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Make Whole, Not War (CBA & Lockout Discussion) XIX

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Old
11-02-2012, 11:28 PM
  #226
Mike Jones
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Originally Posted by kfan22 View Post
And it is odd at an undisclosed location
Um - on That's Hockey today they played a series of fan opinions on what they think of this lockout. That may explain the secret location...

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11-02-2012, 11:30 PM
  #227
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so why arent Bettman and D Fehr going to be at the meeting also??
If I remember previous negotiations they're seen as being the "closers".

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11-02-2012, 11:31 PM
  #228
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Originally Posted by Mike Jones View Post
If I remember previous negotiations they're seen as being the "closers".
Daly and S.Fehr or Bettman and D.Fehr?

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11-02-2012, 11:31 PM
  #229
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Originally Posted by CBJBrassard16 View Post
Daly and S.Fehr or Bettman and D.Fehr?
Don & Gary

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11-02-2012, 11:34 PM
  #230
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In before Don Fehr spins this development into something negative again for the players' consumption.

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11-02-2012, 11:35 PM
  #231
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Originally Posted by CBJBrassard16 View Post
David Shoalts ‏@dshoalts

The NHLPA is not as excited as the owners about the latest sign talks could start again

David Shoalts ‏@dshoalts

However, NHLPA also takes position NHL has to explain concession much more before bargaining can resume. More at http://globesports.com .
It seems like they are only meeting grudgingly because the players pressed them to get back to the table in the last conference call.

But they really have no interest in it and will just find some excuse to go back to the players and say they cant negotiate because the League said this or that .

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11-02-2012, 11:35 PM
  #232
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Originally Posted by CBJBrassard16 View Post
Daly and S.Fehr or Bettman and D.Fehr?
Sorry - Bettman and D. Fehr. I don't know why but it's in Gatehouse's book. It's probably different in other unions.

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11-02-2012, 11:36 PM
  #233
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The NHL spit on the last trio of NhLpA offers, so it only makes sense that the PA would be coy. *****ez

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11-02-2012, 11:40 PM
  #234
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Originally Posted by pepty View Post
It seems like they are only meeting grudgingly because the players pressed them to get back to the table in the last conference call.

But they really have no interest in it and will just find some excuse to go back to the players and say they cant negotiate because the League said this or that .
I get that sense as well. I think Fehr is a real problem and is going to destroy the league. He's too wrapped up in his own reputation and could care less about the players or the league he is helping to hurt.

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11-02-2012, 11:43 PM
  #235
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Only the NHL can hold meetings to negotiate how negotiations will take place.

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11-02-2012, 11:43 PM
  #236
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I get that sense as well. I think Fehr is a real problem and is going to destroy the league. He's too wrapped up in his own reputation and could care less about the players or the league he is helping to hurt.
Well I am hoping the players keep a more close eye on things and keep pressing for a deal if they start stalling for no reason.

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11-02-2012, 11:56 PM
  #237
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Not only that, but it's the same deal except the leaguek offers to absorb a negotiable amount of the make-whole. Why don't they just come back to the table to hear about it?

Of course they won't, because that would mean accepting the linked framework, which they've shown no sign of being willing to do so far.

Meh, I'm less excited now, unless the membership put significant pressure on Fehr in that conference call.
Today on the Rona Round table on TSN 1290 Shane Hnidy said a source he has told him that three of the player reps spoke up in the meeting and said the players on their respective teams wanted to get back to the table and negociate. Now that is hardly a pressure play but just like those old painful junior high dances when the first kid takes the walk across the gym to ask a girl to dance usually the rest of the pack aren't too far behind. as far as I know when Hnidy made these comments I don't know if the players even had knowledge of the new proposal?

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11-03-2012, 12:03 AM
  #238
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Originally Posted by ps241 View Post
Today on the Rona Round table on TSN 1290 Shane Hnidy said a source he has told him that three of the player reps spoke up in the meeting and said the players on their respective teams wanted to get back to the table and negociate. Now that is hardly a pressure play but just like those old painful junior high dances when the first kid takes the walk across the gym to ask a girl to dance usually the rest of the pack aren't too far behind. as far as I know when Hnidy made these comments I don't know if the players even had knowledge of the new proposal?
My hunch is that Don Fehr's evil plan may not unfold as he has forseen.

