HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > The Business of Hockey
The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, and NHL revenues.

Make Whole, Not War (CBA & Lockout Discussion) XIX

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
11-03-2012, 02:26 PM
  #401
Killion
Global Moderator
 
Killion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Pacific NW
Country: Canada
Posts: 21,042
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by thinkwild View Post
If Dregger wants to be an insider reporter, he should report and keep his conflict of interest opinions to himself. Stop becoming the news or is that the new business model for struggling sports journalists?
... that bridge was crossed quite some time ago Im afraid tw. The messengers and their biases more important than the message, the events & people their paid to report on, cover. Infotainers.

Killion is offline  
Old
11-03-2012, 02:27 PM
  #402
bluesfan94
#BackesforSelke
 
bluesfan94's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: St. Louis
Country: United States
Posts: 6,036
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by thinkwild View Post
If Dregger wants to be an insider reporter, he should report and keep his conflict of interest opinions to himself. Stop becoming the news or is that the new business model for struggling sports journalists?
How did he become the news or report opinions?

bluesfan94 is offline  
Old
11-03-2012, 02:27 PM
  #403
Cloned
Sexy Genesis
 
Cloned's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 21,638
vCash: 500
And so the real negotiating begins, finally.

__________________

Sig AND X-mas avatar courtesy of The Nemesis

"Pull yourself together!" - Solid Snake to Otacon, multiple times in the series
Cloned is offline  
Old
11-03-2012, 02:28 PM
  #404
Erik Estrada
One Country United!
 
Erik Estrada's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Land of the Habs
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,678
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CBJBrassard16 View Post
What? How are they backing the owners when they're just reporting news they get.
In the TSN news story:

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=408711

"This move by the owners is considered a significant concession"

Who considers the move a significant concession. The PA? The League? There's no source to this quote that greatly enhances the league's position. And the PA has been on record several times saying the Make Whole didn't interest them...

Erik Estrada is offline  
Old
11-03-2012, 02:29 PM
  #405
Ducks DVM
Moderator
There is no grunion
 
Ducks DVM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Long Beach, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 15,186
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik Estrada View Post
Just look going forward at any bad news day by the league. It'll be followed by some other positive news that they already have pre-packaged for these emergency situations. When the coincidence happens every single time, it's not a coincidence...It's an old political trick. Not saying it's particularly wrong to do that. It"s information management. It is what it is.
So are you claiming that the owners somehow paid a player to leak the information to Dreger, or that the owners paid Dreger made the information up? Because this information release has absolutely zero to do with the owners unless one is wearing a tinfoil hat that wouldn't be out of place at the Kentucky Derby.

Ducks DVM is offline  
Old
11-03-2012, 02:30 PM
  #406
The Shrike
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 464
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Renbarg View Post
Neither have furiously backed the owners. Yes Dreger has definitely appeared to lean towards the owners (especially the past few days), McKenzie I'm not so sure of. Having said that TSN is not going to lose their contract with the NHL for being critical. TSN will lose their contract if they are outbid.

On the other hand, if Dreger is too pro-owners you can bet he will lose some of his contacts among players.
Losing a few player interviews is nothing compared to losing arena access. The first is an inconvenience, the second costs a sportswriter/caster their job.

The Shrike is offline  
Old
11-03-2012, 02:31 PM
  #407
bluesfan94
#BackesforSelke
 
bluesfan94's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: St. Louis
Country: United States
Posts: 6,036
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik Estrada View Post
In the TSN news story:

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=408711

"This move by the owners is considered a significant concession"

Who considers the move a significant concession. The PA? The League? There's no source to this quote that greatly enhances the league's position. And the PA has been on record several times saying the Make Whole didn't interest them...
They've also been on the record saying they want contracts honored in full, which this would do. They were against the previous Make Whole because it would be players paying players

bluesfan94 is offline  
Old
11-03-2012, 02:32 PM
  #408
Erik Estrada
One Country United!
 
