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The Center Pole : who are the futur 4 center!!

View Poll Results: What is your top 4 !
Plekanec 130 79.27%
Deshanais 99 60.37%
Eller 145 88.41%
Gomez 8 4.88%
White 26 15.85%
Nokelainen 2 1.22%
Leblanc 34 20.73%
Bournival 40 24.39%
Galchenyuk 136 82.93%
Dumont 7 4.27%
Vail 10 6.10%
Pribyl 1 0.61%
Cichy 2 1.22%
Nattinen 5 3.05%
Geoffrion 6 3.66%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 164. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
11-02-2012, 08:57 PM
  #51
Habitant le colon
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Having this in mind fo a while let's put down what i see :

from now this year :

Cole Desharnais Pacioretty
Gionta Plekanec Galchenyuk
Bourque Eller Prust
Armstrong White (Gomez) Moen

then 2013-14

Desharnais Galchenyuk Pacioretty
Cole Plekanec Gionta (Gallagher)
Bourque (Leblanc) Eller Prust
Armstrong (Geoffrion) White Moen


I think Desharnais have a place in this team ... i'd love to see him centre or center (wich do you prefer ?) Cole and Pacioretty but as NewHabsEra mentionned earlier we can have the trio Back together on PP1 and have : Galchenyuk Plekanec Gionta (Gallagher) on the second unit wich is good too.

Main thing is are we going to see a great Chemistry with Galchenyuk Pacioretty and Desharnais ?? Plausible but we have to wait'n'see !

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Old
11-02-2012, 10:20 PM
  #52
DAChampion
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twi2teD View Post
Richards and Carter went on to win the Stanley cup, so I'd hold off on pronouncing the trade a good one for Philly.
They won the Stanley Cup as supporting cast members. Players like Kopitar, Quick, Doughty, Brown, etc mattered a lot more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Twi2teD View Post
This is all your opinion, and that's fine, but I don't know how you can predict that we won't be contenders until after Plekanec retires or declines. We very well could win the Stanley cup next year. I don't give a crap about who the favorites are at the beginning of the year. Montreal has most of the premier pieces in place, add some scoring and grit on defense and all bets are off. That could literally be done in one offseason, so no, we shouldn't be blowing up this team. In my opinion.
The reality is that year-in and year-out in the NHL, the best predictor of a team's regular season finish is the previous season's finish. The correlation is extremely high, and the reason for that is obvious: 82 games is a legitimate sample size to measure a team's abilities.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Twi2teD View Post
The biggest reason we bombed so hard last year, was our best player, Markov, being once again lost to injury. If he's healthy, which all signs point to, then we are twice the team we are without him. Also let's not forget all the other injuries that plagued us last year. We didn't have any depth to handle them.
Simply not valid. The Markov-less Habs went to 8th place and 6th place in the previous two seasons. The collapse has nothing to do with losing Markov.

You also should not expect the return of 2007-08 Markov. That was five years ago, he's older and rustier now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy View Post
I doubt Plekanec has comparable value to Richards and Carter.
He is a top-20 center in the NHL for offensive skills, he has elite PK skills leading the 2nd best PK unit in the league, he is sturdy with no injury history, He's 30 years old and is signed to a great contract.

Let's say Plekanec is worth less than Richards. Instead of getting Schenn and Simmonds, we get Schenn-equivalent (e.g. Jonathan Huberdeau) and a 2nd rounder. OK, good trade. Instead of getting Couturier and Voracek, we get Couturier-equivalent (e.g. Filip Forsberg, Teuvo Terrevainen) and a 2nd rounder, OK, good trade.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Not a horrible analogy. Point was to show you how dumb it is to think our team is limited to 3rd worst with Plekanec on it. Our team was also 1st a few years ago with Plekanec on it. It's not because we struggled last year that we should get rid of Plekanec now.

