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Old
11-03-2012, 12:12 AM
  #101
DirtyDion03
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Originally Posted by diceman934 View Post
Everyone knows that a concussed player who also got a Limited NTC and signed for 3.875 million is under paid......

I dislike the extension.
So you dislike the extension given to Crosby too? Or Giroux? Cause they've both had concussions plus hundreds of other NHL players. Liles is fine. And again, I showed you examples of defensemen who got bigger contracts then Liles and have produced less then Liles has, but you continue to ignore these facts.

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11-03-2012, 12:31 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by JMcLeaf View Post
Jake Gardiner, Joffrey Lupul and a conditional fourth-round draft pick in 2013 for Francois Beauchemin
/thread

If we are talking recent trades anyway.

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11-03-2012, 12:51 AM
  #103
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Fact is the majority of players in the league have a concussion history.
I'd be hesitant to say majority, but yeah, it's depressing how many guys have a history of concussions. We really need to be working on adapting better helmets :/

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11-03-2012, 12:53 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by 7even View Post
I'd be hesitant to say majority, but yeah, it's depressing how many guys have a history of concussions. We really need to be working on adapting better helmets :/
It's not the helmets that are the problem. It's the shoulder equipment and the lack of respect in the game. Hate to say it but Grapes saw it coming along time ago. Head shots were not as serious or as big of a problem before helmets. Now people have lost all respect because they see the helmet.

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11-03-2012, 02:37 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by diceman934 View Post
Liles took no pay cut at all.....please provide a link....that shows this.
I already showed you a link that suggests this. It is also a well known fact, supported by his previous contract and the contract of countless similar or inferior players on the free agent market.

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Komi is over paid....or do you feel that we are getting value for money?
You once again seem to be confusing now for 3 years ago.

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Aulie was horrible.....when?
This past year, when he was traded as a strength for a weakness.

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Kadri over Lambo and Connelly....in a heart beat.
And you would be wrong.

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You are right Franson was benched by Wilson....but Burke allowed this asset to be devalued by his coach.
Once again, he was the 6TH DEFENSEMAN. Burke, and essentially all GMs let the coaches do the coaching. Franson is not devalued in anybody's eyes except deluded HF posters.

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11-03-2012, 09:04 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Whydidijoin View Post


Once again, he was the 6TH DEFENSEMAN. Burke, and essentially all GMs let the coaches do the coaching. Franson is not devalued in anybody's eyes except deluded HF posters.
That doesn't explain why Burke would take on a horrible contract like Matthew Lombardi just to acquire a 6th defenseman to sit in the press box half the time. Another boneheaded move by a boneheaded GM.

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11-03-2012, 09:48 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Whydidijoin View Post
I already showed you a link that suggests this. It is also a well known fact, supported by his previous contract and the contract of countless similar or inferior players on the free agent market.


You once again seem to be confusing now for 3 years ago.


This past year, when he was traded as a strength for a weakness.


And you would be wrong.


Once again, he was the 6TH DEFENSEMAN. Burke, and essentially all GMs let the coaches do the coaching. Franson is not devalued in anybody's eyes except deluded HF posters.
He was valued the year previous by a much better coach and team and arguably on the NHL's best defense.

Why was he ok to have a bigger role on Nashville but not Toronto

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11-03-2012, 09:48 AM
  #108
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That doesn't explain why Burke would take on a horrible contract like Matthew Lombardi just to acquire a 6th defenseman to sit in the press box half the time. Another boneheaded move by a boneheaded GM.
Because he has the potential to be more than a bottom-pairing defenseman, and probably already is if we didn't have so much defensive depth. And he played 70% of the season.

Lombardi does not harm us in any way, and may actually provide a benefit when all is said and done. Franson is an asset with value.

Acquiring assets for free is never a bad move.

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11-03-2012, 09:51 AM
  #109
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That doesn't explain why Burke would take on a horrible contract like Matthew Lombardi just to acquire a 6th defenseman to sit in the press box half the time. Another boneheaded move by a boneheaded GM.
Burke acquired a 23 year-old D-Man who had 29 points in limited offensive time on the NHL's best defense. Franson played well in Nashville. You're writing him-of due to Wilson's handling of him.

Barry Trotz thought more highly of him.

And who cares about Lombardi? We don't need the cap room. It isn't hurting us.

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11-03-2012, 09:53 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
He was valued the year previous by a much better coach and team and arguably on the NHL's best defense.