Erik Estrada's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Land of the Habs
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,678
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ducks DVM View Post
So are you claiming that the owners somehow paid a player to leak the information to Dreger, or that the owners paid Dreger made the information up? Because this information release has absolutely zero to do with the owners unless one is wearing a tinfoil hat that wouldn't be out of place at the Kentucky Derby.
The story in and of itself is insignificant. It's the slant taken by the story. Which is a commentary piece presented as hard news.

Erik Estrada is offline  
Old
11-03-2012, 02:32 PM
  #409
CBJBrassard16
Sergei BobTrollsky
 
CBJBrassard16's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 12,656
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik Estrada View Post
In the TSN news story:

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=408711

"This move by the owners is considered a significant concession"

Who considers the move a significant concession. The PA? The League? There's no source to this quote that greatly enhances the league's position. And the PA has been on record several times saying the Make Whole didn't interest them...
Must be both, since the players leaked it, and the NHL reluctintly confirmed.

CBJBrassard16 is online now  
Old
11-03-2012, 02:34 PM
  #410
Orrthebest
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 754
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik Estrada View Post
It was a PR move by the league. Which by the way they're amazing at. They've schooled the PA up to now... They always follow up any bad new item quickly by pulling out other breaking news that replaces it. Most obvious examples: Luntz fiasco buried the next day by the Brooklyn Islanders announcement. Winter Classic cancellation followed by this non-offer that was spun as a "major concession".
Sure GB and BD are evil geniuses. They new if they made this offer on Tuesday somebody on the players side would leak it on Friday at the same time they were canceling the WC.

Orrthebest is offline  
Old
11-03-2012, 02:37 PM
  #411
Ducks DVM
Moderator
There is no grunion
 
Ducks DVM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Long Beach, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 15,186
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik Estrada View Post
The story in and of itself is insignificant. It's the slant taken by the story. Which is a commentary piece presented as hard news.
Again, as the information came from a PLAYER, are you insinuating the owners somehow got the PLAYER to text Dreger yesterday, or that the owners compensated Dreger for putting out the report and spinning it yesterday?

It seems a little disingenuous to blame the owners for a story that didn't originate with them.

Ducks DVM is offline  
Old
11-03-2012, 02:38 PM
  #412
Renbarg
Registered User
 
Renbarg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: NY
Country: United States
Posts: 8,870
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Shrike View Post
Losing a few player interviews is nothing compared to losing arena access. The first is an inconvenience, the second costs a sportswriter/caster their job.
This will never happen. I think it has happened once in recent history (Chris Botta vs. Snow/Wang). Chris Botta was a blogger at the time. It'll never ever happen to a guy from TSN or CBC or NBC or any of their major partners. It just won't.

Renbarg is online now  
Old
11-03-2012, 02:38 PM
  #413
One Trick Pony
Registered User
 
One Trick Pony's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,542
vCash: 500
Some people just can't accept that it is the owners who keep making the good offers.

One Trick Pony is offline  
Old
11-03-2012, 02:39 PM
  #414
SidTheKid8787
Registered User
 
SidTheKid8787's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 6,197
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CBJBrassard16 View Post
Must be both, since the players leaked it, and the NHL reluctintly confirmed.
Exactly.
All this other nonsense, is just nonsense.
I sure would like to see the details of it and why Fehr calls it another "smokescreen" though.

If you go by the PA's position of them not liking the first "deferment" idea, this should be a considerable move in order to get the 2 sides talking again, which is exactly what Dreger reported it as. He figured it should gain some traction.

SidTheKid8787 is offline  
Old
11-03-2012, 02:41 PM
  #415
Renbarg
Registered User
 
Renbarg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: NY
Country: United States
Posts: 8,870
vCash: 500
Dreger reported this is as a significant concession off of the offer the NHL just presented (he mentioned earlier that this is considered an amendment).

Why is the PA (and their supporters) so hung up about the semantics of the word "concession?"

