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2012-13 Lockout Discussion Part VI: The "What Comes Before Square One?" Edition

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Old
11-02-2012, 05:35 PM
  #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
Expect Fehr to counter with demand owners absorb entire share (thus not having a 50/50 split in reality) and for these talks to die again
Depends on how its implemented. If the make-whole pays out over life of the CBA, a fair amount of money gets deferred. The net effect would be something like a 53, 52, 51, 50.5, 50, 50 decrease. (But unlike simply dropping to that split, the players currently under contact would get the full value of their contracts rather than losing money off their deals).

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11-02-2012, 05:37 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
NHL doesn't have to worry about this for 9 years ,, Who knows what TV landscape/etc looks like at that time

Comcast views NHL as just part of its strategy to build viable national sports network. Expect them to be heavy in next round of NCAA/NFL rights negotiations and never doubt the possiblity that NFL Network sells off the Thursday night game eventually to NBCsports.
Well they just dropped out of the MLB talks. They overspent MASSIVELY on the Olympics and Comcast is reeling over the $ NBC Sports (the entity not just the channel) spends. What they want is a national network. They're questioning the affordability of it at this juncture. With the loss of momentum the NHL is providing the rats are starting to jump ship. F1 and Soccer are the new buoys and if I were the NHL I'd be concerned about the chunk I may lose to the latter.

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11-02-2012, 05:38 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
Problem is Fehr and PA showed with there 3 proposals they have no desire to actually achieve 50/50 split as the owners want
Oh, I agree. That's why I said the next several concessions need to come from the players. If they don't, we're going to lose a year and maybe more.

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11-02-2012, 05:38 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Canon1990 View Post
Sorry for my ignorance, and I havent been able to follow what was going on the past week, but what exactly is "Make Whole provision"? I don't remember hearing that expression over the past few months.
http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=643572

Quote:
Under our "make whole" proposal, which is premised upon a 5% anticipated growth of HRR both this year and in future years, every Player will be paid compensation based on the full value of the Players' Share under which his current SPC was signed.

In order to effectively transition from a Players' Share of 57 percent to 50 percent, including importantly to protect Players' current SPCs against an absolute reduction in Players' Share dollars, the new Agreement contemplates, in its initial years, a "make whole" mechanism that will effectively pay each Player currently under contract the difference between 50% of Actual HRR in 2012/13 and 57% of HRR in 2011/12 -- which was $1.883 Billion.

Again, premised upon an assumed 5% growth rate between 2011/12 and 2012/13, the "make whole" amount is calculated to be a maximum of $149 million for the 2012/13 season ($1.883 Billion minus $1.734 Billion (57% multiplied by $3.303 Billion minus 50% multiplied by $3.468 Billion). Similarly, utilizing that formula and our 5% growth projections, the "make whole" amount is calculated to be a maximum of $62 million for the 2013/14 season.

To accomplish the "make whole," each Players' pro-rata "make whole" will be determined for the first two years of the Agreement and will be paid to each Player as a Deferred Compensation benefit over the life of the Player's existing SPC. For those Players whose contracts expire after the 2012/13 season, the benefit will be paid when final HRR is determined for this season (in October/November 2013). Player "make whole" payments will be accrued and paid for by the League, and will be chargeable against Players' Share amounts in future years as Preliminary Benefits.

The "make whole" obligation will be operational only through the 2013/14 season because, beginning in Year 3, the projected growth in League-wide revenues should have resulted in an increase in absolute Players' Share dollars (in excess of the Players' Share of $1.883 Billion in 2011/12). This will effectively restore "full value" to all existing SPCs without any continuing need for a "make whole."

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11-02-2012, 05:45 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
Problem is Fehr and PA showed with there 3 proposals they have no desire to actually achieve 50/50 split as the owners want
oh come on. Same can be said about owners. If the players paid their own 'make whole', they would never see 50%.

Every post needs its own biased little spin.

Look at the last paragraph of the above post. League claims players are getting full value in Year 3. So if the league fronted the make whole, they will be at 50% in year 3.

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11-02-2012, 05:47 PM
  #56
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Can confirm NHL has offered to make players whole out of owners' share. But there are still some qualifiers...far from done.
https://twitter.com/JSportsnet/statu...98673545793537

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11-02-2012, 05:50 PM
  #57
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Far from done.... like that needed to be said. I'm sure everyone's jaded pessimism is getting a work out.

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11-02-2012, 05:53 PM
  #58
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The make whole was offered two weeks ago. Mathieu Schneider floated the idea of a "cap on escrow". 12% escrow is projected with the players going from 57% to 50%. The players lost 4% of their salaries in the 2005 CBA. The players are responsible for that 4% and the owners are responsible for the 8%. The owners get their 50%-50% split.

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11-02-2012, 05:55 PM
  #59
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So it's confirmed the "make whole" will be out if the owners' share? Or just a portion? This is either huge or an almost non-issue.

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11-02-2012, 06:35 PM
  #60
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Quote:
The NHL has communicated to the NHLPA a willingness to fund a healthy portion of the "Make Whole" provision to honor all existing contracts, a source close to the talks told ESPN.com.

In the meantime, talks are finally set to resume sometime over the next 3-4 days, a source told ESPN.com, although the time and place of the talks remain unclear
Quote:
In what appears to be a sign that the league is willing to be flexible in order to inch forward in what has been a labor stalemate over the past few weeks, a source said the league is willing to supply money to allow "Make Whole" to work for the players.

It would appear the league and the players would need to identify and agree on the amount and method of payment, and it would also be contingent on both sides coming to an agreement on numerous other elements in the framework of the rest of the proposal, such as player contract changes.
http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/85...ting-contracts

Players retain free agency and arbitration in the same form. 7 or 27. Arbitration after 4 years. Players give the owners contract limits. The owners want 2 year entry level contracts. Don't make that a sticking point.

