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Lockout discussion thread 2.0

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Old
11-02-2012, 07:22 AM
  #151
LyricalLyricist
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Originally Posted by shutehinside View Post
Comments like this really piss me off. I really don't think these players have ANY idea what the real world is like and just how lucky they are to be in the situation they're in.

If any player would rather retire than endure the hardships of being a professional athlete than by all means they should. They should also remember the reason the can retire as multi millionaires in the early 30s is because of the terrible job they previously had.

Gimme a break. Maybe he needs a bit of cheese with that whine.
I agree with you. I have less respect for players complaining than those who actually retire. I mean, if it's not your thing and you can better, by all means, go ahead. If its highly profitable for you and you enjoy doing it then why complain? It applies to other people as well. When people go around in a company saying "I hate this place" and "X company pays more and has better benefits!"...well then **** and go.

The NHL has been pretty quiet in regards to this but the players have complained about management the entire time. Look, we don't care. We understand you want a better deal and that's good for you, nothing wrong with that but stop trying to play the victim card because although you are getting pushed around a bit, we honestly would kill to be in your spot. It's kind of the equivalent of me winning 50 million in a lottery and due to a new policy I can only claim 90% of it. Sure, i'll be upset I lost 5 million but as for as situation goes, this exemplifies the "first world problems" meme.

Deal with it in court or negotiations and that's that. Right now whoever talks the most is losing the most PR. Honestly fed up of hearing it. We have brains, we get it. Both sides are being ridiculous but at least I don't have to hear Molson, Jacobs or whoever say "It's the principle" "we want a fair deal" and any other cliche statement.

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11-02-2012, 08:37 AM
  #152
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
I agree with you. I have less respect for players complaining than those who actually retire. I mean, if it's not your thing and you can better, by all means, go ahead. If its highly profitable for you and you enjoy doing it then why complain? It applies to other people as well. When people go around in a company saying "I hate this place" and "X company pays more and has better benefits!"...well then **** and go.

The NHL has been pretty quiet in regards to this but the players have complained about management the entire time. Look, we don't care. We understand you want a better deal and that's good for you, nothing wrong with that but stop trying to play the victim card because although you are getting pushed around a bit, we honestly would kill to be in your spot. It's kind of the equivalent of me winning 50 million in a lottery and due to a new policy I can only claim 90% of it. Sure, i'll be upset I lost 5 million but as for as situation goes, this exemplifies the "first world problems" meme.

Deal with it in court or negotiations and that's that. Right now whoever talks the most is losing the most PR. Honestly fed up of hearing it. We have brains, we get it. Both sides are being ridiculous but at least I don't have to hear Molson, Jacobs or whoever say "It's the principle" "we want a fair deal" and any other cliche statement.
That's because Gary Bettman has a gag order on the owners, and anybody connected with management. They are not allowed to speak about the lockout without Gary's permission, and if they do they face significant fines. Like, millions of dollars type fines. Hell, Jimmy Delvanno agreed with the owners and he was fined $250,000.

Trust me, if there was no gag order we'd be hearing all kinds of smack talk from the owner side too. Not necessarily from guys like Molson, but the underlings, the VPs, the minority owners... you'd hear a lot. And vice versa; if the NHLPA put a gag order on the players, said "you're automatically out of the union if you tweet or say anything that isn't approved by Donald Fehr" then I guarantee you we wouldn't be hearing anything from that side either.

As for the victim card, and your lottery analogy, isn't that what the owners are doing? We're talking about billionaires here, who want to recuperate the nickels and dimes (comparatively speaking) that they are losing on their hockey teams, money that they will almost certainly get back once they sell their franchises. Do the math, compare an owner's personal wealth with the amount he is losing on his team, and then compare that on a percentage basis with a "Regular Joe." It's nothing to them. Less than what you and I would pay to actually go to a game or two. Doesn't mean that they don't have the right to try and fix it, but like the players they certainly don't need it, and the hammer they are using to crush this flea is hitting a lot of other people in the process. Like the bar owners, parking lot attendants and all those other people that are losing real money because of this.