Renbarg is online now  
Old
11-03-2012, 02:42 PM
  #416
LEAFS FAN 4 EVER
GO LEAFS GO
 
LEAFS FAN 4 EVER's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,775
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik Estrada View Post
It was a PR move by the league. Which by the way they're amazing at. They've schooled the PA up to now... They always follow up any bad new item quickly by pulling out other breaking news that replaces it. Most obvious examples: Luntz fiasco buried the next day by the Brooklyn Islanders announcement. Winter Classic cancellation followed by this non-offer that was spun as a "major concession".
It may have been a PR move by the league letting someone like Dreger report that information, however I don't like it for this reason. The NHL goes ahead and cancels the Winter Classic which I was very much looking forward to seeing. Plus it's the first time they finally let a Canadian team like Toronto play in one. So knowing all this why didn't the NHL let the NHLPA know about their concession last week or earlier because they could have talked and maybe saved the Winter Classic. Basically if they reach a new CBA next week or in two weeks, then I say why even cancel the Winter Classic?

LEAFS FAN 4 EVER is offline  
Old
11-03-2012, 02:44 PM
  #417
Erik Estrada
One Country United!
 
Erik Estrada's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Land of the Habs
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,678
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orrthebest View Post
Sure GB and BD are evil geniuses. They new if they made this offer on Tuesday somebody on the players side would leak it on Friday at the same time they were canceling the WC.
I'm not saying they're evil geniuses. I'm saying they have a carefully crafted information management strategy for this lockout. It's a fact they have a strategy for the press and the fans. On the last lockout:

"The preparation for war began in the early part of 2000, more than four-and-a-half years before the deal was set to expire. Broad strategy sessions were held in the commissionner's office at NHL headquarters, where Bettman brought together the in-house and outside lawyers... to try and predict how the NHLPA would attempt to parry them...They crafted the message that would be sold to the press and the fans."

Gatehouse, The Instigator, p. 96

Let's not delude ourselves. There's a PR strategy for both camps. This was part of it. The owners have done a better job than the players.

Erik Estrada is offline  
Old
11-03-2012, 02:45 PM
  #418
Gigantor The Goalie
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: New London
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,534
vCash: 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by Renbarg View Post
Dreger reported this is as a significant concession off of the offer the NHL just presented (he mentioned earlier that this is considered an amendment).

Why is the PA (and their supporters) so hung up about the semantics of the word "concession?"
Because they don't want to allow themselves to start thinking about ways to negotiate. They all just love to whine and complain.

Gigantor The Goalie is online now  
Old
11-03-2012, 02:46 PM
  #419
Renbarg
Registered User
 
Renbarg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: NY
Country: United States
Posts: 8,870
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LEAFS FAN 4 EVER View Post
It may have been a PR move by the league letting someone like Dreger report that information, however I don't like it for this reason. The NHL goes ahead and cancels the Winter Classic which I was very much looking forward to seeing. Plus it's the first time they finally let a Canadian team like Toronto play in one. So knowing all this why didn't the NHL let the NHLPA know about their concession last week or earlier because they could have talked and maybe saved the Winter Classic. Basically if they reach a new CBA next week or in two weeks, then I say why even cancel the Winter Classic?
1) Dreger confirmed that the NHL spoke to the PA about this three days ago.

2) They're is a deadline for everything. The NHL had a deposit in place. They had to let the venue know by a certain date whether or not they plan on going through with the Winter Classic, otherwise they lose significantly more of that deposit. That date was yesterday. Fans have already booked hotels, flights, etc. Canceling the event two months in advance lets these people also get a majority of their money back.

Renbarg is online now  
Old
11-03-2012, 02:48 PM
  #420
Renbarg
Registered User
 
Renbarg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: NY
Country: United States
Posts: 8,870
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik Estrada View Post
I'm not saying they're evil geniuses. I'm saying they have a carefully crafted information management strategy for this lockout. It's a fact they have a strategy for the press and the fans. On the last lockout:

"The preparation for war began in the early part of 2000, more than four-and-a-half years before the deal was set to expire. Broad strategy sessions were held in the commissionner's office at NHL headquarters, where Bettman brought together the in-house and outside lawyers... to try and predict how the NHLPA would attempt to parry them...They crafted the message that would be sold to the press and the fans."

