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Petr Klíma or Petr Nedved ?

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Old
10-29-2012, 09:48 PM
  #76
Scimitars of Drizzt
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Originally Posted by MS View Post
Nedved was a fine talent who should have accomplished more than he did, but settled for being ‘good’ instead of ‘great’. With his hands and wristshot he should have scored 40 goals every year for a decade.

Just didn’t have the heart to be an elite player. A total Yashin-level mercenary who lost over two full years during the prime of his career to contract disputes. The defining moment of his career as a Canuck was asking for Wayne Gretzky’s stick/autograph after being upset by the Kings in 1993, in a series where Nedved completely no-showed.

Had one great season playing with Jagr/Francis/Lemieux in 1995-96 where he scored 99 points and 20 points in the playoffs. Other than that (and a motivated and outstanding 2000-01 season for the Rangers), his career was largely a disappointment – especially in the playoffs. 20 points in 52 games outside of that one good year.

It’s a testament to his talent that he can still dominate in the Czech league at age 41, but he should have been so much more. 717 points is not a spectacular total for a player of his ability who spent 17 years in the NHL.
You did put this pretty well. I actually like the fact that people refer to him as an underachiever, because it only shows how much better he should have been. He easily had the capability of being a point per game guy, but, like you said, lacking the heart to play was a big reason why he wasn't that and a 40+ goal scorer every year. But all that means is that Nedved was better than he performed.

Obviously it's disappointing that he was an underachiever, but any underachiever who puts up 717 points in 982 games is very impressive. It only means he had the talent to be a point per game guy.

I would also like to point out that his 99 point season wasn't always with Jagr/Lemieux/Francis. He played a considerable amount with Sandstrom and Smolinski.

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Old
10-30-2012, 01:00 AM
  #77
seventieslord
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One active Nedved-related thread is enough.

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Old
10-30-2012, 01:23 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Scimitars of Drizzt View Post
I'm almost certain he didn't play the whole season with Jagr and Francis. Like modern day, lines were juggled with, he never spent the whole season playing with the two same guys; you both are right. I can recall some games where he was with Lemieux.

Meanwhile, I would also like to point out that although playing with elite linemates will make your game better- it doesn't necessarily mean that playing with these elite linemates are the reason why your numbers are so good. Although in Nedved's case, having Jagr and Francis as linemates definitely did help. Some players just simply don't have the talent to keep up with the more elite players. You could put Richard Park on a line with Jagr and Lemieux- it doesn't mean he's going to put up great numbers.
Going to the box scores, here are the forwards that Nedved collaborated with in scoring even strength points in 1995-96.

1995-96 71
Jaromir Jagr 44
Ron Francis 19
Glen Murray 9
Markus Naslund 4
Bryan Smolinski 4
Mario Lemieux 4
Richard Park 3
Tomas Sandstrom 3

Jagr was in on 44 of Nedved's 71 even strength points, or 62%. Given that Henrik and Daniel Sedin max out at about 80% on each other's points, it looks like Nedved was pretty close to full-time with Jagr at even strength, also getting some time with Murray, Smolinski, Sandstrom, and others.

(Jagr and Francis went together on 44 ES points as well, meaning that Jagr and Francis often worked together, as did Jagr and Nedved, but Francis-Nedved was much less common. Possibly because one of them would occasionally play on other lines and Jagr was the constant, and also because Jagr was the offensive catalyst for the line.)

Nedved wasn't on Pittsburgh's first unit PP for most of 1995-96 (Lemieux, Jagr, Sandstrom, Francis, Zubov) so he probably played with Smolinski, Naslund and others on the PP.

Nedved's 1996-97 season was one where he really did play all over the place at ES.

1996-97 40
Jaromir Jagr 7
Mario Lemieux 7
Tomas Sandstrom 7
Ed Olczyk 5
Ron Francis 5
Joe Mullen 4
Alex Hicks 3
Joe Dziedzic 3
Alek Stojanov 3
Glen Murray 2
Stu Barnes 2
Josef Beranek 2
Andreas Johansson 2

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Old
10-30-2012, 01:40 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Scimitars of Drizzt View Post
Like many great hockey stars, it simply took him a year or two to adjust to the NHL. Not everyone pulls a Selanne and scores 76 in a rookie season.

Do you not recall Nedved's season with the Canucks where he scored 38 goals and had 71 points?
No, I don't think many expected him to "pull a Selanne"...but no one expected him to hold out before his first contract either. Perhaps the only person who had "Selanne like expectations" was Nedved himself (or at least that appears to be how he and his "agent/ babysitter Tony Kondel tried to portray his value before he ever played an NHL game).