Last edited by JohnnyReb: 11-02-2012 at 08:47 AM.
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Old
11-02-2012, 08:43 AM
  #153
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That's because Gary Bettman has a gag order on the owners, and anybody connected with management. They are not allowed to speak about the lockout without Gary's permission, and if they do they face significant fines (even for an owner). Like, millions of dollars type fines. Hell, Jimmy Delvanno agreed with the owners and he was fined $250,000.

Trust me, if there was no gag order we'd be hearing all kinds of smack talk from the owner side too. Not necessarily from guys like Molson, but the underlings, the VPs, the minority owners... you'd hear a lot. And vice versa; if the NHLPA put a gag order on the players, said "you're automatically out of the union if you tweet or say anything that isn't approved by Donald Fehr" then I guarantee you we wouldn't be hearing anything from that side either.
I'm very much aware of that and I find it better.

The fact NHLPA takes shots and NHL has been professional about it is what I'm refering to.

The fact Jimmy got fined when defending owners completely proves my point. They are much less tolerant on these issues. I see no reason for players or owners to be crying to the media for PR. This isn't a PR battle, make a deal, that's it.

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11-02-2012, 09:06 AM
  #154
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I have stopped following all of them. They are a bunch of ungrateful babies. I seriously hope all these guys threatening to retire or stay in Russia do it and then realize what a horrible mistake they have made.
Ungrateful?

This is their job. Their career. Their salary is not a gift, it is compensation for services they provide. The owners are not doing them a favour by giving them a lot of money, that's just the way the market is.

If you really think they should cave to the owners because of some gratitude towards them for making them rich, then you're really out of your element.

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I'm trying to care about this - but I just don't. At this point, I'm enjoying soccer so much I couldn't care less if NHL comes back unless they sign like a 10-year-deal.
*********. You'll be back no matter what happens.

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Old
11-02-2012, 10:12 AM
  #155
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It's not that Cole is saying he's a victim, it's that he just wants to do the job he's supposed to be getting paid for.
Bang on...relax guys...he knows both sides need to get back to the table...

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11-02-2012, 11:17 AM
  #156
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In french.. but Melnyk snaps at the lockout situation:

http://www.lapresse.ca/le-droit/spor...u-lock-out.php

Owners putting pressure on Buttman?

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Old
11-02-2012, 11:17 AM
  #157
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Nice to hear Cole say this...this is pretty much all he has a say in.

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11-02-2012, 11:31 AM
  #158
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Before joining the Habs I've always thought of Cole as somewhat of a dirty hitter. Now that Hockey is in lockout, this is an other form of a 'dirty hit' by him in my view, and the victims are the owners. I don't think he's serious at all this is just a game.

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11-02-2012, 11:42 AM
  #159
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So how long until the NHL union breaks? If I was an owner that's what my objective would be that's for sure.

Owners are basically muscling the players because they've simply got more chips. If it's so easy to be an owner, then the players should be one. You don't just typically get handed a piece of paper upon birth that says - you will be a successful businessman. And even the ones that were born with silver spoons were given that ability by their ancestors for generations. This is life. It's not just in the NHL. Fight if you want...i don't really care who wears the CH...all players are replaced eventually anyway.

Players play, owners own. If you want to stand up for what you believe in, be my guest, but as a fan I can't stand alongside you...I care about the habs in the end. Not sure why the passion runs so deep in me...but the owners deserve that credit in the end.

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11-02-2012, 11:46 AM
  #160
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
I'm very much aware of that and I find it better.

The fact NHLPA takes shots and NHL has been professional about it is what I'm refering to.

