HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > The Business of Hockey
The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, and NHL revenues.

Make Whole, Not War (CBA & Lockout Discussion) XIX

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
11-02-2012, 03:40 PM
  #1
mouser
Global Moderator
Business of Hockey
 
mouser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: South Mountain
Posts: 11,439
vCash: 500
Make Whole, Not War (CBA & Lockout Discussion) XIX

Carry on, previous thread here:
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1277529


Last edited by mouser: 11-02-2012 at 05:15 PM.
mouser is offline  
Old
11-02-2012, 05:15 PM
  #2
SidTheKid8787
Registered User
 
SidTheKid8787's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 6,271
vCash: 500
Carried over from the last thread:

Originally Posted by SidTheKid8787 View Post
Dreger just broke on TSN sportscenter the owners are coming forth with a potential make whole provision having the owners foot the bill. 150 million the first year. 50mil the 2nd year.

He said talks could resume start of next week if it gains traction.

Darren Dreger ‏@DarrenDreger
As we just discussed on Sportscentre. NHL advised PA it will absorb share of Make Whole provision. This is a considerable concession.

SidTheKid8787 is offline  
Old
11-02-2012, 05:15 PM
  #3
rdawg1234
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,588
vCash: 500
Without doing the math I think that's around half of paying the entire contracts out.

so it's similar to 54%, then 51% isnt it in the first two years? or something along those lines?

rdawg1234 is offline  
Old
11-02-2012, 05:15 PM
  #4
Marc the Habs Fan
Moderator
Ours!
 
Marc the Habs Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Longueuil
Country: Canada
Posts: 50,354
vCash: 597
Encouraging news tonight, as long as the NHL keeps it at 50/50...

Marc the Habs Fan is online now  
Old
11-02-2012, 05:15 PM
  #5
Tyler Biggs
Go Leafs Go!
 
Tyler Biggs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,106
vCash: 500
I'm starting to hope for a complete season cancellation so both sides lose a ton of money...

Tyler Biggs is offline  
Old
11-02-2012, 05:16 PM
  #6
Dellstrom
The new age
 
Dellstrom's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Boston
Country: United States
Posts: 17,327
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
Encouraging news tonight, as long as the NHL keeps it at 50/50...
I'm still not getting optimistic about anything. It's worked for 2 weeks now.

If anything, I'm more pessimistic at this. Only more of a surprise if it works out. I'll just be missing hockey that much more with no Pats this week...

Dellstrom is offline  
Old
11-02-2012, 05:18 PM
  #7
sixgunsdad
Registered User
 
sixgunsdad's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 134
vCash: 500
Not sure it's enough of a concession to move forward but at least it's something

sixgunsdad is offline  
Old
11-02-2012, 05:18 PM
  #8
CN_paladin
Registered User
 
CN_paladin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Westeros
Posts: 2,657
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SidTheKid8787 View Post
Carried over from the last thread:

Originally Posted by SidTheKid8787 View Post
Dreger just broke on TSN sportscenter the owners are coming forth with a potential make whole provision having the owners foot the bill. 150 million the first year. 50mil the 2nd year.

He said talks could resume start of next week if it gains traction.

Darren Dreger ‏@DarrenDreger
As we just discussed on Sportscentre. NHL advised PA it will absorb share of Make Whole provision. This is a considerable concession.
Then why did the NHL cancel the WS if they were to concede much more than the 0.25M penalty that UofM could impose?

CN_paladin is offline  
Old
11-02-2012, 05:19 PM
  #9
Guardian17
Strong & Free
 
Guardian17's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,018
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SidTheKid8787 View Post
Carried over from the last thread:

Originally Posted by SidTheKid8787 View Post
Dreger just broke on TSN sportscenter the owners are coming forth with a potential make whole provision having the owners foot the bill. 150 million the first year. 50mil the 2nd year.

He said talks could resume start of next week if it gains traction.

Darren Dreger ‏@DarrenDreger
As we just discussed on Sportscentre. NHL advised PA it will absorb share of Make Whole provision. This is a considerable concession.
The NHL makes another concession and the NHLPA just stalls.

Guardian17 is offline  
Old
11-02-2012, 05:20 PM
  #10
tarheelhockey
Global Moderator
 
tarheelhockey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: The Triangle
Country: United States
Posts: 32,046
vCash: 500
It's not a coincidence that the NHL is making a significantly better offer at the same time they cancel the Winter Classic.

The PA had better get serious about negotiating, immediately. The NHL is basically in a position to go into a shell until January if this offer doesn't kickstart talks. A better opportunity to get paychecks for 2012-13 paychecks won't be forthcoming.

