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Old
10-30-2012, 06:56 AM
  #76
topshelf15
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WPG wont be trading him anytime soon ,so ill just say he is untouchable and move on.

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10-30-2012, 08:29 AM
  #77
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IMO you'd be silly not to entertain a Yakopov for Bogosian deal.
With Enstrom, Buff, Hainsey, Stuart, and Postma and Trouba coming up, the Jets would be fine on D in the next couple of years.

They need elite forward talent, and Yak fits the bill.

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10-30-2012, 08:57 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by cneely View Post
IMO you'd be silly not to entertain a Yakopov for Bogosian deal.
With Enstrom, Buff, Hainsey, Stuart, and Postma and Trouba coming up, the Jets would be fine on D in the next couple of years.

They need elite forward talent, and Yak fits the bill.
You ignor the Jets needs. Last year Jets played a pretty soft game, with a few exceptions. So trading their 6'3 230 lbs big hitting shutdown d-man for an 18 year old Russian who plays along the edges is certainly not going to help that. Wing is probably the Jets strength with a 20 year old 30 goal winger in Kane and their top point getter in Wheeler.

Finally the Jets d will not be fine without Bogo. Enstrom is offensively gifted but is undersized, Buff also offensively gifted but tends to play like a rover and IMO is a defensive liability. Hainsey is on the last year of a contract that drastically over pays him so he likely won't be around unless he signs for a lot less. Postma has yet to show a defensive side to his game that will allow him to be a regular. I love Stuart and he is as tough as nails but he is a third pairing plugger. Trouba will be a good one but he is an 18 year old freshman and is likely 3 or 4 years away. Bogo is our most complete d-man and is as of now and at 22 is our only hope for an all around franchise defenseman.

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Old
10-30-2012, 09:51 AM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cneely View Post
IMO you'd be silly not to entertain a Yakopov for Bogosian deal.
With Enstrom, Buff, Hainsey, Stuart, and Postma and Trouba coming up, the Jets would be fine on D in the next couple of years.

They need elite forward talent, and Yak fits the bill.
Jets were 12th in scoring, and 26th in GA last year. Goals for aren't the problem - goals against are, and trading one of their best (if not their best) shut down defensemen won't improve that. I'm surprised that a Boston fan would advocate loading up on high-scoring forwards - if anything, the Jets have a similar make-up to Boston in terms of how their goal scoring is spread out amongst the forwards.

Trouba has great potential, but is probably 3-4 years away from the big show.

Yakupov has tremendous potential, but I wouldn't trade Bogo for him at this point if I were the Jets GM.

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10-30-2012, 09:59 AM
  #80
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What about Despres+Orpik+ Sundqvist for Bogosian + 3rd ?

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10-30-2012, 10:36 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by pens17fan View Post
What about Despres+Orpik+ Sundqvist for Bogosian + 3rd ?
And the point of trade is? Where is #1 C or top-end C prospect.

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10-30-2012, 12:05 PM
  #82
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Bogosian is pretty underrated, he's a very goode Dman on a not so good team.

From the Avs, depending on what Stastny and Duchene played like if there were a season, I would consider a Duchene for Bogosian+ trade, with the + being something like a prospect, nothing major. Or I would also consider a Stastny+ for Bogosian, once again with the + being something like a prospect, but nothing major.

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10-30-2012, 01:43 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Avsare1 View Post
Bogosian is pretty underrated, he's a very goode Dman on a not so good team.

From the Avs, depending on what Stastny and Duchene played like if there were a season, I would consider a Duchene for Bogosian+ trade, with the + being something like a prospect, nothing major. Or I would also consider a Stastny+ for Bogosian, once again with the + being something like a prospect, but nothing major.
as most of this thread would tell you, there certainly wouldn't be + involved from the jets. Unless your "depending on what stastny and duchene played like" included either putting up 75 + points. I think statsny's a no go. Duchene i'd do. but at the same time, i I love bogo so i could probably be offered the moon and stars and still refuse it.

He's a potential franchise player (which is essentially the best you can hope for other then established franchise player) who has a great attitude and loves the city.

essentially we would need a young "fringe" #1 center, who has the potential to be a franchise center, who has displayed an excellent work ethic, character, and commitment to Winnipegs franchise in return (which is technically impossible because how can you show commitment to an organization your not a part of?)

To be honest, I just don't know what kind of an upgrade we could get? From a Winnipeg perspective Bogo is almost the ceiling of any players worth.

His "gamble" is in his playing ability. Anyone we trade him for with less "gamble" in playing ability, will have more "gamble" in character/franchise commitment/etc, so really, what's the benefit besides strength at a different position- something that doesn't benefit Winnipeg as we arguably need more strength at defense then at forward (based off stats.)

Even the old "overpayment" (which is the mythical Unicorn of HFboards ie: it doesn't exist) doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

There just isn't realistically much of an upgrade to be had from Winnipeg's perspective, at least not something that's anywhere within the realm of reality.

