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Admirals vs. Senators - Game 1

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11-03-2012, 12:00 PM
  #176
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Originally Posted by Henkine View Post
Definitely the worst player of the Admirals though. And although that is debatable, he doesn't look like the best player of a pro league at the moment. Sorry Heksagon, I know you like Vatanen as a prospect but if he doesn't get his **** together he won't become an NHL player.
He leads the team in assists and points. But yeah, he's the worst player on the team. DEFENITELY.

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11-03-2012, 12:25 PM
  #177
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Seems like Vatanen should be benched. Watching a few games eating popcorn in the stands might give him the wake-up call to start playing not floating around.
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Originally Posted by Henkine View Post
Definitely the worst player of the Admirals though. And although that is debatable, he doesn't look like the best player of a pro league at the moment. Sorry Heksagon, I know you like Vatanen as a prospect but if he doesn't get his **** together he won't become an NHL player.
Dude are you high? So he had a few blunders in the defensive zone, he's still been the guy of all the baby Ducks to show a pro-level game...at least offensively.

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11-03-2012, 12:49 PM
  #178
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Originally Posted by Elvstrand View Post
He leads the team in assists and points. But yeah, he's the worst player on the team. DEFENITELY.
Pretty sure he only meant in last night's game.

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11-03-2012, 12:50 PM
  #179
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People definitely need to slow their role when talking about the rookies down there. Remember that even the guys that were in men's leagues last year are trying to find their way with new teammates, countries, and styles of play. Even guys like Vatanen are still in the polishing phase of their careers.

Expect bad games.

In the cases of guys like Bobkov, Etem, Lindholm, Andersen, and Wagner; don't go looking for them to be superstars out of the gate. Every prospect has their own timetable. What's important is that they make progress over the course of the season.

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11-03-2012, 12:52 PM
  #180
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Originally Posted by Henkine View Post
Seems like Vatanen should be benched. Watching a few games eating popcorn in the stands might give him the wake-up call to start playing not floating around.
After a bad game, in a bunch of pretty good ones? That's a good way to kill a young player's confidence.

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11-03-2012, 01:04 PM
  #181
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Originally Posted by Henkine View Post
Definitely the worst player of the Admirals though. And although that is debatable, he doesn't look like the best player of a pro league at the moment. Sorry Heksagon, I know you like Vatanen as a prospect but if he doesn't get his **** together he won't become an NHL player.
How can he definitely have been the worst player, but it's still debatable? Vatanen had a bad game. It was disappointing and an example that he's not a finished product, but we're talking about 1 game in 7, and like heks said, he still managed to show some good throughout the game.

I was the most critical of his game last night, and I still think this is excessive. Vatanen, based on what I've seen, could already be in the NHL based on his offensive game alone. Sure, the Ducks are going to want to see him round out his game a bit more, but he's giving Anaheim a pretty good reason to give him a shot in the NHL, where they can continue to polish out his game more. His impact on the PP alone is going to be tantalizing to the Ducks, and an area the Ducks need to get better in if they want to keep last season's woes in the rear view mirror.

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11-03-2012, 02:09 PM
  #182
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Personally I'm very disappointed in Vatanen. It seems like he has regressed three years of development. He is the unsecure teenager again who has the speed and soft hands but doesn't know what to do with them. It's exactly like his first year in FEL. Bad minus in +/- stats and for a reason. He was a defensive liability, and he turns out to be that again now three years later. It's just frustrating to watch. At 2 AM I might add.

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11-03-2012, 02:17 PM
  #183
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Originally Posted by Henkine View Post
Personally I'm very disappointed in Vatanen. It seems like he has regressed three years of development. He is the unsecure teenager again who has the speed and soft hands but doesn't know what to do with them. It's exactly like his first year in FEL. Bad minus in +/- stats and for a reason. He was a defensive liability, and he turns out to be that again now three years later. It's just frustrating to watch. At 2 AM I might add.
Smaller ice, different type of game. Anyhow, what exactly are you expecting out of Vatanen? I view him as a top prospect. The way you're conveying your thoughts it seems as though he's an NHL 7 year regular that hasn't found his groove or consistency defensively and ignore Vatanen's strength offensively.

This almost sounds similar to the Etem fans that were touting he was the next greatest thing to Ketchup. And when Etem doesn't show up, those fans don't either. Ends up those who didn't see Etem as great, don't seem him as terrible, but rather a prospect still needing to grow.

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11-03-2012, 02:21 PM
  #184
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Vatanen's play last night would probably get him benched in the NHL, but I still don't see it as that bad. Not like it would result in a demotion or scratch or anything. Just part of the normal yo-yos of a rookie.

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11-03-2012, 02:29 PM
  #185
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I don't really get why you'd be disappointed in Vatanen. His offensive abilities are top notch. He skates well. Makes good decisions more often than not. He's flat out excellent on the PP. Sure, he's not great defensively, but who among us was expecting that? Vatanen has never been touted as a two-way stud. More than that, as Duckie said, he's not a finished product. There are going to be growing pains, as he adjusts to the AHL, and then the NHL after. I think it was Paul who said that the skill differences between the AHL and the FEL weren't all that great, but that the leagues were just different. Personally, I think he's adjusted as well as can be expected, considering. One bad game doesn't change any of this, it just highlights the point that he's a work in progress.