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11-02-2012, 06:48 PM
  #61
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NHLPA don't have the details of the NHL concessions on the make whole provision.
https://twitter.com/RenLavoieRDS/sta...13603212812289

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11-02-2012, 06:50 PM
  #62
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There will be no NHL season. Just hope they don't leave the deadline for next year at the last minute.

Welcome to the Dark Ages.

Many speculated that the season would start on the Winter Classic. The fact that the NHL would simply cancel this multi-million dollar revenue generating event leads me to believe that there will be no season. They want the new CBA and Fehr and the PA are far too stubborn.

In addition to this, this is absolute balls for the Rangers. Their top players are veterans and as another season passes, another year Lundqvist is closer to retirement. The Rangers have wasted Lundqvist's prime years for mediocre, inept teams and the year he finally gets a decent team around him, the NHL locks itself out.


Last edited by Kershaw: 11-02-2012 at 06:57 PM.
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11-02-2012, 07:00 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Tortorella View Post
There will be no NHL season. Just hope they don't leave the deadline for next year at the last minute.

Welcome to the Dark Ages.

Many speculated that the season would start on the Winter Classic. The fact that the NHL would simply cancel this multi-million dollar revenue generating event leads me to believe that there will be no season. They want the new CBA and Fehr and the PA are far too stubborn.

In addition to this, this is absolute balls for the Rangers. Their top players are veterans and as another season passes, another year Lundqvist is closer to retirement. The Rangers have wasted Lundqvist's prime years for mediocre, inept teams and the year he finally gets a decent team around him, the NHL locks itself out.
Amazing, ain't it?

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11-02-2012, 07:13 PM
  #64
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Also can confirm tonight, in person meetings between the League and the PA will occur "in the next few days"
https://twitter.com/JSportsnet/statu...19805732794368

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11-02-2012, 07:13 PM
  #65
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Amazing, ain't it?
The Rangers will never have another goalie as good as Lundqvist. IMO.

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11-02-2012, 07:15 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tortorella View Post
There will be no NHL season. Just hope they don't leave the deadline for next year at the last minute.

Welcome to the Dark Ages.

Many speculated that the season would start on the Winter Classic. The fact that the NHL would simply cancel this multi-million dollar revenue generating event leads me to believe that there will be no season. They want the new CBA and Fehr and the PA are far too stubborn.

In addition to this, this is absolute balls for the Rangers. Their top players are veterans and as another season passes, another year Lundqvist is closer to retirement. The Rangers have wasted Lundqvist's prime years for mediocre, inept teams and the year he finally gets a decent team around him, the NHL locks itself out.
depressing

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Old
11-02-2012, 07:21 PM
  #67
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The Wings and Leafs didn't want to participate in the Winter Classic with the stain of the lockout. Brooks reported Illitch told Bettman to cancel the game.

Quote:
Itís about the legacy that Wings owner Mike Ilitch wanted to leave behind with this event. The Wings under his helm have been the model franchise in the NHL for two-plus decades. They had plans to raise the bar on an already through-the-roof event.

It was going to be the best Winter Classic ever.

Ilitch and the Wings want it done right, not hurriedly cobbled together a month from now when perhaps thereís a new CBA with zero opportunity to have promoted it since Sept. 15 when the lockout sucked the life out of the event.

While the Wings may never admit it publicly, Fridayís cancellation was likely a moment of relief. If the NHL is back next season in full form, its labor troubles behind it, there will be a game at the Big House between the Leafs and Red Wings, plus the kind of festival of events at Comerica that the Wings wanted all along.
http://espn.go.com/blog/nhl/post/_/i...winter-classic

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11-02-2012, 07:31 PM
  #68
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Winter Classic being canceled is common sense. A lot of its popularity comes from the buildup and advertisement put into it. That's not gonna be there.

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11-02-2012, 07:36 PM
  #69
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I also don't think the cancellation of the Winter Classic means the season is gone. In a weird way, I'm glad it was cancelled because I don't want to see the league reap the financial benefits that this game brings in.

Also, I'm sure this was posted already -- http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=408711 -- but this story does sound encouraging.

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11-02-2012, 08:52 PM
  #70
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Pierre LeBrun ‏@Real_ESPNLeBrun
Bill Daly and Steve Fehr are meeting Saturday in undisclosed location to resume bargaining talks

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11-02-2012, 09:19 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Ih8theislanders View Post
Pierre LeBrun ‏@Real_ESPNLeBrun
Bill Daly and Steve Fehr are meeting Saturday in undisclosed location to resume bargaining talks
Good... keep it as undisclosed as possible.

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11-02-2012, 09:30 PM
  #72
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"@RenLavoieRDS: The reason why the meeting is "secret" is to put the focus on talks and not on the message in front of the media."

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11-02-2012, 10:08 PM
  #73
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Per source, Bill Daly and Steve Fehr CBA meeting to take place tomorrow early in the afternoon. #TSN
aaronward_nhl 10:28pm via Twitter for iPhone

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11-02-2012, 10:11 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by Tortorella View Post
The Rangers will never have another goalie as good as Lundqvist. IMO.
Forever is a long, long time friend. The NHL has been around about 100 years. 500 from now?

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11-02-2012, 11:43 PM
  #75
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From Adrian Dater.

http://sulia.com/channel/hockey/f/24...source=twitter

Quote:
From a couple of high-level NHLPA people...
There has been NO formal offer made by the NHL on the so-called "make whole" giveback. Only informal discussions. Reports of a formal giveback offer are premature

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