As for the Richards-Carter comparison. Well, first off, those two were rumored to have off ice issues, Plekanec not at all. Second, the Flyers believed Giroux could take over as #1 center and he had shown capable of so, we don't have anybody yet that proved that.
Finally, Richards and Carter brought the Flyers to the cup finals, and they won it together in LA. I didn't think it was such a great trade before, and I still don't today.
The return wasn't bad, but Richards is someone I'd take on my team and in the POs any day of the week.
You are making two arguments:

1) That 2013 Montreal trading Plekanec is analogous to 2006 Pittsburgh trading Crosby.
2) That 2013 Montreal trading Plekanec is not analogous to 2011 Philadelphia trading Carter and Richards.

Pause and reflect please.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Actually, that's exactly what it means. You make young players play=invest in future. Trading vets for younger good prospects also means investing in the future. Both mean it, and it's not because you don't like Palushaj that he shouldn't be looked at. You also conveniently focused on him and Engqvist, our two worst forward prospects perhaps to have played with us last year. What about all the other names I mentioned, that were actually good.
Playing Palushaj, Engvist, etc is not investing in the future, because their potential rate of return is low. They're not investments, they're collateralized debt obligations or mortgage-backed securities, i.e. what you're doing is taking several different youths who are rated junk bond and assuming that because you have so many of them the total package is "AAA", it's not. Investing in the future means buying dividend-paying blue chips (young players, advanced prospects), or pouring money into venture capital (draft picks).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
As for the other players that we let go, it's been discussed to the point of exhaustion. Stupid mistakes, but it's a previous administration, and it had nothing to do with our ''collapse''. We've been a mediocre-good team under the previous admin over the years, we were again a mediocre team last year that probably would have battled for 8th spot in the POs, until Gauthier decided to fire Martin, replace him with Cunney, and traded away Cammy.
It has everything to do with our collapse. A similar roster went to the conference finals a few years back. A similar roster went to 6th place in the Eastern Conference and took the eventual Stanley Cup champions to a game 7 overtime. However, once you lose Hamrlik, Wisniewski, Halpern, Moore, etc you end up being a weaker team. Due to the fact we had depleted our farm system, because we were not investing in the future, we didn't have anybody to replace those losses.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
This lockout really hurts because this would have been the year to really see Plek-DD-Eller compete against one another (so long as they were given the opportunity to do so). At some point, especially once Gally comes around, we will most likely have to move one of those centers, but we don't have to do it now nor does it absolutely have to be Plekanec.
OK: let's wait longer so as to minimize Plekanec's trade value, we need him to compete for 12th place

BTW, part of the reason for trading Plekanec now for someone who is a prospect/pick now rather than someone who is a prospect/pick in 2015 is that we will need the production in 2015. That's about when Galchenyuk, Beaulieu, etc will be good players.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fozz View Post
As for Philly being a better team without Richards & Carter, how can you make that statement when they got the exact same number of points than the previous season, after having fixed their most important weakness in goals?
2010-2011 Sergei Bobrovsky had a better save percentage than 2011-2012 Ilya Bryzgalov; the latter also had a nervous breakdown in the playoffs.
2010-2011 Chris Pronger played 25 more regular season games, and 13 more playoff games, than 2011-2012 Chris Pronger.

In spite of these setbacks, the 2011-2012 Philadelphia Flyers had a similar regular season finish, and that's because Couturier+Schenn+Voracek+Simmonds >> Carter+Richards.

Imagine how lopsided the trades will appear as Schenn and Couturier enter their primes and both become 60-70 point players.

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Old
11-02-2012, 11:02 PM
  #53
Agnostic
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Originally Posted by Habitant le colon View Post
You just got to learn that BOTH are accepted !! : http://grammarist.com/spelling/center-centre/

so thank to Grammarist !

Now onion oignon or ognon ?
See Canadian Oxford Dictionary please. That's the spelling authority and you will find there what is accepted and not.

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Old
11-03-2012, 08:00 AM
  #54
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I think that at some point next summer either eller or plekanec will be traded or move the wing.

2012-2013
Deharnais
Plekanec
Eller
White/Leblanc

2013-2014
Desharnais
Eller
Galchenyuk
White/Leblanc

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Old
11-03-2012, 08:37 AM
  #55
Mr. Hab
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I really enjoy watching Desharnais's crafty style, and I love that he has made it to the NHL as an underdog, but...