The fact Jimmy got fined when defending owners completely proves my point. They are much less tolerant on these issues. I see no reason for players or owners to be crying to the media for PR. This isn't a PR battle, make a deal, that's it.
The fact that NHL owners will get fined million of dollars if they speak out about ANYTHING regarding the lock out, and players can speak freely, in a social media driven world, i think is the main reason why this is happening, much more then "nhl owners are classy dudes, kudos".

The NHL is using the media as much as the players are. And the NHL is definitely winning the PR battle, given how many people seem to see the owners as "victims".
lol.

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11-02-2012, 11:55 AM
  #161
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Originally Posted by uiCk View Post
The fact that NHL owners will get fined million of dollars if they speak out about ANYTHING regarding the lock out, and players can speak freely, in a social media driven world, i think is the main reason why this is happening, much more then "nhl owners are classy dudes, kudos".

The NHL is using the media as much as the players are. And the NHL is definitely winning the PR battle, given how many people seem to see the owners as "victims".
lol.
I never said owners were classy dudes. I said the NHL went about it in a professional way.

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11-02-2012, 12:22 PM
  #162
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I never said owners were classy dudes. I said the NHL went about it in a professional way.
yea, i misunderstood what you said.
i would wish this wasn't a PR battle. both sides seem to want it to be.

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11-02-2012, 12:35 PM
  #163
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Do you really think there is a PR battle. I truly dont think either side cares what we think. All Canadians will come back to the sport and most US fans.

The lockout is a joke right now and the players have lost.

They have admitted 50/50 is the right thing to do, their proposals all go towards that. They greedily are trying to hold on to extra money for the next few years.
Where is the principle to that ? They say uphold the contracts, but all contracts have a " subject to new CBA revision" clause. So, if 50/50 requires a rollback, that actually is consistent with their current contracts.

Where are the players morally on this spot ? Nowhere.

The owners know they have won as the NHLPA has already conceded to 50/50. They will holdout until the players agree to do the right thing immediately or very, very close to immediately.

It really is OVER, its just when the players will admit defeat and get on with it if they can suffer earning 87.5 % of what they earned before. Its all about the players egos and admitting defeat.

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11-02-2012, 01:43 PM
  #164
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
It was never Cole's dream to be a locked-out NHL player.

His dream was to be a great NHLer. He got to live his dream last year, and we never heard any complaints.

A lockout every five years is certainly a ripoff in my opinion. It's a year of idleness to the players, and a 20% slash in their lifetime earnings.
First off, you have no idea what their lifetime earnings are. All you know is their salary and cap hit. How much money they make from endorsements and investments is unknown to any of us.
People that are signed for 5 years are the ones losing 20% of the value of their contract. A guy like Gomez isn't losing close to 20% of it.


As for Cole, the guy (and every other player for that matter) should shut up really.
If he wants to retire, then he should just do it. No need to whine in the media about the NHL, ''threatening'' them, like a bunch of others did from the KHL.

This lock out is ridiculous, but you're not hearing the NHL call out players saying ''well if they want to stay in Europe or Asia, or retire, then good riddance, it'll be their decision not to be part of the best hockey league in the world.'', or anything like that.
Players are making themselves look like babies.
Everybody thought the lockout could be very serious once we heard Fehr was leading the PA, is that a coincidence?

50-50 share is normal.
Roll backs are perhaps harsh because it's always crappy to have a salary reduction, but man, can Kovalchuk live with making 7M instead of 11M? Yea, I think so. Let's not forget, the only reason Kovalchuk is making that 11M to begin with is because capologist found a loophole within the cap, giving birth to front loaded contracts.
Because there's no way Kovalchuk signs that contract if his cap hit is 11M instead of 6.6M.
So, let's not cry a river here. They found a loophole, league sees it, and they want to rectify it because it got to a crazy point.

Not to mention, they're in a league where contracts are guaranteed. So, unless of a strike, they absolutely get the money they were guaranteed.

I'm not defending Bettman, the man's a twit. I've been wanting him replace for as long as I can remember. But the PA here is just as dumb, they get no sympathy for me.