Why was he ok to have a bigger role on Nashville but not Toronto
He was bottom-pairing on Nashville too...

Nashville's defense is top-heavy. Toronto's defense is depth-heavy. Depth-heavy (and a relatively injury-free year for our defense) makes it harder for a player like Franson to get playing time.

That doesn't mean he isn't good. That doesn't mean he doesn't have value. That doesn't mean that this player who has only been in the league for 3 years can't get even better.

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11-03-2012, 10:24 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
Burke acquired a 23 year-old D-Man who had 29 points in limited offensive time on the NHL's best defense. Franson played well in Nashville. You're writing him-of due to Wilson's handling of him.

Barry Trotz thought more highly of him.

And who cares about Lombardi? We don't need the cap room. It isn't hurting us.
A lot of Leaf fans wrote off Schenn because of his handling by Wilson.

If Schenn were in Nashville getting guidance by Trotz he would be a much different player today.

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Old
11-03-2012, 10:26 AM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Mess View Post
A lot of Leaf fans wrote off Schenn because of his handling by Wilson.

If Schenn were in Nashville getting guidance by Trotz he would be a much different player today.
Nah...with Schenn...it was because he sucked. With other guys like Franson, he was mishandled. So much hypocrisy on these boards. Laughable.

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11-03-2012, 10:28 AM
  #113
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Nah...with Schenn...it was because he sucked. With other guys like Franson, he was mishandled. So much hypocrisy on these boards. Laughable.
Answer the question. Why did Barry Trotz and a much better Nashville team think more highly of Franson? Barry Trotz didn't put Franson in the press box.

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11-03-2012, 10:29 AM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Whydidijoin View Post
He was bottom-pairing on Nashville too...

Nashville's defense is top-heavy. Toronto's defense is depth-heavy. Depth-heavy (and a relatively injury-free year for our defense) makes it harder for a player like Franson to get playing time.

That doesn't mean he isn't good. That doesn't mean he doesn't have value. That doesn't mean that this player who has only been in the league for 3 years can't get even better.
Bigger role though on the NHl's be defense. And TRotz played him everynight.

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11-03-2012, 10:30 AM
  #115
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Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
Burke acquired a 23 year-old D-Man who had 29 points in limited offensive time on the NHL's best defense. Franson played well in Nashville. You're writing him-of due to Wilson's handling of him.

Barry Trotz thought more highly of him.

And who cares about Lombardi? We don't need the cap room. It isn't hurting us.
Who cares about Connolly..who cares about Komi, who cares about Armie, who cares about Lombardi, who cares about Steckel, who cares about Wallin, Gustavsson, Who cares about Exelby and Bozak, who cares about Orr or MacArthur....who cares.

The list of players that have gone through the turnstiles and continue to do so....who cares. Who cares about Brian Burke. Junk.

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11-03-2012, 10:31 AM
  #116
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Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
Answer the question. Why did Barry Trotz and a much better Nashville team think more highly of Franson? Barry Trotz didn't put Franson in the press box.
Im not Barry Trotz for f sakes. Ask him. If they thought of him so highly why did they basically give him away. Answer that.

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11-03-2012, 10:40 AM
  #117
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Originally Posted by hockeyfanz View Post
Im not Barry Trotz for f sakes. Ask him. If they thought of him so highly why did they basically give him away. Answer that.
Answer: They're a financially strapped organization and saved millions by "Giving Away" Franson and Lombardi. It was a financial decision pure and simple. Burke was given Franson in exchange for taking Lombardi's contract off their hands. Everyone knows this.


Just like when Burke bought a 4th round pick from Tampa.

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11-03-2012, 10:42 AM
  #118
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Nah...with Schenn...it was because he sucked. With other guys like Franson, he was mishandled. So much hypocrisy on these boards. Laughable.
The only people saying Schenn sucks is people like you.

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Bigger role though on the NHl's be defense. And TRotz played him everynight.
Not really a bigger role. Just more games.

And once again, Nashville's is more top-heavy than depth-heavy.

And the only reason he didn't get more games last year was because Gardiner came out of nowhere and essentially took his spot at the last minute.

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Who cares about Connolly..who cares about Komi, who cares about Armie, who cares about Lombardi, who cares about Steckel, who cares about Wallin, Gustavsson, Who cares about Exelby and Bozak, who cares about Orr or MacArthur....who cares.