I don't want to see our Habs pay Desharnais $5 mil/year...his agent will ask this sooner than later (especially if it's Meehan $^&*#$%).

5'5 - 5'6 center...my prediction is...he will be injury prone (especially in playoffs when more players play injured...don't see this happening with Desharnais...imo). And he can't always be surrounded by perfect power forwards like Cole and Pacioretty (those two can make any center look great, but yes I can admit that all three were great, but...time to try other wingers for Desharnais...just to see if he's able to help other wingers that need help, ex: Bourque).

I like underdog stories (really I do)...and small players that make it to the nHL, but not sure I'd take that chance (in the long-run) with Desharnais, unless...we can keep all of our TOP 4 centers (Plekanec, Galchenyuk, Eller, Desharnais), but I don't see this happening since Desharnais will ask for lots of $$$$$ (all players - or most - ask for the most $$$$ they can get). And, Leblanc may surprise some...he may end up being a better center VS Eller...time will tell. (and keep Eller on the 3rd line so he can't ask for Desharnais money!! *sarcasm*).

Plekanec: some forget he's still relatively young (a young veteran), never complains about defensive tasks (and doesn't complain even though he isn't given Cole and Pacioretty to play with), has great work ethic (on/off ice), very fair salary (very rare in NHL!), iron-man (always there for us), solid defensively, decent offense and sometimes underrated (always dangerous on the PK for breakaways).


The next 3-4 seasons:
1. Plekanec/Galchenyuk
2. Galchenyuk/Plekanec
3. Eller/Leblanc*
4. Bournival/Dumont/White
-------------------- ------------------
*Leblanc (winger/center...great for center depth in case of injuries...and I'd bet that he goes on to have a solid career as a 3rd line center with two-way 2nd line center as UPSIDE).



p.s.: sounds mean, but...I really don't think 5'5 - 5'6 Desharnais (as a 1st or 2nd line center) will be the key factor to helping us win a Cup. Next 3-4 seasons I'd go with Galchenyuk, Plekanec, Eller, Leblanc, Bournival, etc..instead of Desharnais. Desharnais (packaged with a Weber and/or Bourque) could get us a 1st Rnd Pick and/or a very good prospect...and more maybe.
IMHO.


Last edited by Mr. Hab: 11-05-2012 at 04:03 AM.
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Old
11-03-2012, 10:26 AM
  #56
Habitant le colon
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Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
See Canadian Oxford Dictionary please. That's the spelling authority and you will find there what is accepted and not.


centre Pronunciation: /ˈsɛntə/
(US center)«----------------------------------

http://oxforddictionaries.com/defini...entre?q=center

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Old
11-03-2012, 12:00 PM
  #57
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Trade pleks as soon as the season resumes, dd after the season. Our top 2 will get a good return and we will be contenders every year, possibly after this year depending on our draft.
Gally, Eller, Leblanc, white at center

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Old
11-03-2012, 12:53 PM
  #58
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Galchenyuk
Plekanec
Eller
White

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Old
11-03-2012, 01:04 PM
  #59
Andy
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I wonder if Plekanec AND Desharnais were both "local talents" how many fans would people still want to move Plekanec.

Desharnais should be moved to wing before ever being traded. Plekanec should be kept.

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Old
11-03-2012, 01:28 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Let's say Plekanec is worth less than Richards. Instead of getting Schenn and Simmonds, we get Schenn-equivalent (e.g. Jonathan Huberdeau) and a 2nd rounder. OK, good trade. Instead of getting Couturier and Voracek, we get Couturier-equivalent (e.g. Filip Forsberg, Teuvo Terrevainen) and a 2nd rounder, OK, good trade.

...

BTW, part of the reason for trading Plekanec now for someone who is a prospect/pick now rather than someone who is a prospect/pick in 2015 is that we will need the production in 2015. That's about when Galchenyuk, Beaulieu, etc will be good players.

