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2012-2013 CHL/NCAA/Euro Prospects thread 2.0

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Old
11-01-2012, 10:01 PM
  #326
NotProkofievian
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Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
Don't bother with that poster, his main mission is to constantly be negative about our prospects and bash the hype around them.

Vail adds an assist and was +3.
Captain Realism to the rescue, to make sure that none of us actually enjoy a decent prospect pool.

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11-01-2012, 10:43 PM
  #327
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Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
Don't bother with that poster, his main mission is to constantly be negative about our prospects and bash the hype around them.

Vail adds an assist and was +3.
What do we have here? Do we have Kyle Chipchura without the 1st round pick status to live up to or do we have something better or worse for that matter?

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11-01-2012, 10:48 PM
  #328
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Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
Don't bother with that poster, his main mission is to constantly be negative about our prospects and bash the hype around them.

Vail adds an assist and was +3.
My comment was refering to the comments about Bozon's linemates, but yes, I tend to react negatively to fanboyism in here because want I would want to read is reports about the progression of prospects, the type of players we can expect them to become, their strenghts, their weaknesses, etc.

But no, all you get is the usual crap: "that guy's a steal", "this player's coach sucks because he's not giving him enough icetime", "this player is not producing because he has ****** linemates", etc.

I still take a look everyday to follow their point production, but there are really few attempt at legitimate and honest scouting reports in here.

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11-01-2012, 10:52 PM
  #329
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Gustave, Vail is not the physical presence that Chipchura is/was. He is however a much better skater and shooter IMO. Passing skills are comparable. I would say Vail is comparable to Chris Kelly a little bit. Skating is probably what will make him a better long term NHL option than Chipchura. As to what his ceiling will be, its hard to tell at this point, but I would say he will likely play in the NHL one day as at least a bottom six player.

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11-01-2012, 11:42 PM
  #330
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
I always stunned by those brillant reports of people saying that Bozon isn't the catalyst of his line, just the sniper.....Well guess what...that's why he was chosen, and that's what people are expecting of him. Now, if Lipon and Smith are good "catalysts" on his team, chances are he'll find some more in higher levels. Him making it or not has nothing to do with how catalyst he is....but how productive he will be since it's tougher on the way up.
What exactly is it that's making you think people saying Bozon isn't the catalyst of his line is a negative thing?

A factual assessment is not necessarily a criticism.

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11-02-2012, 12:50 AM
  #331
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Just learn out that Palushaj was drafted immediately after PK Subban in 2007. He was drafted in 2nd round (#44 overall), while PK was #43.

Before, I thought PK is much older than Palushaj.

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11-02-2012, 01:40 AM
  #332
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The only issue I have with Vail is a feel if everything goes right for the both of them he will play a very similar role to Bournival. He doesn't quite have Bournival's motor (who does?) but they are both very intelligent centers who will never be offensive forces in the NHL but have a decent skill level, not to mention both play hard without being overly physical.

Depth isn't a bad thing when talking about prospects but I can see them competing for the same job someday.

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11-02-2012, 02:11 AM
  #333
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
The only issue I have with Vail is a feel if everything goes right for the both of them he will play a very similar role to Bournival. He doesn't quite have Bournival's motor (who does?) but they are both very intelligent centers who will never be offensive forces in the NHL but have a decent skill level, not to mention both play hard without being overly physical.

Depth isn't a bad thing when talking about prospects but I can see them competing for the same job someday.
I don't think either need to play a centre game in order to be effective, though. I think you could easily convert one or the other to the wing.

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11-02-2012, 02:48 AM
  #334
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Well you can blame Bozon's 0 pts on me tonight.

I went to go see him tonight against the Rockets and I think the whole Kamloops team looked a little sluggish and sloppy. Could also credit Kelowna for containing the Blazers. Probably a little column A and column B.

As far as Bozon goes, his line was far from electric tonight but I still liked what I saw. I've always had a bit of a hunch that Bozon is more than just a 'finisher' and despite his pointless game I feel that my hunch was right.

I think he was the best on his line tonight. Smith is fast with the puck and I didn't see much from Lipon at all. Bozon drew a penalty on a partial breakaway drive to the net. He showed some nice hands on a few plays and made a few decent passes.

He's not Galchenyuk by any means but I did see him create offense by himself. From what I saw he's the most skilled on the Blazers. Who knows how he'll translate his game to the pros but in my eyes he's more than just a pure sniper.

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Old
11-02-2012, 02:53 AM
  #335
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I don't think either need to play a centre game in order to be effective, though. I think you could easily convert one or the other to the wing.
Yeah, I guess, but on the wings we also have Holland in the running, among others, Leblanc has second line potential on the wings but depending on how this team is constructed in a few years he could end up being a great third liner, and of course there's Eller who some think has limited offensive upside...

