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Make Whole, Not War (CBA & Lockout Discussion) XIX

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Old
11-02-2012, 09:36 PM
  #151
Steve
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I'm curious to see how this goes. I have been on the players side here for the whole time, I don't think it's fair that they should be the only people losing in this "negotiation". That being said, I also believe 50/50 makes the most sense moving forward and my belief is they should be forced to honor the contracts they were handing out. I mostly feel that for the LARGE contracts and the ones that were thrown about a few months ago.

VERY interested to see if this is a "real" proposal or another one where the NHL hope to get something past the NHLPA - like the last one that players paid players moving forward.

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Old
11-02-2012, 09:43 PM
  #152
Some Other Flame
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So much for the offers getting worse. Maybe the owners aren't all that comfortable throwing away another season.

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Old
11-02-2012, 09:47 PM
  #153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve View Post
...my belief is they should be forced to honor the contracts they were handing out. I mostly feel that for the LARGE contracts and the ones that were thrown about a few months ago.
...
I'm on the owner's side in this one, but I would normally support a labour group holding firm in solidarity for what what they believe is their right.

In this case, why do the signed contracts have to be honoured beyond the terms of the last CBA? And why especially the super-bonus-loaded contracts that were designed that way to reward the players outside of the obvious reduction they'd take in the next CBA?

I admit, I would take satisfaction in the over-paying GM's having to deal with those contracts... but I think they were negotiated with the CBA adjustment in mind, with outrageous amounts and up-front bonuses.

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Old
11-02-2012, 09:49 PM
  #154
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So much for the offers getting worse. Maybe the owners aren't all that comfortable throwing away another season.
I believe they want to play a profitable season, and this might be the last offer and timing that works.

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Old
11-02-2012, 09:49 PM
  #155
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Fehr will shoot down the make whole concession from the NHL IMO.

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Old
11-02-2012, 09:49 PM
  #156
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David Pagnotta ‏@TheFourthPeriod
The NHL and NHLPA will meet as early as tomorrow or as late as Monday. I'll have more on that shortly.

Pierre LeBrun ‏@Real_ESPNLeBrun
Bill Daly and Steve Fehr are meeting Saturday in undisclosed location to resume bargaining talks

Meeting over the weekend seems to signify there is urgency.

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Old
11-02-2012, 09:50 PM
  #157
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A Saturday session would mean real progress imo

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Old
11-02-2012, 09:53 PM
  #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
David Pagnotta ‏@TheFourthPeriod
The NHL and NHLPA will meet as early as tomorrow or as late as Monday. I'll have more on that shortly.

Pierre LeBrun ‏@Real_ESPNLeBrun
Bill Daly and Steve Fehr are meeting Saturday in undisclosed location to resume bargaining talks
Meeting over the weekend seems to signify there is urgency.
Seems like those two are the only ones that seem to be able to get anything done so them meeting face to face is a positive. I really just want to see this thing end.

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Old
11-02-2012, 09:55 PM
  #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
David Pagnotta ‏@TheFourthPeriod
The NHL and NHLPA will meet as early as tomorrow or as late as Monday. I'll have more on that shortly.

Pierre LeBrun ‏@Real_ESPNLeBrun
Bill Daly and Steve Fehr are meeting Saturday in undisclosed location to resume bargaining talks

Meeting over the weekend seems to signify there is urgency.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Renbarg View Post
A Saturday session would mean real progress imo
I dont see urgencey or real progress. Its not like theyve been meeting all week and are on the verge of completion. Theyve been sitting around for two weeks doing nothing of consequence.

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Old
11-02-2012, 09:56 PM
  #160
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Josh Rimer ‏@JoshRimerHockey
Is NHLPA really communicating with its players? Just asked NHL player about NHL's latest offer to PA, "Didn't know we met with the NHL."

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Old
11-02-2012, 09:57 PM
  #161
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Theres no reason why this shouldn't have been conceeded last week, but whatever.

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Old
11-02-2012, 09:58 PM
  #162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
David Pagnotta ‏@TheFourthPeriod
The NHL and NHLPA will meet as early as tomorrow or as late as Monday. I'll have more on that shortly.

Pierre LeBrun ‏@Real_ESPNLeBrun
Bill Daly and Steve Fehr are meeting Saturday in undisclosed location to resume bargaining talks

Meeting over the weekend seems to signify there is urgency.

I believe this is the first time meeting on a weekend!

And it is odd at an undisclosed location

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Old
11-02-2012, 09:58 PM
  #163
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Originally Posted by blasted_Sabre View Post
I dont see urgencey or real progress. Its not like theyve been meeting all week and are on the verge of completion. Theyve been sitting around for two weeks doing nothing of consequence.
Its been said they have had talks of "substance" over the phone

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Old
11-02-2012, 10:01 PM
  #164
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Originally Posted by Burtonboy View Post
Josh Rimer ‏@JoshRimerHockey
Is NHLPA really communicating with its players? Just asked NHL player about NHL's latest offer to PA, "Didn't know we met with the NHL."
I doubt all 30 NHL team reps are distributing the info to their teammates. All 30 NHL team reps probably aren't being given all the info either.