I hope Fehr isn't obstinate enough to try and push the owners any further. They've already made a considerable show of ill-intentions just to get to this point.

tarheelhockey is offline  
Old
11-02-2012, 05:21 PM
  #11
Krishna
Registered User
 
Krishna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Country: Canada
Posts: 82,048
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guardian17 View Post
The NHL makes another concession and the NHLPA just stalls.
All of the Pro PA people think the NHL hasn't made a single concession yet

Hopefully this gets them back to the table earlier than next week. Meet for awhile tomorrow.

save the damn season

Krishna is offline  
Old
11-02-2012, 05:21 PM
  #12
rdawg1234
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,588
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guardian17 View Post
The NHL makes another concession and the NHLPA just stalls.
I expect some kind of spin. Fehr "This is a great start", 2 days later PA replies with another delinked proposal and no changes to contracts.

rdawg1234 is offline  
Old
11-02-2012, 05:21 PM
  #13
Marc the Habs Fan
Moderator
Ours!
 
Marc the Habs Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Longueuil
Country: Canada
Posts: 50,354
vCash: 597
My best guess:

50/50 of 3.3 B in revenues = 1.65 B for each

The current contracts signed are, apparently for around 1.8 B this year. Maybe someone can confirm, but that number is the one that sticks out in my mind. Figure it will probably be around 1.9 B by the time the remaining RFAs sign and teams fill out their rosters.

1.9 B - 1.65 B = 250 M.

150 M means there's a 100 M gap.

But this is all dependent on HRR of 3.3 B (last year's)...which seems to be very unlikely considering the games cancelled already. So not sure if my calculation is all for nothing.

Marc the Habs Fan is online now  
Old
11-02-2012, 05:24 PM
  #14
Mike Jones
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 5,154
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SidTheKid8787 View Post
Carried over from the last thread:

Originally Posted by SidTheKid8787 View Post
Dreger just broke on TSN sportscenter the owners are coming forth with a potential make whole provision having the owners foot the bill. 150 million the first year. 50mil the 2nd year.

He said talks could resume start of next week if it gains traction.

Darren Dreger ‏@DarrenDreger
As we just discussed on Sportscentre. NHL advised PA it will absorb share of Make Whole provision. This is a considerable concession.
Yeah - but is Bettman gonna like this enough to support it? I know it's coming from the league side but that doesn't always mean the Count is on board does it?

Mike Jones is online now  
Old
11-02-2012, 05:25 PM
  #15
Marc the Habs Fan
Moderator
Ours!
 
Marc the Habs Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Longueuil
Country: Canada
Posts: 50,354
vCash: 597
Quote:
Originally Posted by Krishna View Post
All of the Pro PA people think the NHL hasn't made a single concession yet
I'm pro-NHL at this stage, but they haven't made a single concession if you compare with the CBA that just expired...at some point, they will have to in order to get an agreement done. Just like in 2005 when they gave players much lower UFA age.

If you compare their recent offers to their insulting offer of July, then yeah, there have been tons of concessions.

Marc the Habs Fan is online now  
Old
11-02-2012, 05:26 PM
  #16
rdawg1234
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,588
vCash: 500
There's been damage done. We're looking at around a 60 game season right now. Definitely not gonna hit the 3.3b especially with the WC gone.

rdawg1234 is offline  
Old
11-02-2012, 05:27 PM
  #17
mouser
Global Moderator
Business of Hockey
 
mouser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: South Mountain
Posts: 11,439
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
My best guess:

50/50 of 3.3 B in revenues = 1.65 B for each

The current contracts signed are, apparently for around 1.8 B this year. Maybe someone can confirm, but that number is the one that sticks out in my mind. Figure it will probably be around 1.9 B by the time the remaining RFAs sign and teams fill out their rosters.

1.9 B - 1.65 B = 250 M.

150 M means there's a 100 M gap.

But this is all dependent on HRR of 3.3 B (last year's)...which seems to be very unlikely considering the games cancelled already. So not sure if my calculation is all for nothing.
Don't forget the $90m in non-salary benefits.

mouser is offline  
Old
11-02-2012, 05:28 PM
  #18
SidTheKid8787
Registered User
 
SidTheKid8787's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 6,271
vCash: 500
Dreger tweeted he's back on shortly to describe it more(perhaps?)

SidTheKid8787 is offline  
Old
11-02-2012, 05:29 PM
  #19
rdawg1234
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,588
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
I'm pro-NHL at this stage, but they haven't made a single concession if you compare with the CBA that just expired...at some point, they will have to in order to get an agreement done. Just like in 2005 when they gave players much lower UFA age.