...

Imagine how lopsided the trades will appear as Schenn and Couturier enter their primes and both become 60-70 point players.
I think the fundamental difference of opinion here, is that you appear to believe in the straight up, sure thing development of prospects. As talented as they all are, I would bet that some of the kids you named in those quotes (Huberdeau, Forsberg, Teravainen, Galchenyuk, Beaulieu, Schenn, Couturier) don't pan out, or at least don't reach your expectations.

By trading a good player on a reasonable contract from 30-33 years old for a prospect who still has some learning to do, you're trading a bird in hand for one in the bush.

I do believe a little bit in your "window of opportunity" approach, but I think there are other moves the Habs can make with that in mind. If the team is a loser again next year, Gionta is a safe bet to have value. Maybe either Markov or Kaberle re-establishes some deadline value as well. And Cole, who is 4 years older than Plekanec, would be attractive to a "win-now" team.

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Old
11-03-2012, 01:36 PM
  #61
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Desharnais is not even close to being ready for the 1st line, he will get eaten alive by other teams top forwards. As long as DD is there Pleks will need to be in front of him eating up those tough minutes.

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Old
11-03-2012, 01:42 PM
  #62
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It mainly depends on what "future" means.

Anything longer than two years, including this one, and Plekanec gone is a possibility.

For 12-13 :

DD
Pleks
Eller
White/Dumont

Explanation : DD and Pleks are interchangeable. If anything, I'd really try DD with Bourque if Pleks can't make him work (which is... extremely likely). EC-DD-MP needs to remain together at the beginning, but if RB-TP-BG doesn't work, make it EC-TP-BG and RB-DD-MP.

Eller? Give him TM and one of LL or CA. Pretty decent 3rd line.
4th? Think of something like BP-RW-?? (likely CA), or, even better, BP-GD-RW. CA becomes something of a luxury spare; but CA might start the season on the 2nd line if Bourque is gone.

PN? Irrelevant
SG? Well, he COULD be relevant IF we want to try DD on wing AND we're still stuck with him on the roster. I'd rather have Eller on wing than DD, but Eller pretty much sucked on wing, so it has to go to DD. TP on LW is also possible, but extremely unlikely. Otherwise, GTFO SG.

2013-14

It mainly depends on :

- Is AG ready?
- Was DD able to play wing on a Top-6 (and be better at it than all our other wingers?)
- Are TP and LE still in Montreal (I'd be really surprised to see LE gone; TP wouldn't surprise me)?
- Did some players slow down? (TP is a distinct possibility amongst C's; BG and EC are distinct possibilities at W; RB slowing down would be redundant because he sucked last season, but he could have become a 15-goal man for all we know, and in this case, he's gone)
- Are some players from Hamilton ready? Mainly thinking about Bournival here. Naatinen is an outside possibility. By 2013-14, I wouldn't consider Dumont a prospect anymore, and besides, IF Dumont gets a spot in the lineup in 13-14, it will be as a 4th C.

Tentantive center depth chart for 13-14 :

Desharnais
Galchenyuk
Eller
Dumont

OR

Eller (more experienced means 1st C, but outproduced by AG)
Galchenyuk (DD plays wing right here)
Plekanec OR Bournival
Dumont

An oddity :

- Users suggesting we tank, yet absolutely cling on Plekanec.

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Old
11-03-2012, 01:52 PM
  #63
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Regarding Eller on the wing:

I don't think comparing his games with the Habs at center vs on the wing is apples vs apples. He was put on the wing on the tough minutes line when he first joined the team, and wasn't ready for the assignment. When he played at center on a line with AK against some second and third tier players, he did better. As he grows smarter and stronger, I'd like to see what he can do with Plekanec again a couple of years after the first wing experiment.

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Old
11-03-2012, 01:53 PM
  #64
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Purely on talent right now?