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Old
11-02-2012, 01:58 PM
  #165
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Honestly, at this point I want both sides to suffer. The players have spent so much time feeling sorry for themselves that not a word was said about all the people who actually work behind the scenes and at arenas who actually are suffering in this lockout.

Both Bettman and Fehr are egomaniacs who will do anything to be right, some owners want to be bailed out for their own incompetence (or are just incredibly cheap and greedy like Jacobs), and the players are out of touch meatheads who don't realize how lucky they have it. A plague on both your houses!

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11-02-2012, 01:58 PM
  #166
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As for Cole, the guy (and every other player for that matter) should shut up really.
If he wants to retire, then he should just do it. No need to whine in the media about the NHL, ''threatening'' them, like a bunch of others did from the KHL.

This lock out is ridiculous, but you're not hearing the NHL call out players saying ''well if they want to stay in Europe or Asia, or retire, then good riddance, it'll be their decision not to be part of the best hockey league in the world.'', or anything like that.
Players are making themselves look like babies.
As many have said, millionaires should not fight with billionaires. They are hockey players, not businessmen. So they should shut up and let businessmen do their thing. They don't seem to realize that their "threats" do nothing but hurt their cause. Didn't they realize yet that the majority of the population are against them right now?

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11-02-2012, 02:24 PM
  #167
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are you one of the best in the world in your field ?I am pretty good
if we were to make a poster of you at work, how many you think we'd sell ? I am a good looking guy
how many jerseys with your face on it would sell ? You mean construction Jersey's? Well, we did make a calander
how many "roofers forum" exist on the net ? More than you know. For real. There are waaaaay more roofers in the world than there is hockey players. Every house has one.
how many journalists cover the roofing industry ? Depends on if there is a hurricane or not.



and you wonder where are your millions ? really ?
I was being metaphorical. Do you work for the owners per chance?

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11-02-2012, 02:41 PM
  #168
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So how long until the NHL union breaks? If I was an owner that's what my objective would be that's for sure.

Owners are basically muscling the players because they've simply got more chips. If it's so easy to be an owner, then the players should be one. You don't just typically get handed a piece of paper upon birth that says - you will be a successful businessman. And even the ones that were born with silver spoons were given that ability by their ancestors for generations. This is life. It's not just in the NHL. Fight if you want...i don't really care who wears the CH...all players are replaced eventually anyway.

Players play, owners own. If you want to stand up for what you believe in, be my guest, but as a fan I can't stand alongside you...I care about the habs in the end. Not sure why the passion runs so deep in me...but the owners deserve that credit in the end.
100% agree. Around 85% of our team is not the same as it was 4 years ago. I love the Habs. The players come and go so often, now, that the jersey means far more to me than the name on the back of it.

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11-02-2012, 02:45 PM
  #169
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I predict 3 lock-out threads.. not because it will be over soon but because nobody gives a **** anymore.

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11-02-2012, 02:53 PM
  #170
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like the owners care about the businesses around the rinks losing money and part time employees losing their job cause of the lock out... hell, they dont even care about their own hot-dog sellers...
Actually it depends upon the owner. For example, Illitch is making sure none of his employees are being laid off, so far. There have been quite a few owners who have been trying to keep people from being placed on unemployment lines. It was demonstrated in an earlier thread. That doesn't mean all of the owners are doing it, but at least some are. I also know that McGuire was talking about how well Lamoriello takes good care of his employees a couple of weeks ago.

Some of the owners are ensuring the common folks are being supported. What are the players doing? How many of them are getting paid to play in other leagues and using that money to help other players survive or send any of that money to hot dog sellers who truly need that money to survive? Ovechkin is still getting paid millions (over 5, I believe) to go pay in the KHL. I don't hear anything about him helping anyone in financial need.

The owners are trying to ensure that they get half of the money made by the league because it will ensure that not only will owners have a chance to make a profit, but that there will still be 30 teams in the league and keep jobs at all levels alive. The players only want to line their pockets.