If that's true, then good.

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11-03-2012, 12:06 AM
  #239
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mossey3535 View Post
Not only that, but it's the same deal except the leaguek offers to absorb a negotiable amount of the make-whole. Why don't they just come back to the table to hear about it?

Of course they won't, because that would mean accepting the linked framework, which they've shown no sign of being willing to do so far.

Meh, I'm less excited now, unless the membership put significant pressure on Fehr in that conference call.
Today on the Rona Round table on TSN 1290 Shane Hnidy said a source he has told him that three of the player reps spoke up in the meeting and said the players on their respective teams wanted to get back to the table and negociate. Now that is hardly a pressure play but just like those old painful junior high dances when the first kid takes the walk across the gym to ask a girl to dance usually the rest of the pack aren't too far behind. as far as I know when Hnidy made these comments I don't know if the players even had knowledge of the new proposal?
It's doesn't seem that very many of them know about it. Now that could be a logistical issue as it was a verbal offer, but it seems like Fehr has his own agenda here and I hope the players get sick of this and force his hand into attempting to negotiate off of this.

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11-03-2012, 12:39 AM
  #240
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My inkling is that many of the players had the thought that Bettman would have broken for the Winter Classic, the fact that the League cancelled it will signal to the PA that the league is playing a game of hardball.

The players are playing a game of hardball as well, it was Goodenow's plan [mod: hope you have a link for this] that the players should hold out for 2 years. We all now how that went, but now that Fehr is at the helm, does he think he can repeat the same method of 2004 and expect a different result?


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11-03-2012, 12:41 AM
  #241
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Today on the Rona Round table on TSN 1290 Shane Hnidy said a source he has told him that three of the player reps spoke up in the meeting and said the players on their respective teams wanted to get back to the table and negociate. Now that is hardly a pressure play but just like those old painful junior high dances when the first kid takes the walk across the gym to ask a girl to dance usually the rest of the pack aren't too far behind. as far as I know when Hnidy made these comments I don't know if the players even had knowledge of the new proposal?
All they have to do, collectively, is tell Fehr they'll accept the NHL's deal.

This seems rather simplistic, to say, "Hey get back to the table" when the player group isn't willing to take the Make Whole + other matters on the table. What will they negotiate? Hey, Gary, so how about the owners do a soft landing. Gary: No. We want 50% now, and the other stuff.

And if every guy is going to negotiate his own deal, they might as well decertify right now.

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Old
11-03-2012, 12:44 AM
  #242
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I think Fehr is a real problem and is going to destroy the league. He's too wrapped up in his own reputation and could care less about the players or the league he is helping to hurt.
I have an idea. Perhaps one of the mods could send out invites to Bettman and Fehr to sign up for HF accounts. Then every time a post with as little content as the one quoted above can be flagged as a personal attack, and mods can deal with the perp as per the usual site policies.

And then, finally, perhaps we could get out from under the tsunami of useless drek that is drowning and killing the BoH forum, and have something resembling substantive discussions.

 
Old
11-03-2012, 12:49 AM
  #243
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Originally Posted by dougieg93 View Post
My inkling is that many of the players had the thought that Bettman would have broken for the Winter Classic, the fact that the League cancelled it will signal to the PA that the league is playing a game of hardball.

The players are playing a game of hardball as well, it was Goodenow's plan [mod: hope you have a link for this] that the players should hold out for 2 years. We all now how that went, but now that Fehr is at the helm, does he think he can repeat the same method of 2004 and expect a different result?

Because he's not Goodenow and the NHL teams may not be as desperate? Maybe some of them have figured out that their system wasn't the panacea they though. Some might even decide to use people who know how to use calculators and not just let some lawyers design economic systems.

Wishful thinking on my part.