Plek
DDH
Eller
Gomez

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Old
11-03-2012, 02:23 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roulin View Post
Regarding Eller on the wing:

I don't think comparing his games with the Habs at center vs on the wing is apples vs apples. He was put on the wing on the tough minutes line when he first joined the team, and wasn't ready for the assignment. When he played at center on a line with AK against some second and third tier players, he did better. As he grows smarter and stronger, I'd like to see what he can do with Plekanec again a couple of years after the first wing experiment.
I must admit that you're bringing a very good perspective here... This, plus the fact that Eller doesn't have the best on-ice vision amongst our C's and potential C's, mean that he's probably worth a try on wing.

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Old
11-03-2012, 02:48 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy View Post
I wonder if Plekanec AND Desharnais were both "local talents" how many fans would people still want to move Plekanec.

Desharnais should be moved to wing before ever being traded. Plekanec should be kept.
I think it's a mix of a lot of things. With not a whole lot of locals, you need to keep the ones that works. He looks great with Cole and MaxPac making it a very good either 1st or 2nd line as you wish. So he stays and plays centerman. Unless you're able to then bring 5 or 6 more locals and good contributors, DD does stay. So it makes Pleks movable the day GAlly is able to be a #1. You are, as far as I'm concerned, able to get obviously much more for Pleks than with DD. So you have Gally, DD and the return of Pleks in your lineup. Obviously, Gally won't be able to do everything Pleks does right away so while you lose in experience, you gain in pure talent. And the experience, you might get it in the Pleks return. Or you hope Eller turns into a less-offensive Pleks but just as defensive awared.

If you ask me if I'd like my centermen to all be fast and be 6'3'', I would tell you yes. So in the end, my wishlist is based on taste but also reality. So in the end, for the short term, it does stay Pleks/DD/Eller/Whoever. It then becomes Gally/DD/Eller/Vail (with the idea that he comes what we had in mind for Chipchura or a Kris Draper).

I do not see Leblanc or White as centermen in the NHL. Never. Not even sure about Bournival, though it's possible.

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Old
11-03-2012, 02:51 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roulin View Post
Regarding Eller on the wing:

I don't think comparing his games with the Habs at center vs on the wing is apples vs apples. He was put on the wing on the tough minutes line when he first joined the team, and wasn't ready for the assignment. When he played at center on a line with AK against some second and third tier players, he did better. As he grows smarter and stronger, I'd like to see what he can do with Plekanec again a couple of years after the first wing experiment.
Well, I would also based my opinion on the player himself. While you don't often do what the players want....when a guy tells you he's clearly more at ease in a position, well he'll most likely look better there. Just like our D's who keep saying that they couldn't play on the other side and actually.....weren't able to.

We never know. He might find it better the 2nd time around. I just believe that the mix of us needing size down the middle and him liking it better makes him a much needed C than W. And needless to say that as of now, our depth looks better on the wings than on C. And Eller at center "might" make Pleks more expendable when the time comes (not saying now....nobody panic please...)

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11-03-2012, 03:45 PM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Well, I would also based my opinion on the player himself. While you don't often do what the players want....when a guy tells you he's clearly more at ease in a position, well he'll most likely look better there. Just like our D's who keep saying that they couldn't play on the other side and actually.....weren't able to.

We never know. He might find it better the 2nd time around. I just believe that the mix of us needing size down the middle and him liking it better makes him a much needed C than W. And needless to say that as of now, our depth looks better on the wings than on C. And Eller at center "might" make Pleks more expendable when the time comes (not saying now....nobody panic please...)
Therrien was thinking using Eller on the Pleks' wing and I think thats a pretty good idea short term since Eller woUld be wasting centering grinders on the third line..