Gatehouse, The Instigator, p. 96

Let's not delude ourselves. There's a PR strategy for both camps. This was part of it. The owners have done a better job than the players.
Everybody knows that there is a PR strategy for everything done in business nowadays. Still doesn't explain your claim in this situation (the NHL letting this information leak through a player-connected source at the most opportune time for them).

Renbarg is online now  
Old
11-03-2012, 02:48 PM
  #421
DocBrown
Registered User
 
DocBrown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,247
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik Estrada View Post
I'm not saying they're evil geniuses. I'm saying they have a carefully crafted information management strategy for this lockout. It's a fact they have a strategy for the press and the fans. On the last lockout:

"The preparation for war began in the early part of 2000, more than four-and-a-half years before the deal was set to expire. Broad strategy sessions were held in the commissionner's office at NHL headquarters, where Bettman brought together the in-house and outside lawyers... to try and predict how the NHLPA would attempt to parry them...They crafted the message that would be sold to the press and the fans."

Gatehouse, The Instigator, p. 96

Let's not delude ourselves. There's a PR strategy for both camps. This was part of it. The owners have done a better job then the players.
So what are you saying? I'm still unclear.

Are you saying Darren Dreger did not receive his information from an NHLPA source?

Are you saying the NHL did not reluctantly confirm?

Are you saying Dreger is a liar?

Wouldn't it have been better PR for the league to "leak" that offer info tuesday, then shift the blame to the PA before cancelling the WC.

You're being vague, and it seems you're creating a conspiracy theory.

DocBrown is offline  
Old
11-03-2012, 02:49 PM
  #422
Powdered Toast Man
Is he a ham?
 
Powdered Toast Man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,552
vCash: 500
I'm sure there is a Powerpoint presentation somewhere in New York that has every offer the owners will ever make and what time it will be presented over the next year or so.

Powdered Toast Man is online now  
Old
11-03-2012, 02:51 PM
  #423
DocBrown
Registered User
 
DocBrown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,247
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Powdered Toast Man View Post
I'm sure there is a Powerpoint presentation somewhere in New York that has every offer the owners will ever make and what time it will be presented over the next year or so.
With dates for when the NHLPA will independantly leak the news of the offers to the media as well?

DocBrown is offline  
Old
11-03-2012, 02:51 PM
  #424
Gigantor The Goalie
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: New London
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,534
vCash: 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik Estrada View Post
I'm not saying they're evil geniuses. I'm saying they have a carefully crafted information management strategy for this lockout. It's a fact they have a strategy for the press and the fans. On the last lockout:

"The preparation for war began in the early part of 2000, more than four-and-a-half years before the deal was set to expire. Broad strategy sessions were held in the commissionner's office at NHL headquarters, where Bettman brought together the in-house and outside lawyers... to try and predict how the NHLPA would attempt to parry them...They crafted the message that would be sold to the press and the fans."

Gatehouse, The Instigator, p. 96

Let's not delude ourselves. There's a PR strategy for both camps. This was part of it. The owners have done a better job than the players.
Still though a player leaked the information to Dreger. The NHL only confirmed the verbal offer. Did the NHL take advantage of a good situation? Maybe. However it's not as if the NHL planned the Friday news releases as the Winter Classic gets cancelled then they announce they are making major concessions. Your missing his point. Who cares if they have plans for their PR. Of course they do, its not instantaneous the things they do, but this Friday's announcement and then the leak were not in the plan.

Gigantor The Goalie is online now  
Old
11-03-2012, 02:52 PM
  #425
The Shrike
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 464
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Renbarg View Post
This will never happen. I think it has happened once in recent history (Chris Botta vs. Snow/Wang). Chris Botta was a blogger at the time. It'll never ever happen to a guy from TSN or CBC or NBC or any of their major partners. It just won't.
So, the NHL won't bring up their unhappiness with Cherry and Maclean during the upcoming broadcast rights negotiations with the CBC?

For that matter, what about Al Strachan, highly supportive of the NHLPA during the last CBA talks, critical of the league during his HNIC Hot Stove segments, then gets drummed out of the business. The leaked news was it happened at Burkes request because he wrote that Leafs Sucks book, which was quite "convenient" for the powers that be.

The Shrike is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:39 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.