The list of players that have gone through the turnstiles and continue to do so....who cares. Who cares about Brian Burke. Junk.
You could do that for every team, especially ones in a rebuild phase looking for stop-gaps for their prospects. There are a bunch of players on every team that wouldn't really be missed. Even more-so when you start talking 4-year periods.

And Steckel, Macarthur and Bozak especially are good players and bring something to the table.

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Im not Barry Trotz for f sakes. Ask him. If they thought of him so highly why did they basically give him away. Answer that.
Because Nashville is a team that has to worry about money, and the uninsured Lombardi contract was a big problem for them.

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11-03-2012, 04:06 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
Answer: They're a financially strapped organization and saved millions by "Giving Away" Franson and Lombardi. It was a financial decision pure and simple. Burke was given Franson in exchange for taking Lombardi's contract off their hands. Everyone knows this.


Just like when Burke bought a 4th round pick from Tampa.
Again, we know this but surely you don't think Nashville would give away a future star player for them just to dump a contract. He was expendable. Burke wanted him. Done. He again....another guy...The Leafs don't really need Franson....all this perceived defensive depth says so. Didn't even have room for the number 5 pick of a few years back.

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11-03-2012, 04:08 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by Whydidijoin View Post
The only people saying Schenn sucks is people like you.


Not really a bigger role. Just more games.

And once again, Nashville's is more top-heavy than depth-heavy.

And the only reason he didn't get more games last year was because Gardiner came out of nowhere and essentially took his spot at the last minute.


You could do that for every team, especially ones in a rebuild phase looking for stop-gaps for their prospects. There are a bunch of players on every team that wouldn't really be missed. Even more-so when you start talking 4-year periods.

And Steckel, Macarthur and Bozak especially are good players and bring something to the table.


Because Nashville is a team that has to worry about money, and the uninsured Lombardi contract was a big problem for them.

It really is amusing how every player on the team has "value", was a good signing, trade, draft pick or whatever but the team toils in the basement of the league year after year. What are these players bringing to the table? Hot dogs not bacon.

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11-03-2012, 05:35 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by DirtyDion03 View Post
It's not the helmets that are the problem. It's the shoulder equipment and the lack of respect in the game. Hate to say it but Grapes saw it coming along time ago. Head shots were not as serious or as big of a problem before helmets. Now people have lost all respect because they see the helmet.
While that's partially right, another aspect that can't be forgotten that concussions used to be called "getting your bell rung" not that long ago, and players were expected to "man up" after such hits. They do need to reduce the armor the players wear, though.

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11-03-2012, 05:38 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by hockeyfanz View Post
Again, we know this but surely you don't think Nashville would give away a future star player for them just to dump a contract. He was expendable. Burke wanted him. Done. He again....another guy...The Leafs don't really need Franson....all this perceived defensive depth says so. Didn't even have room for the number 5 pick of a few years back.
Now you're just being silly.

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11-03-2012, 05:39 PM
  #123
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Who cares about Connolly..who cares about Komi, who cares about Armie, who cares about Lombardi, who cares about Steckel, who cares about Wallin, Gustavsson, Who cares about Exelby and Bozak, who cares about Orr or MacArthur....who cares.
I like how you identified the core of the team right there, half of them who aren't even with the Leafs anymore (and the rest have like one year remaining on their contracts). Who cares, indeed. Are you sure you're not concerned about Versteeg, Aulie, Schenn, Beauchamin, and Lebda still?

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11-03-2012, 11:12 PM
  #124
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Again, we know this but surely you don't think Nashville would give away a future star player for them just to dump a contract. He was expendable. Burke wanted him. Done. He again....another guy...The Leafs don't really need Franson....all this perceived defensive depth says so. Didn't even have room for the number 5 pick of a few years back.
He was expendable in the sense that Schenn was expendable. They had guys ready to break through. And you greatly undervalue the financial reasons.

It doesn't matter if he was a huge need or not. He was a free asset.

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11-03-2012, 11:15 PM
  #125
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It really is amusing how every player on the team has "value", was a good signing, trade, draft pick or whatever but the team toils in the basement of the league year after year. What are these players bringing to the table? Hot dogs not bacon.
Steckel is one of if not the best face-off man in the league, and an ideal 4th-line center. Face-offs are greatly undervalued around here.

Bozak is good defensively, decent offensively, and has chemistry with our best player. Good at face-offs. A good 3rd-liner who can step up in injury situations. Not to mention he was free.

Macarthur is a 20-goal scorer, which is rarer than most people realize around here. Also was free.

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