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Old
10-30-2012, 05:58 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cneely View Post
IMO you'd be silly not to entertain a Yakopov for Bogosian deal.
With Enstrom, Buff, Hainsey, Stuart, and Postma and Trouba coming up, the Jets would be fine on D in the next couple of years.

They need elite forward talent, and Yak fits the bill.
I wouldnt entertain anything that isnt a #1 C
Since rnh isnt going any where, Winnipeg isnt a good partner for Edmonton

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Old
11-02-2012, 01:43 AM
  #85
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Think EJ trade IMO

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11-02-2012, 01:47 AM
  #86
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Bogosian gets injured way too much. No way I'd trade Duchene or Stasny for him.

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Old
11-02-2012, 01:49 AM
  #87
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Duchene + something small for Bogosian?


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Old
11-02-2012, 01:52 AM
  #88
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Wish it was still Kindl and two first round picks.

Not one of Holland's better days not going through with that deal.

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11-02-2012, 06:34 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by HockeyFan100 View Post
Bogosian gets injured way too much. No way I'd trade Duchene or Stasny for him.


what?

duchene played less game then bogosian did last year.

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Old
11-02-2012, 06:59 AM
  #90
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Originally Posted by HockeyFan100 View Post
Bogosian gets injured way too much. No way I'd trade Duchene or Stasny for him.
Actually a lot of the time Bogo has missed can be traced to one chronic wrist injury that has bothered him for years and he has played through. He has since had off season surgery to repair it with an excellent prognoses for a full recovery.

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11-02-2012, 07:10 AM
  #91
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Originally Posted by RedWings19405 View Post
Wish it was still Kindl and two first round picks.

Not one of Holland's better days not going through with that deal.
I think that was in 2011 so Bogosian for Kindl, 2012 first (traded for Quincey), Ouellet and Jurco.

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11-02-2012, 07:12 AM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Jet Oil View Post
I don't care that Yakupov hasn't played a game in the NHL. There's no risk with a can't miss prospect. Who was the last 1st overall, star forward, who didn't turn out to be an NHL All-star. Yakupov broke Stamkos' goal scoring record in Sarnia, and has 8 goals and 10 ponits in 11 KHL games right now, as a teenager playing against men in arguably the best active pro league in the world right now. Dont give me the argument that he isn't worth anything because he hasn't played an NHL game. Neither has Nathan Mackinnon, but I bet you value that 1st overall pick pretty highly right now.

You're putting down and passing on Yak because all he is is potential right now. But so is Bogosian. Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge fan of Bogo (I even have his jersey), but this was the first year in his 4 year career that he started to show what he could become. I think Yakupov and Bogosian are pretty close in value.

As for Sutter, I hope he turns into something one day, but right now he's got 3 points and is a -10 in 14 WHL games. Where are you getting a future Ryan Kesler from that? I like him, but his ceiling would probably be a 3rd line centre. Not exactly a deal breaker.
Extremely logical with well-thought-out points. What are you doing in this thread? You're supposed to be laughing at the other side's idiotic arguments while making the exact same arguments yourself.

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11-02-2012, 08:41 AM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Jet Oil View Post
Trust me, I've got a man-crush on Bogosian too. I'm one of those Jets fans that want to see him stick around for a long time. All I'm saying is Yakupov is the kind of player that might be worth the gamble.

5 years down the road, when Bogo is a very solid #2 dman on a team that has Enstrom, Byfuglien, Trouba, Postma, and Stuart for support, defense will be the last of Winnipeg's worries. At that point, looking back, maybe trading him for a 40-50 goal scorer would look like it was a good idea. The Jets would still boast a defense in the top half of the league, while having some firepower at forward that could actually get them into the playoffs.

Almost any other player and I agree Bogo is untouchable, it needs to be someone that can be the future of the franchise.
Pretty decent thread until it became just about Bogosian and Yakupov.

I understand your thought process here Jet Oil, I think when I try to look 5 years into the future though, I'm a little more worried about the Jets D then the forwards. Of course anything can happen from now to then (trades, Free Agents, etc), but in 5 years I don't think Buff is going to be on the top pairing.

Again, not knowing what other transactions may happen, I could see Enstrom, Bogo, and Trouba as the top 3, with Buff getting much more sheltered minutes and PP time. Without Bogo in the mix, I think the Jets are taking a huge gamble that A) Buff will be able to improve and stay on the top pair for years to come, and that B) one or more D in the organization, VASTLY overachieve (like a Redmond, Postma, Melchirori) to pick up the slack.

In 5 years, while not world beaters, I think our forwards should be in better shape than the D, especially if we lost Bogo. Kane, Wheeler, Ladd, Little, Burmistrov, and Scheifele should be the top 6, with guys like Telegin, Cormier, Lowry, Klingberg, Machacek, Kosmachuk, Sutter, and Olsen on the bottom 6.