If you compare their recent offers to their insulting offer of July, then yeah, there have been tons of concessions.
But what concessions can they make. the UFA thing was one, but how much further can it drop(it's already 25 if played for 7 years or 27 otherwise)

What do the players want that doesnt include the full 57%? plus contract limits/variations NEED to change for the good of the league. So there's not much breathing room there.

rdawg1234 is offline  
Old
11-02-2012, 05:30 PM
  #20
surixon
Registered User
 
surixon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,212
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by tarheelhockey View Post
It's not a coincidence that the NHL is making a significantly better offer at the same time they cancel the Winter Classic.

The PA had better get serious about negotiating, immediately. The NHL is basically in a position to go into a shell until January if this offer doesn't kickstart talks. A better opportunity to get paychecks for 2012-13 paychecks won't be forthcoming.

I hope Fehr isn't obstinate enough to try and push the owners any further. They've already made a considerable show of ill-intentions just to get to this point.
Agreed, the PA cant use the Winter Classic as leverage.

So the NHL is now going to offer a soft landing of sorts, I'd like to say that I'm optimistic but this is Fehr that we are talking about.

surixon is online now  
Old
11-02-2012, 05:30 PM
  #21
Tinalera
Registered User
 
Tinalera's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: The Known Universe
Posts: 6,014
vCash: 500
It will be interesting to see if this move by the owners gets some traction, however if the PA still goes the "we aren't going to lose a nickel in payments" route, then yea I go with the idea that NHL goes into a shell till Jan.

Tinalera is online now  
Old
11-02-2012, 05:30 PM
  #22
Ilrider
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Chicago Burbs
Country: United States
Posts: 353
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Krishna View Post
All of the Pro PA people think the NHL hasn't made a single concession yet

Hopefully this gets them back to the table earlier than next week. Meet for awhile tomorrow.

save the damn season
While I lean pro-PA, being a union member myself, I realized the NHL made some concessions with their last offer, but I also understood when the PA didn't take it as is. The PA's holdout is earning them more concessions, as I fully expected. Fehr is not the dummy everyone makes him out to be. He is a shrewd negotiator. That said, I will be mad if the PA doesn't help make a deal soon after this latest news. Let's get on that ice!

Ilrider is offline  
Old
11-02-2012, 05:32 PM
  #23
CanadianHockey
Smith - Alfie
 
CanadianHockey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: uOttawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 28,658
vCash: 2391
Quote:
Originally Posted by Krishna View Post
All of the Pro PA people think the NHL hasn't made a single concession yet

Hopefully this gets them back to the table earlier than next week. Meet for awhile tomorrow.

save the damn season
The NHL hasn't made any concessions compared to the last CBA. The only thing the players are getting out of this proposal that is an improvement, for them, on the last CBA is a shorter ELC and more revenue sharing.


Anyway, this is close to where the NHL needs to be for the PA to accept. They're getting toward the middle ground where the existing salaries that go over 50% of HRR are split, with half counting against HRR and half being 'on the side'

__________________
CanadianHockey________ __ __________Sens, Oilers, and Team Canada
CanadianHockey is offline  
Old
11-02-2012, 05:34 PM
  #24
billysbreakdown
Registered User
 
billysbreakdown's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 3,323
vCash: 235
**** this league and the jerks playing in it.

How can you operate something this poorly? It's absolutely beyond my mind.
Just when things started to look good for this sport in NA, next thing you know = a complete faceplant.

I love hockey, I really do, but I can't imagine how I'm gonna keep up my interest if we lose a season, AGAIN.

It's a goddamned disgrace, I hope they never recover from this. And they probably won't.

billysbreakdown is offline  
Old
11-02-2012, 05:34 PM
  #25
IDuck
Registered User
 
IDuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Country: United States
Posts: 4,814
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by tarheelhockey View Post
It's not a coincidence that the NHL is making a significantly better offer at the same time they cancel the Winter Classic.

The PA had better get serious about negotiating, immediately. The NHL is basically in a position to go into a shell until January if this offer doesn't kickstart talks. A better opportunity to get paychecks for 2012-13 paychecks won't be forthcoming.

I hope Fehr isn't obstinate enough to try and push the owners any further. They've already made a considerable show of ill-intentions just to get to this point.
completely agree...wouldnt be surprised if PA take's usual stance, but at some point the NHL will say, thats it, season's wiped out, and now we are pissed.

IDuck is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:56 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.