This isn't a bad thing at all, especially since we never know how any of these guys will develop, but something to consider for the future, especially when you have Habs fans already rushing to trade one of Plekanec or Eller ASAP...

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11-02-2012, 07:06 AM
  #336
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Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
What exactly is it that's making you think people saying Bozon isn't the catalyst of his line is a negative thing?

A factual assessment is not necessarily a criticism.
'Cause most posts that says it, are indeed a criticism when you read the whole thing. Anybody who writes it that doesn't imply a criticism, as my post did, isn't obviously targeted in my comment. Don't worry, I understand. 'Cause if you read carefully....my post did just that. Naming him a non-catalyst player AND not bashing him.

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11-02-2012, 07:07 AM
  #337
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I really hope Vail makes it at the WJC. If there's one guy that would benefit from it it's him.

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11-02-2012, 09:48 AM
  #338
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I really hope Vail makes it at the WJC. If there's one guy that would benefit from it it's him.
Me too, it would be great for him and there's at least an argument to be made that he deserves to be there.

But this is the same program that wouldn't take Patrick Kane when he was playing in the OHL, so you can't exactly count on it. Hell, is Gally even a lock? I honestly can't understand the US team's selection process sometimes.

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Old
11-02-2012, 10:05 AM
  #339
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Vail is directly involved in over 43% of his teams goals. He's been a pleasant suprise with his offence this year, while still being very responsible on defence.

We'll have some talented offensive players breaking through in Hamilton or Montreal in the next 1-2 years...

Alex Galchenyuk
Danny Kristo
Sebastian Collberg
Tim Bozon
Brady Vail
Charles Hudon

I'm also anxious to see Dietz, Thrower and Bennett (hopefully) next year in Hamilton.

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Old
11-02-2012, 10:29 AM
  #340
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It's ironic how the Blazers are playing so well because Guy Charron is the coach and in his 16plus seasons playing in nhl never made the playoffs and his coaching in nhl was not much better
I noticed that Charron was behind the bench when I caught my first Blazers game this year, was very impressed with how they played as a team. Whatever he's doing, it's working. Would be great if they were Memorial Cup bound to have Bozon against Dietz/Thrower would be fun to watch.

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Originally Posted by LeMAD View Post
Seeing prospects do well at junior level is great and everything, but it doesn't mean much about how good they're gonna be as pros.
Agreed. I remember when Milroy had 92 pts as a 17 year old, he had that big playoff run the following year as well but ended up busting. I personally don't put too much stock into what they do at the junior level, for me it's more what they do in the AHL that I put much more stock into.

Quote:
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What do we have here? Do we have Kyle Chipchura without the 1st round pick status to live up to or do we have something better or worse for that matter?
Vail looks like he's more flashy and a better shot (never liked Chippers shot) and doesn't have the frame although he's still really young so we'll see how much he fills out over the next couple of years. Other then both being solid defensive forwards I don't think they compare very well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
I really hope Vail makes it at the WJC. If there's one guy that would benefit from it it's him.
He should be a lock for 2014, if he doesn't make it. I would think he at least will get an invite to the winter camp.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullsmith View Post
Hell, is Gally even a lock? I honestly can't understand the US team's selection process sometimes.
Yes Gally is a lock. Team USA likes to go with players from the US National Development Team.

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Old
11-02-2012, 11:57 AM
  #341
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What do we have here? Do we have Kyle Chipchura without the 1st round pick status to live up to or do we have something better or worse for that matter?
Chipchura had below average skating. Vail has above average skating. Styles are somewhat different though. If his offense keeps developing Vail could be better than a #3 center.

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Old
11-02-2012, 12:01 PM
  #342
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Me too, it would be great for him and there's at least an argument to be made that he deserves to be there.

But this is the same program that wouldn't take Patrick Kane when he was playing in the OHL, so you can't exactly count on it. Hell, is Gally even a lock? I honestly can't understand the US team's selection process sometimes.
Their process is easy to understand, they take NDP, NCAA and USHL players when at all possible, CHL guys need to be locks in order to be chosen.

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Old
11-02-2012, 12:36 PM
  #343
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What do we have here? Do we have Kyle Chipchura without the 1st round pick status to live up to or do we have something better or worse for that matter?
Vail doesn't possess the same level of physicality that Chipchura has, but he still finishes his checks.