Now the 38 goal season that you seem to think so highly of (as I did too)...that was also the same season that Nedved scored 2 goals in 12 playoff games, and then topped that off by chasing Gretzky around the ice begging for his stick after a disappointing playoff ouster. While all the real players were heartbroken over being eliminated, Nedved celebrated his new stick. I can only wonder what the Great One thought of Nedved asking for his stick after what you would think would be one of the most disappointing moments in his hockey career???

So let's get this straight about Nedved...
He held out for his first contract, before ever playing a game of pro hockey.
He gets his money, and puts up back to back seasons of a combined 26 goals (1 in the playoffs) and a -24 rating on a pretty good Canucks team...

But the Nucks and their fans suck it up.
He scores 38 goals in his third season (before once again disappearing in the playoffs, not to mention the embarrassment of chasing after Gretzkys autograph) and then has the nuts to hold out once again???

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10-30-2012, 09:40 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Taco MacArthur View Post
Always liked Petr's game - and was surprised when he didn't get more out of his skill set.
With the thread merge, my post is now ambiguous, so I'll clarify - I was a huge Petr Nedved fan. One of my favorite Thunderbirds of all time.

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10-30-2012, 09:52 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by IComeInPeace View Post
He scores 38 goals in his third season (before once again disappearing in the playoffs, not to mention the embarrassment of chasing after Gretzkys autograph) and then has the nuts to hold out once again???
Did he get his money then?

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10-30-2012, 01:19 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by begbeee View Post
Did he get his money then?
He held out for most of the yr, as the Nucks refused to deal with him and his agent playing hardball twice in only 3 years...
The Blues presented him an offer sheet. The Cnucks asked for Shanahan as compensation, Blues offered Janney. An arbitrator awarded JNney, but the Nucks traded Janney back to the Blues for players (Jeff Brown and Hedican primarily) that helped us get to the Cup finals.

The thing with his holdouts was that he hired his billet to be his agent. I believe his name was Tony Kondel. He had zero previous experience as an agent. But he was an ex-Czech himself, and apparently that qualified him to be Nedveds agent. As much as I would like to blame it on Kondel, the contract holdouts did not end with his two holdouts in three years with the Nucks. I believe that is a pattern that would continue throughout his NHLcareer.

He held out for over a yr with the Pens (when you factored in the money lost by not playing, he lost money when he finally re-signed. I believe there was also another difficult negotiation with the Rangers at some point as well.


Last edited by IComeInPeace: 10-30-2012 at 01:33 PM.
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Old
10-30-2012, 05:58 PM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IComeInPeace View Post
No, I don't think many expected him to "pull a Selanne"...but no one expected him to hold out before his first contract either. Perhaps the only person who had "Selanne like expectations" was Nedved himself (or at least that appears to be how he and his "agent/ babysitter Tony Kondel tried to portray his value before he ever played an NHL game).

Now the 38 goal season that you seem to think so highly of (as I did too)...that was also the same season that Nedved scored 2 goals in 12 playoff games, and then topped that off by chasing Gretzky around the ice begging for his stick after a disappointing playoff ouster. While all the real players were heartbroken over being eliminated, Nedved celebrated his new stick. I can only wonder what the Great One thought of Nedved asking for his stick after what you would think would be one of the most disappointing moments in his hockey career???

So let's get this straight about Nedved...
He held out for his first contract, before ever playing a game of pro hockey.
He gets his money, and puts up back to back seasons of a combined 26 goals (1 in the playoffs) and a -24 rating on a pretty good Canucks team...

But the Nucks and their fans suck it up.
He scores 38 goals in his third season (before once again disappearing in the playoffs, not to mention the embarrassment of chasing after Gretzkys autograph) and then has the nuts to hold out once again???

I love how you mention that he chased him around the ice begging-because that's not how it happened. But yeah it was a disappointing playoffs for him. Many players have had disappointing playoff performances. It seems to have really bothered you which is too bad. I hope you someday get over it.

As for him asking for the stick (while they lined up to shake hands)
so what? Gretzky was his idol growing up it was a once in a lifetime opportunity. Not everyone is perfect. Haha, well it obviously bothered you, I don't even care that he asked him for the stick.

Obviously you really hate Nedved which is too bad. You haven't even made the tiniest imprint on my opinion on Nedved, you've told me nothing that I didn't already know. You've just re-stated a lot that has already been mentioned in this thread, while exaggerating on certain events all the while.

Nedved was a great player, with great talent. Always will love the guy

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Old
10-30-2012, 08:39 PM
  #84
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Klima--he helped the oilers win the cup and

When I lived in Vancouver Nedved was a semi regular as the bar I worked at and he had the wrong people around him

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10-31-2012, 02:34 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by jumptheshark View Post
Klima--he helped the oilers win the cup and

When I lived in Vancouver Nedved was a semi regular as the bar I worked at and he had the wrong people around him
That's great, but...... let's talk about who was the better hockey player, eh?

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11-02-2012, 11:26 PM
  #86
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Nedved.

Could not stand Klima's helmet!

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