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11-03-2012, 02:40 PM
  #186
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Originally Posted by snarktacular View Post
Vatanen's play last night would probably get him benched in the NHL, but I still don't see it as that bad. Not like it would result in a demotion or scratch or anything. Just part of the normal yo-yos of a rookie.
Probably. At the very least, his ice time would have been cut back that game, if he wasn't outright benched for a stretch. The very next game though, he'd probably be right back where he was. Boudreau seems pretty encouraging of young players too, so he'd probably do what he could to keep Vatanen's confidence up.

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11-03-2012, 02:59 PM
  #187
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His offensive abilities are top notch. He skates well.
I don't disagree at all with this, but defender has to defend and Vatanen hasn't delivered in defensive end.

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Originally Posted by Sojourn View Post
Makes good decisions more often than not.
He makes positional errors more often than not. Also he has problems in decision making, when it's wise to try to keep the puck in offensive zone and when to back down to neutral to get ready to defend.


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Sure, he's not great defensively, but who among us was expecting that? .
I expect Vatanen to be at least as good defensively as he was for the last two years. Positional defending and good poke checks and solid PK. That shouldn't be too much to ask.

He was considered as a lock for World Championships for two years in a row. With this kind of play there is no chance for him to play himself in the Finnish national team.


I thought Vatanen would play himself in the Ducks line-up right from the camp. Now it doesn't seem worth the risk. Maybe I had too big hopes for him. I considered him as high of a prospect as his countryman Granlund.

Vatanen truly was great in the defensive zone in Finland. Maybe the smaller ice and higher pace is a bit too much for him to handle. Or maybe he's still learning the North American game. But watching him and Lindholm I must say that Lindholm's transition to NA game has gone better for now.

There is still a lot to play in the season. We'll see if Vatanen starts to play better when he gets accustomed to the game. Also learning the language might help him feel more comfortable on the ice also.

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Old
11-03-2012, 03:43 PM
  #188
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Originally Posted by Henkine View Post
I don't disagree at all with this, but defender has to defend and Vatanen hasn't delivered in defensive end.
Believe me, I've been one of the louder voices regarding Vatanen needing a more complete game. I agree that he needs to be reliable defensively. For the most part, I think he's been good enough in the AHL. It's too early to say if it's good enough in the NHL, but I'd certainly expect a few struggles in that regard. He needs to get better, but there's something to work with there, and every reason to think he'll improve.

Quote:
He makes positional errors more often than not. Also he has problems in decision making, when it's wise to try to keep the puck in offensive zone and when to back down to neutral to get ready to defend.
Keep in mind he's on small ice now. The positional game changes a bit. Also, on deciding when to hold the line and when to back off, I'd consider that an experience issue for a young defenseman. Vatanen clearly thinks offense first, and that's okay, but at the NHL level you really need to be willing to play defense first, at least when you should be. The rest of the time he can think offense first. These are easily fixable issues, that will come with some experience and coaching.

Quote:
I expect Vatanen to be at least as good defensively as he was for the last two years. Positional defending and good poke checks and solid PK. That shouldn't be too much to ask.

He was considered as a lock for World Championships for two years in a row. With this kind of play there is no chance for him to play himself in the Finnish national team.

I thought Vatanen would play himself in the Ducks line-up right from the camp. Now it doesn't seem worth the risk. Maybe I had too big hopes for him. I considered him as high of a prospect as his countryman Granlund.

Vatanen truly was great in the defensive zone in Finland. Maybe the smaller ice and higher pace is a bit too much for him to handle. Or maybe he's still learning the North American game. But watching him and Lindholm I must say that Lindholm's transition to NA game has gone better for now.

There is still a lot to play in the season. We'll see if Vatanen starts to play better when he gets accustomed to the game. Also learning the language might help him feel more comfortable on the ice also.
It's a different game here, and he's having to learn to play that game. Let him get acclimated first. That's not regression, not really. It's just a young player adjusting. Defensively, it's a much tougher game in North America, because there is less time and space, it's a more physical in your face type of game, and really... with the lockout, he's facing NHL talent immediately. Not low end NHL talent either, but some seriously good young players.

Making the jump directly into the NHL was always a long shot, and it certainly wasn't going to be a seamless transition. To be blunt, I think anyone who expected him to jump directly into the NHL as a great player was either overestimating Vatanen, and the FEL, or they were underestimating the NHL, and how rare it is for players to jump directly in without a few struggles.

The bottom line is that we're talking about a 21 year old defenseman here, who is getting his first taste of North American hockey. He's already not a finished product, and on top of that he's going through a pretty big culture shock, both on and off the ice. Let the kid settle into the game a bit. As he gets more comfortable, he'll probably show more of the Vatanen you're expecting, and some experience and coaching will do the rest.

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Old
11-03-2012, 04:10 PM
  #189
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I must admit I got a bit carried away with the negativity. There are promising aspects to Vatanen's game but there where some posters who didn't seem to admit there are things to his game that must improve. Points in AHL aren't the only thing that make an NHL player. At first I thought I would clean up some of my earlier posts but it's a bit late for that isn't it .

Now it seems we are on the same page. Vatanen's offensive game is a treat to watch and it will be fun keeping track of his improvement in D-zone during the season.

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Old
11-03-2012, 05:37 PM
  #190
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I got in a lot of discussions about this before. Vatanen needs some time to adjust to the defensive type of game in NA. The potential is there, he just simply needs to adjust, but now - games like theese will happen, but it`s only normal.

The offense is there, but for the defensive side - he needs to adjust slowly, without any rushing.

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