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1st line right wing for Canucks (DISSCUSION)

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Old
11-01-2012, 03:15 PM
  #226
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Originally Posted by TLinden16 View Post
But the team is a playoff-team, with or without a Top 6 winger. If the market is bad for the Canuck's tradeable, I'd rather see Gillis go into the season as is then take a low-ball offer from a team.

Kulemin adds little. It would just mean another 2nd/3rd line wing spot that isn't locked down due to inconsistent play (Higgins/Booth/Kulemin/Hansen/Raymond... pass).

Holding onto Luongo/assets could be the smartest move. A team could have a starting goalie go down, Lindback could be a total and utter flop as a #1, Washington's goalie carousel could flop (doubtful.. but still possible), Bryz could not come back from Russia. A current Top 6 RW could be supplanted by youth on his team.

Patience is virtue. Nothing is hurt by going into the first couple months of the season with the current roster, it's virtually unchanged from the Stanley Cup Finals lineup. It's + Garrison, Kassian, and some seasoning of youth (Hansen, Edler, Schneider).

The sky is falling attitude will be the one that brings Bozak, and a pick back for Luongo.
In premise, yeah. Holding onto assets until they are at their peak value (deadline) is ideal. There are problems with that view in an absolute sense though.

First, the market for him is small. While waiting does in fact increase value, you seem to be ignoring that competition and market demand also determines value. You can't trade him in a vacuum.

If two of the teams interested in Luongo find something else prior to the season starting, what will that do to his value at the deadline? With his contract, Luongo is not a rental. There is a certain mold of team interested in him.

Appealing to their needs is what is in out best interest. The consumer determines market value, never forget that. The seller simply adjusts his value to reflect what the consumer is saying.

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11-01-2012, 03:32 PM
  #227
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Originally Posted by Minimalist View Post
Appealing to their needs is what is in out best interest. The consumer determines market value, never forget that. The seller simply adjusts his value to reflect what the consumer is saying.
Luongo isn't a car sitting on a lot, he has value to the seller while waiting for a deal.

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11-01-2012, 03:43 PM
  #228
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Originally Posted by Minimalist View Post
In premise, yeah. Holding onto assets until they are at their peak value (deadline) is ideal. There are problems with that view in an absolute sense though.

First, the market for him is small. While waiting does in fact increase value, you seem to be ignoring that competition and market demand also determines value. You can't trade him in a vacuum.

If two of the teams interested in Luongo find something else prior to the season starting, what will that do to his value at the deadline? With his contract, Luongo is not a rental. There is a certain mold of team interested in him.

Appealing to their needs is what is in out best interest. The consumer determines market value, never forget that. The seller simply adjusts his value to reflect what the consumer is saying.
Who though?

Bernier? Scott Clemmensen? Jose Theodore? The fact of the matter is that there are not many starting goalies on the market. They're either

1) 1b/#2 calibre (Clemmensen/Theo)
or
2) Completely unproven at the NHL level.

As the season unfolds it very well could be true that Luongo's value doesn't increase drastically, but the risk of not moving Luongo is...? You roll 2 starting calibre goalies.

I'd feel more confident in the current roster w/ Luongo splitting starts with Schneider, then a Schneider/Lack combo and Tyler ****ing Bozak on the 3rd line to make up for it.

The Canucks need a Top 6 winger. If Luongo isn't bringing one back or other substantial pieces prior to season start... you don't move him until the opportunity arises. That's my mindset and it seems to be Gillis' too as I'm sure he had chances in August/Sept to move him for piss-poor offers from TO.

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11-01-2012, 03:51 PM
  #229
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Originally Posted by TLinden16 View Post
Who though?

Bernier? Scott Clemmensen? Jose Theodore? The fact of the matter is that there are not many starting goalies on the market. They're either

1) 1b/#2 calibre (Clemmensen/Theo)
or
2) Completely unproven at the NHL level.

As the season unfolds it very well could be true that Luongo's value doesn't increase drastically, but the risk of not moving Luongo is...? You roll 2 starting calibre goalies.

I'd feel more confident in the current roster w/ Luongo splitting starts with Schneider, then a Schneider/Lack combo and Tyler ****ing Bozak on the 3rd line to make up for it.

The Canucks need a Top 6 winger. If Luongo isn't bringing one back or other substantial pieces prior to season start... you don't move him until the opportunity arises. That's my mindset and it seems to be Gillis' too as I'm sure he had chances in August/Sept to move him for piss-poor offers from TO.
I agree with this in its entirety.

