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Ovi can't even light up the KHL, can we finally admit that he's past his prime?

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Old
11-01-2012, 08:03 PM
  #301
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Old
11-01-2012, 08:08 PM
  #302
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vikke View Post
How stupid are NHL coaches and D-men if that's the case? It took 'em seven years to "figure him out"? No. That's not the case.
Not having Green's breakout passes to a flying Ovechkin who could challenge the D. Not having Bäckström feeding him one-timers on the PP. Not having any dangerous secondary scoring. Not having a free-flying offensive system. THAT is what caused Ovechkin to score a mere 38 goals.
That excuse is just not valid either. Ovechkin produced what, 105 or 106 points and over 50 goals as a effin' rookie back in 05-06 with next to no help.

I don't think teammates is the issue, nor do I think it's solely due to the fact defensemen and coaches have "figured him out". To me, he appears to be slightly out of shape, might not be taking his career seriously enough to succeed on a long period of time and obviously, I also believe his game has become a little too straight forward for him to keep racking up 100+ points seasons.

One thing is for sure, Ovechkin is not the player he use to be. Being PPG in the KHL is not enough to be called part of the "big 3" in the NHL anymore. Malkin has 27 points in 17 games while playing a more complete game, compared to Ovechkin's 14 points in 14 games.

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11-01-2012, 08:10 PM
  #303
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Originally Posted by Vikke View Post
Explain how?
He averaged slightly below 20 minutes per game in TOI. 3 minutes and 38 seconds on the PP.
In 08-09 when he scored 56 he averaged 23 minutes. 5.24 on the PP.
It's pretty damn simple if you actually care to break stuff down instead of just saying "OMG OVECHKIN SUCKS".
If he was actually reliable defensively, maybe... just maybe, the coach would put him out for 2-3 more minutes per game?

There's a reason for the minutes that he got.

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11-01-2012, 08:27 PM
  #304
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Originally Posted by Serbian Power View Post
If he was actually reliable defensively, maybe... just maybe, the coach would put him out for 2-3 more minutes per game?

There's a reason for the minutes that he got.
Yeah, the coach is an idiot/Canadian bigot who thinks he's more likely to win with talentless grinders who dump the puck than one of the greatest left wingers to ever play the game.

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11-01-2012, 08:44 PM
  #305
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Originally Posted by Serbian Power View Post
If he was actually reliable defensively, maybe... just maybe, the coach would put him out for 2-3 more minutes per game?

There's a reason for the minutes that he got.
dale hunter was the worst coach i have ever personally witnessed do not take his decisions seriously

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11-01-2012, 11:06 PM
  #306
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vikke View Post
How stupid are NHL coaches and D-men if that's the case? It took 'em seven years to "figure him out"? No. That's not the case.
Not having Green's breakout passes to a flying Ovechkin who could challenge the D. Not having Bäckström feeding him one-timers on the PP. Not having any dangerous secondary scoring. Not having a free-flying offensive system. THAT is what caused Ovechkin to score a mere 38 goals.
I used to think mainly about the predictability thing, which might ring a little true, but this makes so much sense. I'm from MD so a lot of my hockey friends are Caps fans and I was surrounded by them a lot. Seemed like last year they were so weak offensively after being such a high-scoring team. I know Knuble is up there in age but he had a significant drop-off, as did many of the other secondary and role players. Obviously Backstrom being gone hurts and Semin's lack up scoring is a different debate in itself.

I don't like Green too much but he's definitely an offensive threat and his lack of breakout passes for a high-scoring team hurts. See the Flyers against the Devils in the past playoffs. I really don't like the Caps but I love Ovechkin and Backstrom and grew up playing at the rink the Capitals practiced at so I got to watch them out there a lot. I wanna see Ovechkin reach 50+ goals and 90+ points on average again. I think he can do it but he needs that fire and to not be frustrated, which I think was part of that new system they had. I have faith he'll be "back."

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11-01-2012, 11:13 PM
  #307
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Originally Posted by redbull View Post
Players get better and players get worse.

Ovechkin got worse.
Yashin got worse.
Lecavalier got worse.
There are many more examples if we put our locked-out brains to work.
I just want to point out that there's a big chance Lecavalier's decline was in large part from the bad concussion he took after he scored 52 freakin' goals. Not everyone can be Crosby when coming back from a concussion. I don't think Ovechkin will be another Yashin though. I think he cares a lot more.

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11-02-2012, 12:17 PM
  #308
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He's not passed his prime he's just a lazy ****. Not motivated.

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11-02-2012, 12:19 PM
  #309
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Originally Posted by Serbian Power View Post
If he was actually reliable defensively, maybe... just maybe, the coach would put him out for 2-3 more minutes per game?