So when the game resume, we could have a line-up looking like this:

Cole DD Pac

Gio Pleks Eller

Moen Prust Armstrong

White Noke Boyce/Bourque

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Old
11-03-2012, 03:56 PM
  #69
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no.1 center: Alex Galchenyuk

no.2 center: David Desharnais

no.3 center: Lars Eller

no.4 center: Michael Bournival

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Old
11-03-2012, 04:08 PM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
I think it's a mix of a lot of things. With not a whole lot of locals, you need to keep the ones that works. He looks great with Cole and MaxPac making it a very good either 1st or 2nd line as you wish. So he stays and plays centerman. Unless you're able to then bring 5 or 6 more locals and good contributors, DD does stay. So it makes Pleks movable the day GAlly is able to be a #1. You are, as far as I'm concerned, able to get obviously much more for Pleks than with DD. So you have Gally, DD and the return of Pleks in your lineup. Obviously, Gally won't be able to do everything Pleks does right away so while you lose in experience, you gain in pure talent. And the experience, you might get it in the Pleks return. Or you hope Eller turns into a less-offensive Pleks but just as defensive awared.

If you ask me if I'd like my centermen to all be fast and be 6'3'', I would tell you yes. So in the end, my wishlist is based on taste but also reality. So in the end, for the short term, it does stay Pleks/DD/Eller/Whoever. It then becomes Gally/DD/Eller/Vail (with the idea that he comes what we had in mind for Chipchura or a Kris Draper).

I do not see Leblanc or White as centermen in the NHL. Never. Not even sure about Bournival, though it's possible.
The problem with a Gally/DD combo, is it means Galchenyuk will be taking tough matchups right off the bat - ideally Eller would take some of the load, but Galchenyuk would be playing against relatively high end competition. DD isn't hopeless defensively by any means but he's not going to produce against big, fast players unless he's constantly surrounded by big, fast wingers like he was with Patches and Cole last year - and last year we saw what happens when one line cannibalizes the offense. It's only ideal if you have 100 point guys on that line like the Sedins, at least in my opinion.

Hopefully Galchenyuk in his prime will be a legitimate 2-way beast, but it's rare for that to happen right away like Toews. Giroux at first played on the wing on a team that had matchup beast Mike Richards.

And this is another reason you should be cautious about trading anyone right now. I don't think DD was a fluke, I really don't, but it's not crazy to think he might regress from last season. Plekanec might be the devil we know and that's boring, but DD and Eller still have a lot of what-ifs. They both could end up getting much better, or not...

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Old
11-03-2012, 04:25 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Well, I would also based my opinion on the player himself. While you don't often do what the players want....when a guy tells you he's clearly more at ease in a position, well he'll most likely look better there. Just like our D's who keep saying that they couldn't play on the other side and actually.....weren't able to.

We never know. He might find it better the 2nd time around. I just believe that the mix of us needing size down the middle and him liking it better makes him a much needed C than W. And needless to say that as of now, our depth looks better on the wings than on C. And Eller at center "might" make Pleks more expendable when the time comes (not saying now....nobody panic please...)
Good points.

I just think it's a good idea not to close any doors unnecessarily. Having players who have experience at both C and W is a good thing. Especially if it means the team is not pressured into trading good players.

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11-03-2012, 05:11 PM
  #72
Agnostic
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Best case is the Habs get near #1 pick again and take another centre.

In 2 years DD might be exactly where he is now... in the Swiss League.

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11-03-2012, 06:29 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
Best case is the Habs get near #1 pick again and take another centre.

In 2 years DD might be exactly where he is now... in the Swiss League.
I don't think that the lock-out will last three years

Seriously, Desharnais is at least a 2nd center who will produce minimum 50 points per year.

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11-03-2012, 06:46 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
They won the Stanley Cup as supporting cast members. Players like Kopitar, Quick, Doughty, Brown, etc mattered a lot more.
Richards was a supporting cast? He was a key player in their win being the third most used forward and scoring 15pts in 20gp. I guess we have different standards for supporting cast. Carter yes, Richards no.
But the point still stands, they were in the Finals a few years ago as Flyers, and they won it last year. Philly has won nothing, yet, nor is it assured that they ever will.

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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
The reality is that year-in and year-out in the NHL, the best predictor of a team's regular season finish is the previous season's finish. The correlation is extremely high, and the reason for that is obvious: 82 games is a legitimate sample size to measure a team's abilities.
Sure, if you're a computer. If not, you follow the off season because you realize there's free agency, trade market, there's also progression of your players and possibly young rookies coming up to play an important role as well.