I have tried to work out trades with Toronto fans, mostly in good fun, but I maintain that for the reason in the last paragraph is why a trade won't be worked out with Toronto. We need an improvement in our top six more then any other piece, including, I'd argue, prospects.

I know Kessel is out and JVR is, at best, a longshot, and everything else...just doesn't do it. We improve our 5/6 dman, get a temp 2nd line forward to be relegated to the 3rd line, and a prospect that won't displace our top three on our depth chart with the best offers Leafs fans have given. That's not enough for me. Yes, I want the moon, sun and stars for the guy.

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11-01-2012, 06:10 PM
  #230
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JVR would be a great piece but I don't see TO giving him up right after trading for him. Looking at both what we need now (If play starts) OR what we would need (In the event of a lost season) TO just doesn't have much appeal aside from JVR (Pass on Kessel and Lupul) and Gardiner the leafs don have much of value, and since they don't want to move those pieces I'd pass unless multiple picks and prospects come the other way.

SJS, Chicago and Florida all have pieces for a better return. Let Brian Burke sign Roloson or Turco to "mentor Reimer".

We won't get a Kings ransom for Luongo but maybe a Prince/Dukes random is more realistic

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11-02-2012, 09:05 AM
  #231
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Kassian + 1st for Vanek

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11-02-2012, 11:56 AM
  #232
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Kassian + 1st for Vanek
Buffalo laughs and passes EASILY, also LW and is a UFA after 2013-2014. We'd be better off going after Perry.


I'd love to see Blake Wheeler with Kesler. What would Jets fans want to see for him?


Last edited by Seatoo: 11-02-2012 at 12:03 PM.
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11-02-2012, 04:04 PM
  #233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seatoo View Post
Buffalo laughs and passes EASILY, also LW and is a UFA after 2013-2014. We'd be better off going after Perry.


I'd love to see Blake Wheeler with Kesler. What would Jets fans want to see for him?
Vanek plays either wing, and Buffalo doesn't laugh because of the reasons you just stated. Of course you'd be better off with Perry, he's better. That said, Buffalo's under-23 roster if we re-acquired Kassian would be down right scary.

Myers, Ennis, Hodgson, Foligno, Kassian, Arima, Grigorenko, Girgensons, Pysyk, McNabb, Tropp. I like the look of that group going forward.

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11-02-2012, 07:36 PM
  #234
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Originally Posted by Seatoo View Post
Buffalo laughs and passes EASILY, also LW and is a UFA after 2013-2014. We'd be better off going after Perry.


I'd love to see Blake Wheeler with Kesler. What would Jets fans want to see for him?
That's probably a question you don't want to ask lol. He's one of our best forwards, having finally figured out that at 6'5" and with his speed he can knock people around, he's just coming into his prime. Outside of Kane, he's the closest thing we have to a first line player, and we're all looking forward to seeing those two finally match up.

You'd have an easier time getting Kane from us tbh, although we did just resign him.

Either way, from our perspective, Wheeler is very valuable. We just got the team back and we all have a huge man crush on him right now. Our top six looks a lot less impressive without him.

Kane however probably starts with Hamhuis. Like I said...he's valuable. He scored 30g at 20 on our second line playing with well wood and burmistrov. Think of why he could do with Kes and Booth or the Sedins?

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11-02-2012, 08:51 PM
  #235
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Originally Posted by sully1410 View Post

Kane however probably starts with Hamhuis. Like I said...he's valuable. He scored 30g at 20 on our second line playing with well wood and burmistrov. Think of why he could do with Kes and Booth or the Sedins?
The value is probably there, but our D core depends on Hamhuis, Edler is much more expendable imo and if we could sign an extension he could be a valuable piece.

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11-02-2012, 09:16 PM
  #236
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The value is probably there, but our D core depends on Hamhuis, Edler is much more expendable imo and if we could sign an extension he could be a valuable piece.
He'd be pretty redundant with all the puck movers we have. We really need a shutdown guy with physicality like Hamhuis. I totally get that the Canucks do depend on him though. If either Kane or Wheeler were to be traded, I'd want it to be to the Canucks.