There's a reason for the minutes that he got.
Oh please. Jeff Schultz got a lot of ice time and sucked nuts. And turned the puck over several times a game.

But... Dale Hunter says Orlov scratched whole playoffs because he turned the puck over in last game of regular season.


Dale Hunter hates Russians.

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11-02-2012, 12:28 PM
  #310
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so funny seeing Ovechkin's fanboys coming out with all kinds of ridiculous excuses.

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11-02-2012, 12:35 PM
  #311
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Ovi stank

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Old
11-02-2012, 12:42 PM
  #312
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Originally Posted by Liberation View Post
Oh please. Jeff Schultz got a lot of ice time and sucked nuts. And turned the puck over several times a game.

But... Dale Hunter says Orlov scratched whole playoffs because he turned the puck over in last game of regular season.


Dale Hunter hates Russians.
Odd that a guy who hates Russians would continually select (albeit Mark is the GM) them in the CHL import draft. Nikita Zadorov, Vladimir Namestnikov, Sergei Kostitsyn (Belarus, I know) just off the top of my head.

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11-02-2012, 12:47 PM
  #313
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Anyone who watches video of Ovechkin now, comparing him to games played in 07/08 can clearly see a difference.

Ovechkin just doesn't have that extra step anymore. He's lost his explosiveness, his aggressiveness. He's unbelievably passive.

The most effort you'll see from Ovechkin these days are during his celebrations.

I don't think he'll be considered an elite player much longer, if he even still is. He used to be so exciting.

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11-02-2012, 12:50 PM
  #314
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I think the explanation for Ovy's worsen production is simple, he just hasnt got that fire in his eyes that made him score all those goals when he was younger. The hunger for goals made him do the stuff he did back then. He still wants to score but its not the same. So in a way he has become predictable when he's trying mainly the same moves because he doesnt come up with anything spontanious.

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Old
11-02-2012, 01:20 PM
  #315
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashasx View Post
Anyone who watches video of Ovechkin now, comparing him to games played in 07/08 can clearly see a difference.

Ovechkin just doesn't have that extra step anymore. He's lost his explosiveness, his aggressiveness. He's unbelievably passive.

The most effort you'll see from Ovechkin these days are during his celebrations.

I don't think he'll be considered an elite player much longer, if he even still is. He used to be so exciting.
Nope. He's still explosive. It's just the system's changed. Ovechkin's at his best when he floats and has open ice to challenge a defender one on one. This is ultra slow dump the puck system the Caps played last year just gives teams the ability to shadow Ovechkin closely. You saw in 2010-11 that with this system Ovechkin was able to go over PPG by passing more. He did that again this year but his line mates were garbage and couldn't put score if the net was 10 feet long.

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11-02-2012, 01:28 PM
  #316
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Originally Posted by Reini29 View Post
I think the explanation for Ovy's worsen production is simple, he just hasnt got that fire in his eyes that made him score all those goals when he was younger. The hunger for goals made him do the stuff he did back then. He still wants to score but its not the same. So in a way he has become predictable when he's trying mainly the same moves because he doesnt come up with anything spontanious.
exactly. not to mention his team is totally inept at getting him the puck when he's open, it's hard to watch. hopefully ribero will have a clue.

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11-02-2012, 02:46 PM
  #317
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Originally Posted by WarriorofTime View Post
Nope. He's still explosive. It's just the system's changed. Ovechkin's at his best when he floats and has open ice to challenge a defender one on one. This is ultra slow dump the puck system the Caps played last year just gives teams the ability to shadow Ovechkin closely. You saw in 2010-11 that with this system Ovechkin was able to go over PPG by passing more. He did that again this year but his line mates were garbage and couldn't put score if the net was 10 feet long.
But to be fair, he did score 52 goals and 106 points under Glen Hanlon in 05-06.

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Old
11-02-2012, 03:05 PM
  #318
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To be honest, I think OV's drop in production came as soon as the team changed its philosophy. Going from an all out offensive juggernaut to a defensive stalwart was a dumb idea, you should work with your strengths.

Not sure what system Oates will play, but if its anything like the old Boudreau system, then I'm sure we will see the old OV back. Highly doubt he will be up to 65 goal form (he set his bar incredibly high there), but 50g, 100pt seasons arent out of question yet.

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11-02-2012, 03:21 PM
  #319
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashasx View Post
Anyone who watches video of Ovechkin now, comparing him to games played in 07/08 can clearly see a difference.

Ovechkin just doesn't have that extra step anymore. He's lost his explosiveness, his aggressiveness. He's unbelievably passive.

The most effort you'll see from Ovechkin these days are during his celebrations.