Otherwise, the team that finished 30th will always finish 30th. So, fact remains, you have no idea where we will be in 3years as changes as sure to occur.

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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
He is a top-20 center in the NHL for offensive skills, he has elite PK skills leading the 2nd best PK unit in the league, he is sturdy with no injury history, He's 30 years old and is signed to a great contract.
Precisely why we should keep him.

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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Let's say Plekanec is worth less than Richards. Instead of getting Schenn and Simmonds, we get Schenn-equivalent (e.g. Jonathan Huberdeau) and a 2nd rounder. OK, good trade. Instead of getting Couturier and Voracek, we get Couturier-equivalent (e.g. Filip Forsberg, Teuvo Terrevainen) and a 2nd rounder, OK, good trade.
Wouldn't be interested in any trade unless it assures us of getting an elite top liner, or top 5 pick+ (maybe even top 3).

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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
You are making two arguments:

1) That 2013 Montreal trading Plekanec is analogous to 2006 Pittsburgh trading Crosby.
2) That 2013 Montreal trading Plekanec is not analogous to 2011 Philadelphia trading Carter and Richards.

Pause and reflect please.
Yes, for different reasons that are clear and for different points.

1) This was to show that it's not because your team finishes last that you have to trade away good players.

Maybe you don't view Plekanec as a building block, but I do. You need players like him on your team. He is still young, and we have time to build our team into a winning one with him still performing very well.
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Playing Palushaj, Engvist, etc is not investing in the future, because their potential rate of return is low. They're not investments, they're collateralized debt obligations or mortgage-backed securities, i.e. what you're doing is taking several different youths who are rated junk bond and assuming that because you have so many of them the total package is "AAA", it's not. Investing in the future means buying dividend-paying blue chips (young players, advanced prospects), or pouring money into venture capital (draft picks).
Why do you keep focusing on those two?
What about PK? Price? MaxPac? DD? Eller? What about signing Emelin? Diaz?
Going through the young route is investing in the future no matter how you want to slice it. It's not because we don't have a superstar prospect down that we didn't invest in our future. We also stocked up on picks. We have four of them alone in the first two rounds in the next draft.

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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
It has everything to do with our collapse. A similar roster went to the conference finals a few years back. A similar roster went to 6th place in the Eastern Conference and took the eventual Stanley Cup champions to a game 7 overtime. However, once you lose Hamrlik, Wisniewski, Halpern, Moore, etc you end up being a weaker team. Due to the fact we had depleted our farm system, because we were not investing in the future, we didn't have anybody to replace those losses.
Yes, mistakes were done, it's been discussed when they were being done.
But again, we probably would have battled for a PO spot if Martin wasn't fired and replaced by someone that clearly was not up to the task.
After that happened, it all went downhill.
All we had was a shaky start and then panicky moves, one after the other.
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
OK: let's wait longer so as to minimize Plekanec's trade value, we need him to compete for 12th place
Or, let's not trade him at all..

As I previously mentioned, there's no need to move him, he is a valuable asset to have on any team. You want players like him. I get why you'd be interested in moving him, and I can agree on some level. I just wouldn't move him unless it's a gross overpayment coming our way.
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
BTW, part of the reason for trading Plekanec now for someone who is a prospect/pick now rather than someone who is a prospect/pick in 2015 is that we will need the production in 2015. That's about when Galchenyuk, Beaulieu, etc will be good players.
And those guys will need role models and good veterans on the team, guys like Plekanec.

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Old
11-03-2012, 07:21 PM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roulin View Post
I think the fundamental difference of opinion here, is that you appear to believe in the straight up, sure thing development of prospects.
You shouldn't fabricate arguments without evidence, it makes you look ridiculous.

I don't believe a bird in the bush is worth more than a bird in the hand, but I would take two birds in the bush over one bird in the hand. The idea is to do as Philadelphia did: to trade away good players for players who have the potential to become better.

By the way, you know what Tomas Plekanec's performance in 2015 and 2016 counts as? It counts as a bird in the bush.

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