If Cole wants to retire, I will miss him, but will move on as soon as we start playing. He had a great season for us, but I will live my life just as well when he retires as i do now. It is a hollow threat that will harm him far more than it will anyone else. Just like Ovechkin and others threatening to stay in the KHL. If they want to stay there, good riddance and goodbye. I would be far more significantly upset if the Habs ever lost so much money that they moved to another city than I would be if every player on the Habs quit today.

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11-02-2012, 02:58 PM
  #171
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I think his point is that these players are living up their dreams, and getting paid millions of dollars at the same time, and yet they complain. They do look like spoiled brats.
I'm not saying they should just shut up and agree to everything and anything the owners dictate, but this idea that they're trying to portray as if they're getting ripped off by the league is pretty foolish.
100% agree.

It is pretty amazing how the players can claim getting 43% of the HRR is insulting when it is offered to them, but feel it is something the owners should cope with just fine. It is outright repugnant that the players refuse to accept a 50/50 split of all of the owners' HRR while not even being asked to include any of their own HRR into the total HRR amount. The players talk about the NHL walking away from their counter offers, but want everyone to forget that they never replied to the owner' original offer when the negotiations began. Fehr is not going to "save" the players, and is going to contribute to significantly damaging the NHL. Too bad the players aren't smart enough to realize it.

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11-02-2012, 03:02 PM
  #172
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100% agree.

It is pretty amazing how the players can claim getting 43% of the HRR is insulting when it is offered to them, but feel it is something the owners should cope with just fine. It is outright repugnant that the players refuse to accept a 50/50 split of all of the owners' HRR while not even being asked to include any of their own HRR into the total HRR amount. The players talk about the NHL walking away from their counter offers, but want everyone to forget that they never replied to the owner' original offer when the negotiations began. Fehr is not going to "save" the players, and is going to contribute to significantly damaging the NHL. Too bad the players aren't smart enough to realize it.
Fehr just has to accept that the NHL won't budge this time.

The players will break rank by Christmas...

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11-02-2012, 03:15 PM
  #173
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I was being metaphorical. Do you work for the owners per chance?
LOL. Loved this reply in every way.

I am amazed at the fans who feel it is necessary to attack other fans' manner of earning a living to try and defend a bunch of guys getting millions to play a game. Yes, it is a game we all love to play and/or watch;yes, it is a game that brings in billions of dollars;yes, it is a game that requires hard work to succeed at. none of that is in dispute. That does not mean the players are any different than roofers, teachers, lawyers, doctors, etc... in regards to whether or not someone works hard at their job. This whole idea that the poor players are so much higher than we little "Joe Blows" because they are the best in the world at playing a game is asinine. I am quite certain far more roofers get seriously hurt each year than NHL players. I know that it is far more dangerous to be a firefighter than a hockey player. I know that there are teachers who work as hard as any NHL player at their jobs without any of the glory or financial compensation that NHL players get.

As such, I see absolutely no reason to side with a bunch of guys whining because the guys who pay them want to get 50% of the revenue the NHL earns..especially when the owners are not even trying to get their hands on the players' own HRR.

If Cole wants to retire, I will wave good bye and say "thanks for a great season" while moving on to the next great Habs player to come along. Sorry, Cole, have a good life and don't let the door hit you in the butt while Galchenyuk (or player "Z") comes on in after you.

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11-02-2012, 03:18 PM
  #174
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Fehr just has to accept that the NHL won't budge this time.

The players will break rank by Christmas...
I wish it would happen, but I think they will last a full year. If the players DO last until the summer, I will hope and pray for replacement players. Once we get replacement players, we will see a lot of guys walk away from the union and come back to the best paying league in the world.

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11-02-2012, 03:19 PM
  #175
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Since that's what this has evolved into, I've merged the Cole retirement thread with the Lockout Discussion thread.

Forward any and all complaints to overlords.

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