I don't think he'll be considered an elite player much longer, if he even still is. He used to be so exciting.
Tend to skim over any explanations involving ice time, teammates or coaching tactics because they miss the obvious truth, which is

OV's explosiveness is gone (or at least, not present nearly as often). When he does something he used to do, he doesn't do it as quickly and it becomes defensible. It's a physical difference, not a psychological one or a usage thing. His afterburners don't burn at quite as high a temperature. His 0-60 takes a few more strides.

I will say this, though. Even without explosiveness, Ovechkin is still a fast guy who's strong as an ox and has a wrist shot like a slapshot but more accurate than most wristshots. If he can't figure out a way to use his substantial remaining tools to be a big-time contributor going forward (and I mean more production than last year, not equal), then shame on him.

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11-02-2012, 07:21 PM
  #320
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I'm not surprised the what have you done for me lately mentality is still prevalent around here. But using his KHL numbers as evidence? Really? Also, a lot of people don't understand what prime means. At all...

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11-02-2012, 07:39 PM
  #321
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Originally Posted by Dominate Kesler View Post
I'm not surprised the what have you done for me lately mentality is still prevalent around here. But using his KHL numbers as evidence? Really? Also, a lot of people don't understand what prime means. At all...
I for one think we should take his current KHL stats with a grain of salt but that league has always been notorious for being a lower scoring league. All we have to do is go back to the 2004-05 lockout season and look at the stats of star players from the RSL (that's what it was before) to see that.

The KHL is a slower, less aggressive game with much more emphasis on puck control. Ovechkin's forte has never been puck control. He really excels when he's playing at full speed and taking the body.

Malkin's game is a bit more suited for the KHL than Ovechkin's game is. Ovechkin is at least at a PPG clip this time around in the KHL. In 2004-05 Ovechkin had 27 pts in 37 games only to break out the following season in what was his rookie season in 2005-06 in the NHL at age 20 nonetheless.

I think Ovechkin is still capable of scoring 30-40 goals and should return to being a PPG player but I think time is running out on him in regards to return to 100 + Pts form.

He's 27 and he's not getting any younger and he's already played professional hockey (including time in the RSL) for 9 years.

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Old
11-05-2012, 08:51 AM
  #322
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Originally Posted by livewell68 View Post
I for one think we should take his current KHL stats with a grain of salt but that league has always been notorious for being a lower scoring league. All we have to do is go back to the 2004-05 lockout season and look at the stats of star players from the RSL (that's what it was before) to see that.

The KHL is a slower, less aggressive game with much more emphasis on puck control. Ovechkin's forte has never been puck control. He really excels when he's playing at full speed and taking the body.

Malkin's game is a bit more suited for the KHL than Ovechkin's game is. Ovechkin is at least at a PPG clip this time around in the KHL. In 2004-05 Ovechkin had 27 pts in 37 games only to break out the following season in what was his rookie season in 2005-06 in the NHL at age 20 nonetheless.

I think Ovechkin is still capable of scoring 30-40 goals and should return to being a PPG player but I think time is running out on him in regards to return to 100 + Pts form.

He's 27 and he's not getting any younger and he's already played professional hockey (including time in the RSL) for 9 years.
While I agree with the post, I have to say that Malkin simply has a better and more complete game (More suited for hockey, period).

The difference between great players and all time greats is that the latter are able to adjust their game, once their physical prime began to decline. Ovi hasn't shown that he can. So that's why he's past his prime and simply not in the conversation for best player anymore.

People mention how the KHL is a notoriously low scoring league, yet guys like Malkin, Kovalchuk and Radulov are lighting up like Christmas trees.

Even Datsyuk who's also clearly declining is at 15GP 6G 13A 19Pts


Last edited by Riddum: 11-05-2012 at 09:21 AM.
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Old
11-05-2012, 09:39 AM
  #323
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While I agree with the post, I have to say that Malkin simply has a better and more complete game (More suited for hockey, period).

The difference between great players and all time greats is that the latter are able to adjust their game, once their physical prime began to decline. Ovi hasn't shown that he can. So that's why he's past his prime and simply not in the conversation for best player anymore.

People mention how the KHL is a notoriously low scoring league, yet guys like Malkin, Kovalchuk and Radulov are lighting up like Christmas trees.

Even Datsyuk who's also clearly declining is at 15GP 6G 13A 19Pts
You could easily say the NHL is a joke if you compared OV's stats in the RSL to the NHL. it goes both ways.

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Old
11-05-2012, 11:55 AM
  #324
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You could easily say the NHL is a joke if you compared OV's stats in the RSL to the NHL. it goes both ways.
He wasn't getting first line minutes nor first line power play time, when he played in RSL.

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11-05-2012, 12:47 PM
  #325
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So much ovi hate. I think he can still win a richard and a cup.

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