Likewise, the NHL owners of all 30 teams probably aren't getting all the info either.

It seems to be a 4 person ring.

Make it end. Ack!

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Old
11-02-2012, 10:01 PM
  #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flamingo View Post
I'm on the owner's side in this one, but I would normally support a labour group holding firm in solidarity for what what they believe is their right.

In this case, why do the signed contracts have to be honoured beyond the terms of the last CBA? And why especially the super-bonus-loaded contracts that were designed that way to reward the players outside of the obvious reduction they'd take in the next CBA?

I admit, I would take satisfaction in the over-paying GM's having to deal with those contracts... but I think they were negotiated with the CBA adjustment in mind, with outrageous amounts and up-front bonuses.
I agree with you. I just feel it's more of a right/wrong thing for me. CBA or not, in my opinion, you agree to something, you honor it. ie. Would you support the players if they wanted to roll back years on their contracts so they could simply file for UFA and leave town? I see this as a similar even from the players side.

I see what the owners are trying to do, and I can even agree and sympathize with them. I just think they made it, don't expect others to fix it because we all know, they will be working to get around it less than 24hours after it's done. They need make it right going forward and if you're a team, work together to get it there. I think the hard line of, this is what we want and when we want it, is just wrong.

Lastly, the reason I support the players is because they took a significant cut last time to help the owners get "cost certainty" which they have screwed up again. Will you support them if they lock out the players next time because "they feel they are just paying too much"? No other businesses are run with guaranteed profits.

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Old
11-02-2012, 10:03 PM
  #166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fire Sather View Post
Its been said they have had talks of "substance" over the phone
The PR wars are getting so annoying. I don't even believe words from the NHL or NHLPA anymore.

When the deal is done, that's when I'll trust these clowns again. If only for another 5-7 years.

Wish they would sign a 15yr deal.

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Old
11-02-2012, 10:12 PM
  #167
Some Other Flame
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burtonboy View Post
Josh Rimer ‏@JoshRimerHockey
Is NHLPA really communicating with its players? Just asked NHL player about NHL's latest offer to PA, "Didn't know we met with the NHL."
Meaningless. There are over 700 members in PA spread out across the world at the moment. Expecting all of them to be notified instantly is ridiculous.

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Old
11-02-2012, 10:13 PM
  #168
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Renaud P Lavoie ‏@RenLavoieRDS
The reason why the meeting is "secret" is to put the focus on talks and not on the message in front of the media.

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Old
11-02-2012, 10:13 PM
  #169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Some Other Flame View Post
Meaningless. There are over 700 members in PA spread out across the world at the moment. Expecting all of them to be notified instantly is ridiculous.
Yet they claim to be unified.. funny stuff.

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Old
11-02-2012, 10:17 PM
  #170
Some Other Flame
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Yet they claim to be unified.. funny stuff.
That's a rather desperate attempt at spin but whatever.

They are likely unified. At least to the same extent the owners are.

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Old
11-02-2012, 10:18 PM
  #171
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Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
Renaud P Lavoie ‏@RenLavoieRDS
The reason why the meeting is "secret" is to put the focus on talks and not on the message in front of the media.
so why arent Bettman and D Fehr going to be at the meeting also??

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Old
11-02-2012, 10:18 PM
  #172
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Josh Rimer ‏@JoshRimerHockey
Is NHLPA really communicating with its players? Just asked NHL player about NHL's latest offer to PA, "Didn't know we met with the NHL."
Why would he ask a player about the latest offer, when nothing's been offered yet? We're hearing speculation that may have come out of phone calls between the leaders of two sides. Daly says "Here's what we might be willing to do" Fehr says "Okay, that can get us back to the table"

That's it. Nothing's been proposed or offered or taken back to the players.

The "media" is getting really bad in all of this.

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Old
11-02-2012, 10:18 PM
  #173
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blasted_Sabre View Post
I dont see urgencey or real progress. Its not like theyve been meeting all week and are on the verge of completion. Theyve been sitting around for two weeks doing nothing of consequence.
You're assuming that face-to-face meetings are required in order to do something of consequence.

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Old
11-02-2012, 10:20 PM
  #174
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Some Other Flame View Post
That's a rather desperate attempt at spin but whatever.

They are likely unified. At least to the same extent the owners are.
Its not really a spin..

If some players are off earning money in Europe while others can't get jobs there, then no, they aren't unified..

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Old
11-02-2012, 10:22 PM
  #175
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Originally Posted by Some Other Flame View Post
Meaningless. There are over 700 members in PA spread out across the world at the moment. Expecting all of them to be notified instantly is ridiculous.
You're right - in this day and age how would the NHPLA contact the players...it's not like any of them own a cellphone or have the capability to interact on a variety of social medias. Heck, the NHLPA probably doesn't even have a centralized email account that all the players have instant access to for receiving information..

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