Certainly adding Yakupov to that mix makes it a while lot better, but the question is, does adding Yakupov at the cost of Bogosian make the Jets better? You say yes, I'm worried that our defensive depth isn't capable of handling that trade and say no.

Value wise I think it's a good trade. And yes, in 5 years if Yakupov has multiple 50+ goal seasons it could be a trade that Jets ownership wishes they made in hindsight.

Didn't the Oilers have a chance to trade Comrie for Perry (or something to that affect), at one point?

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11-02-2012, 09:09 AM
  #94
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Originally Posted by King Woodballs View Post


what?

duchene played less game then bogosian did last year.
Bogosian
08-09: 47 games
09-10: 81 games
10-11: 71 games
11-12: 65 games
12-13: Out till December

Duchene
09-10: 81 games
10-11: 80 games
11-12: 58 games
12-13: Healthy

Go figure.

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Old
11-02-2012, 09:50 AM
  #95
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Originally Posted by cneely View Post
IMO you'd be silly not to entertain a Yakopov for Bogosian deal.
They would be silly not to entertain a Toews for Bogosian deal. Thats about it.

As for Yakupov, try again.

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Old
11-02-2012, 06:52 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by HockeyFan100 View Post
Bogosian
08-09: 47 games
09-10: 81 games
10-11: 71 games
11-12: 65 games
12-13: Out till December

Duchene
09-10: 81 games
10-11: 80 games
11-12: 58 games
12-13: Healthy

Go figure.
12-13 doesn't matter much does it. I hope they are both playing by December. Other than a major injury in his rookie season most of the rest of the games Bogo has missed was due to a chronic wrist injury that has now been repaired. I wouldn't consider either as an injury risk going forward. Duchene is one guy I would love the Jets to get...the problem is Bogo is the last (and I mean the very last) guy I would want the Jets to trade.

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Old
11-02-2012, 07:46 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by TSA0402 View Post
They would be silly not to entertain a Toews for Bogosian deal. Thats about it.

As for Yakupov, try again.
You're suggesting it's laughable to consider trading Bogosian for Yakupov? I'm a big Bogo fan but that's just ridiculous. You have a poor grasp of player values, especially when you consider their respective years of guaranteed contract control.

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Old
11-02-2012, 09:09 PM
  #98
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You're suggesting it's laughable to consider trading Bogosian for Yakupov? I'm a big Bogo fan but that's just ridiculous. You have a poor grasp of player values, especially when you consider their respective years of guaranteed contract control.
It is.

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Old
11-02-2012, 09:11 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by HockeyFan100 View Post
Bogosian
08-09: 47 games
09-10: 81 games
10-11: 71 games
11-12: 65 games
12-13: Out till December

Duchene
09-10: 81 games
10-11: 80 games
11-12: 58 games
12-13: Healthy

Go figure.
Both will play 0 games in 12-13
Go figure

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Old
11-03-2012, 01:23 AM
  #100
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Pretty decent thread until it became just about Bogosian and Yakupov.

I understand your thought process here Jet Oil, I think when I try to look 5 years into the future though, I'm a little more worried about the Jets D then the forwards. Of course anything can happen from now to then (trades, Free Agents, etc), but in 5 years I don't think Buff is going to be on the top pairing.

Again, not knowing what other transactions may happen, I could see Enstrom, Bogo, and Trouba as the top 3, with Buff getting much more sheltered minutes and PP time. Without Bogo in the mix, I think the Jets are taking a huge gamble that A) Buff will be able to improve and stay on the top pair for years to come, and that B) one or more D in the organization, VASTLY overachieve (like a Redmond, Postma, Melchirori) to pick up the slack.

In 5 years, while not world beaters, I think our forwards should be in better shape than the D, especially if we lost Bogo. Kane, Wheeler, Ladd, Little, Burmistrov, and Scheifele should be the top 6, with guys like Telegin, Cormier, Lowry, Klingberg, Machacek, Kosmachuk, Sutter, and Olsen on the bottom 6.

Certainly adding Yakupov to that mix makes it a while lot better, but the question is, does adding Yakupov at the cost of Bogosian make the Jets better? You say yes, I'm worried that our defensive depth isn't capable of handling that trade and say no.

Value wise I think it's a good trade. And yes, in 5 years if Yakupov has multiple 50+ goal seasons it could be a trade that Jets ownership wishes they made in hindsight.

Didn't the Oilers have a chance to trade Comrie for Perry (or something to that affect), at one point?
The bolded is really the point I was trying to make. The Oilers fans in here are laughing at the Jets fans who are laughing at the idea of trading Bogo for Yak. All I'm saying is, as a fan of both teams, their value is relatively equal, which is maybe why both fan bases dislike the deal. (that's how these things work, right?)

I'm not saying I'd do the deal. If he's willing, I want to see Bogosian stay in Winnipeg for long time. But as a few people have stated, it would be an opportunity that deserves serious consideration.

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