I just don't get how so many people just keep repeating this stuff though. Because the NHL made a proposal, the only thing for a PA to do is sign as-is. If they squawk, they're greedy, not the owners who want more profit for themselves. The old CBA doesn't count as a starting point if we're talking concessions and percentage share, but it does count if we're talking about caps and linkage.


My head hurts.

Quote:
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I have an idea. Perhaps one of the mods could send out invites to Bettman and Fehr to sign up for HF accounts. Then every time a post with as little content as the one quoted above can be flagged as a personal attack, and mods can deal with the perp as per the usual site policies.

And then, finally, perhaps we could get out from under the tsunami of useless drek that is drowning and killing the BoH forum, and have something resembling substantive discussions.

At this point, I'd pay them out of my own funds to join. It's like Chinese Water Torture in here.....

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11-03-2012, 12:52 AM
  #244
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Darren Dreger ‏@DarrenDreger
As we just discussed on Sportscentre. NHL advised PA it will absorb share of Make Whole provision. This is a considerable concession.
Remember when Bettman said there was some wiggle room with the "make whole" provision? Just think, if Fehr had countered with this, we'd be playing hockey. Instead the league's making offers to Fehr that he should be making to them.

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11-03-2012, 12:57 AM
  #245
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Remember when Bettman said there was some wiggle room with the "make whole" provision? Just think, if Fehr had countered with this, we'd be playing hockey. Instead the league's making offers to Fehr that he should be making to them.

Yeah, right.

It's just about about a little wiggle here and a little wiggle there.

Are you guys reading this from a script?

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11-03-2012, 12:58 AM
  #246
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the fact that this offer was made public by the NHL and it was done the same day as the WC being cancelled leads me to believe it is a PR move only and the NHLPA will not accept it.

the real deal will eventually happen behind closed doors and announced to the public once it can be ratified.

until that happens I don't believe any of this BS.

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11-03-2012, 01:08 AM
  #247
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Yeah, right.

It's just about about a little wiggle here and a little wiggle there.

Are you guys reading this from a script?
What guys?

You tell me, the players' big rallying cry was wanting their contracts honored. The previous make whole provision, which was explicitly spelled out as negotiable, was something Fehr told the players was bad because it was "players paying players, not owner paying players." This solves that, too.

Are you saying it was more reasonable to show up 90 minutes late with two variations on a Bob Goodenow offer that was rejected in 2005 and a third that represented a percentage increase on present salaries that Fehr "didn't run the numbers on" is somehow more constructive than, I don't know, showing up on time with something like what Dreger describes?

Is that what this script you're talking about says?

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11-03-2012, 01:09 AM
  #248
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I have an idea. Perhaps one of the mods could send out invites to Bettman and Fehr to sign up for HF accounts. Then every time a post with as little content as the one quoted above can be flagged as a personal attack, and mods can deal with the perp as per the usual site policies.

And then, finally, perhaps we could get out from under the tsunami of useless drek that is drowning and killing the BoH forum, and have something resembling substantive discussions.
It's exactly the same thing that happened to the Luongo threads. Any meaningful discussion is drowned out in pointless and baseless attacks that go round and round endlessly. Close to 20K posts about the lockout and maybe a third of that is worthwhile.

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11-03-2012, 01:16 AM
  #249
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What guys?

You tell me, the players' big rallying cry was wanting their contracts honored. The previous make whole provision, which was explicitly spelled out as negotiable, was something Fehr told the players was bad because it was "players paying players, not owner paying players." This solves that, too.

Are you saying it was more reasonable to show up 90 minutes late with two variations on a Bob Goodenow offer that was rejected in 2005 and a third that represented a percentage increase on present salaries that Fehr "didn't run the numbers on" is somehow more constructive than, I don't know, showing up on time with something like what Dreger describes?

Is that what this script you're talking about says?

The sockpuppets know who they are.

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11-03-2012, 01:28 AM
  #250
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Yeah, right.

It's just about about a little wiggle here and a little wiggle there.

Are you guys reading this from a script?
and that is how union negotiations are solved. Why do you continue to question what people are reading into these negotiations? Do you have information that contradicts any talks between the NHL/NHLPA?

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