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11-02-2012, 10:46 PM
  #237
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He'd be pretty redundant with all the puck movers we have. We really need a shutdown guy with physicality like Hamhuis. I totally get that the Canucks do depend on him though. If either Kane or Wheeler were to be traded, I'd want it to be to the Canucks.
I just don't think we have the pieces (that wont completely mess up our team) to get Kane/Wheeler

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11-02-2012, 11:32 PM
  #238
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Just need to wait for July 1 2013 and as long as Edler gets resigned @ or around 5m we should go after Wheeler! Or Ryder!

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11-03-2012, 02:04 AM
  #239
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JVR would be a great piece but I don't see TO giving him up right after trading for him. Looking at both what we need now (If play starts) OR what we would need (In the event of a lost season) TO just doesn't have much appeal aside from JVR (Pass on Kessel and Lupul) and Gardiner the leafs don have much of value, and since they don't want to move those pieces I'd pass unless multiple picks and prospects come the other way.

SJS, Chicago and Florida all have pieces for a better return. Let Brian Burke sign Roloson or Turco to "mentor Reimer".

We won't get a Kings ransom for Luongo but maybe a Prince/Dukes random is more realistic
You would pass.....on KESSEL.......for Luongo?

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11-03-2012, 02:16 AM
  #240
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You would pass.....on KESSEL.......for Luongo?
Wrong type of forward I think he means. We need either a mean 20-30 scorer, or an elite playmaker. Kessel's a scorer, a shoot first player.

I'd be all over that though, but he and JVR are the only two players I'd want any part of a one for one deal...And no, I'm not saying Toronto should be on that.

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11-03-2012, 02:38 AM
  #241
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And actually, call me nuts, but is Ryan still on the block?

Jensen, Schroeder, Lack and a pick?

Fewer futures? More single pieces?

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11-03-2012, 03:01 AM
  #242
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And actually, call me nuts, but is Ryan still on the block?

Jensen, Schroeder, Lack and a pick?

Fewer futures? More single pieces?
that's quality for quantity, can't see it being appealing because of that

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11-03-2012, 12:04 PM
  #243
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that's quality for quantity, can't see it being appealing because of that
Something in the Edler range for Ryan or Perry would be better, but I'd be hardpressed to give him up, as I'm sure Ducks fans would be hard pressed to give up such a winger.

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11-03-2012, 01:06 PM
  #244
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You would pass.....on KESSEL.......for Luongo?
Bad attitude (well documented), soft on the puck, poor defensively and is a shoot first pass later type player of which we have to many of already.

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11-03-2012, 01:11 PM
  #245
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Just need to wait for July 1 2013 and as long as Edler gets resigned @ or around 5m we should go after Wheeler! Or Ryder!
Wheeler is an RFA, but Ryder would be awesome. Best glove hand in the league.

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11-03-2012, 01:25 PM
  #246
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seatoo View Post
Bad attitude (well documented), soft on the puck, poor defensively and is a shoot first pass later type player of which we have to many of already.


LMAOOO alrighy than

imagine we ever thought about giving kessel in a deal for lou

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11-03-2012, 01:29 PM
  #247
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LMAOOO alrighy than

imagine we ever thought about giving kessel in a deal for lou
I don't know how you don't take that. Granted there are other pieces in the world I would prefer to Kessel, that's a super awesome good return for Luongo.

You could put PK on the first line with the Sedins and slide Burrows back to the second line.

It's not like the Sedins play defensively anyways.

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11-03-2012, 01:41 PM
  #248
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No to Kessel? are you guys mad? You know he could just be traded for peices we actually need, right? He is a great asset.

obviously this would never happen.

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11-03-2012, 03:38 PM
  #249
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Sully and Poolchamp sum up my thoughts exactly. Kessel for Luongo is a no brainer for the Canucks.

Defensive play is something that can be taught, but that's not what makes him valuable.

His attitude problems are something that coaching, the right environment and the right team can help correct (also I personally think that those are problems are over blown).

If Kessel was on the block for Luongo, the deal would be done, and we wouldn't have a 40ish thread legacy of Leafs and Canucks fans bickering.

He might not be ideal, but as we keep telling Leafs fans, he'd be the best available top line winger out there now.

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11-03-2012, 04:12 PM
  #250
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It's best that Canucks fans get the idea of Luongo for Kessel out of their head because there is no way that would happen. Who would Toronto have left? Lupul? Van Reimsdyk? Decent players but not by any means game breakers. Without Kessel, the leafs are worse offensively than Columbus, for Pesci's sake.

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