever see in a private corporation.
Most lawyers will tell you that they see way more influence peddling in private enterprise than they do in not for profit.

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11-02-2012, 09:07 AM
  #97
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What evidence is there that it would cost more? Again: Katz doesn't want to front anything here.
Katz is still paying towards the Arena, something Northlands wouldn't be.

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Old
11-02-2012, 09:08 AM
  #98
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So let me get this straight, Edmonton tax payers are willing to pay a hell of a lot more for a new Arena if its run by a not for profit company compared to if its run by Katz?
It would actually cost a lot less.

About a hundred million.

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11-02-2012, 09:12 AM
  #99
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Cool. Do you have any evidence of graft at Northlands to back up your potentially libellous allegations?
Speaking of libel: I never said there was graft at Northlands.

I find it immensely entertaining that you managed to libel me in the act of accusing me of libel.

You have a special talent for irony my friend.

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11-02-2012, 09:12 AM
  #100
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Katz is still paying towards the Arena, something Northlands wouldn't be.
Nope. If Katz gets his way, he won't pay a nickle.

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