Vail is a more skilled player in my eyes. He's a much much better skater than Chipchura, Vail's a very deceptively fast skater. He also has a more powerful shot than Chipchura, but that's not the main selling point of his shot. It's his accuracy. Vail's shot isn't the most powerful but it's pin point accurate and he always makes the goalie work when he fires the puck on net.

His main selling point though is his hockey sense. Vail comes away with at least 3 pass interceptions every game, he reads the play extremely well. He also is a very smart PKer and does quiet a few smarts plays when he's on the ice. Vail isn't immune to mistakes though. He has a tendency to get caught up in the play and lose his man.

Vail also is a good passer, but he's not a "traditional centre" in the fact that uses both wings to pass to. Instead he'd rather come down the wing and pass the puck into the centre. That makes me think that he'd be very comfortable at the wing as well.

I think that he may have some untapped offensive potential because of Vail hockey sense, shot, and speed. He certainly has all the skills to become more than a third line centre, so it will be interesting to see how he uses them in the future.

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11-02-2012, 01:34 PM
  #344
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Agreed. I remember when Milroy had 92 pts as a 17 year old, he had that big playoff run the following year as well but ended up busting. I personally don't put too much stock into what they do at the junior level, for me it's more what they do in the AHL that I put much more stock into.
It's less about what they do, and more about how they do it.

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11-02-2012, 01:35 PM
  #345
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Besides, projecting once a prospect is in the AHL is too easy. Projecting someone in juniors (or earlier) is the real challenge

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11-02-2012, 01:37 PM
  #346
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It's less about what they do, and more about how they do it.
Sure, but you won't get a lot of that around here since many are just going off stats in the first place which in of it's self is a problem. I personally look at how they improve upon their weaknesses over the 2 years after being drafted, although I try to take everything into account.

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11-02-2012, 04:01 PM
  #347
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Sure, but you won't get a lot of that around here since many are just going off stats in the first place which in of it's self is a problem. I personally look at how they improve upon their weaknesses over the 2 years after being drafted, although I try to take everything into account.
The biggest joke is when people here put emphasis on a player's +/- in junior. It is a very poor stat to begin with and means even less when you are on the ice with 4 other teammates who have alot to learn about the defensive game.

The best way to analyze a prospects potential is to understand what is succesful at the pro level and to ascertain whether that player is demonstrating those abilities. Many junior players rack up big point totals using a bag of tricks that simply won't work in the NHL and they never develop the necessary skills to become a legitimate pro prospect. Pro style attributes combined with continuous improvement is what a scout looks for......not whether a player gets awarded a second assist on a goal or youtube highlights.

Unfortunately the mob is loud on these boards and it gets very tiresome being shouted down by know it alls who really don't have a clue what they are talking about. On the bright side, there are some very informed posters such as yourself and Grant McCagg who make this place worth coming to.

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11-02-2012, 05:13 PM
  #348
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The biggest joke is when people here put emphasis on a player's +/- in junior. It is a very poor stat to begin with and means even less when you are on the ice with 4 other teammates who have alot to learn about the defensive game.

The best way to analyze a prospects potential is to understand what is succesful at the pro level and to ascertain whether that player is demonstrating those abilities. Many junior players rack up big point totals using a bag of tricks that simply won't work in the NHL and they never develop the necessary skills to become a legitimate pro prospect. Pro style attributes combined with continuous improvement is what a scout looks for......not whether a player gets awarded a second assist on a goal or youtube highlights.

Unfortunately the mob is loud on these boards and it gets very tiresome being shouted down by know it alls who really don't have a clue what they are talking about. On the bright side, there are some very informed posters such as yourself and Grant McCagg who make this place worth coming to.
Good points, was never a fan of +/- as a stat (although I fully admit I am not a big fan of stats in general). Grant has been helpful in the past as staying on top of 30+ prospects every year isn't easy and can be very time consuming, so it always helps to have a few people that you can trust for solid info (especially with our Euro prospects since it can be hard to see them in action if they aren't in the wjc's)

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11-02-2012, 06:23 PM
  #349
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11-02-2012, 06:50 PM
  #350
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Sure, but you won't get a lot of that around here since many are just going off stats in the first place which in of it's self is a problem. I personally look at how they improve upon their weaknesses over the 2 years after being drafted, although I try to take everything into account.
Agree 100%. Everybody's an expert here at HF, lmao! For the record, I wasn't trying to contradict you, more lending to your point.

I personally find the one thing that will always carry over, is hockey sense. I always say to my friends that, I'll never fault a player for having the right idea. You can develop skating, shooting, and stick-handling but it's much harder to develop that puck poise and awareness. The ability to immediately make the right reads, while under pressure, is something that transcends skill. In my opinion!

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