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2012-13 Lockout Discussion Part VI: The "What Comes Before Square One?" Edition

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Old
11-02-2012, 11:53 PM
  #76
NYRFAN218
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Antithesis View Post
Forever is a long, long time friend. The NHL has been around about 100 years. 500 from now?
At the rate of these work stoppages, it wouldn't shock me to see the NHL kill itself off in the next 100 years.

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11-03-2012, 08:04 AM
  #77
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The Post was told by a well-placed source the Red Wings had informed the league at least a week ago that the organization no longer believed it was possible to stage a first-class, untainted event. This opinion, the source reported, was shared on Sixth Avenue by COO John Collins, who is effectively responsible for the production that for the last two years had included HBO’s “24/7” run-up to the outdoor game.
Quote:
Daly will meet today with NHLPA counsel Steve Fehr in what will represent the first face-to-face meeting of the parties since Oct. 18. The league has told the union it may be willing to fund the “make whole” provision on existing contracts, but has not provided any details on the matter. The league previously insisted that the union accept all of the league’s proposed changes regarding contract issues as a condition of meeting.
http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/more_...nRHH6fL0fx6CvL

The players gained free agency at 7 or 27 and arbitration after 4 years in exchange for the 24% rollback and accepting the cap. The players should keep those gains. The players also proposed getting rid of walk away rights. They have to make some gains for the concessions they are making. Give it to them. If a team isn't sure they want to pay a player X amount,don't give him the QO which allows him to file for arbitration. Make that player a free agent. The players have to give contract term limits. Not the 5 years proposed by the NHL. 7 or 8 years. The NBA has had contract term limits since 2 or 3 CBAs ago. Get rid of the dummy contracts. The NHL had proposed a 5 year ELC in July. 2 years guaranteed and 3 team options. Now its 2 years. The NHL feels a player won't have the numbers in just 2 seasons to get a big contract. The NHL proposed arbitration starting at 5 years instead of the current 4 so the player has no leverage in years 3-4-5. They also added a clause about a player needing to play X amount of games to have the ELC year count. No more of the player playing 1 game or getting put on the active roster and having that count as a season off the ELC. The players will still get major contracts at 7 or 8 years. The NFL contracts are not guaranteed. MLB contracts aren't 10 plus year deals. Fehr and his brother know that. Jeter got a 10 year deal a long time ago. AROD got a 10 year deal. Pitchers don't get long term deals. 7 years in usually the max. The NBA contracts are capped at 5 years for your players and 4 years for free agents. Don't be babies about contract term limits. There is a deal to be made.

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11-03-2012, 08:05 AM
  #78
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Just talk. No PR garbage.

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Nick Cotsonika ‏@cotsonika
Let's hope Bill Daly and Steve Fehr meeting in undisclosed location is good news. No public posturing. Just quiet business.

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11-03-2012, 08:13 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Tortorella View Post
The Rangers will never have another goalie as good as Lundqvist. IMO.
Same was said about Richter.

Sure the same was said about Vanbiesbrouck.

Definitely said about Giacomin.

Worsley, Kerr, and Rayner.

Sure enough, however, the Rangers have always had a history of finding the next best in their history.

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11-03-2012, 08:54 AM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/more_...nRHH6fL0fx6CvL

The players gained free agency at 7 or 27 and arbitration after 4 years in exchange for the 24% rollback and accepting the cap. The players should keep those gains. The players also proposed getting rid of walk away rights. They have to make some gains for the concessions they are making. Give it to them. If a team isn't sure they want to pay a player X amount,don't give him the QO which allows him to file for arbitration. Make that player a free agent. The players have to give contract term limits. Not the 5 years proposed by the NHL. 7 or 8 years. The NBA has had contract term limits since 2 or 3 CBAs ago. Get rid of the dummy contracts. The NHL had proposed a 5 year ELC in July. 2 years guaranteed and 3 team options. Now its 2 years. The NHL feels a player won't have the numbers in just 2 seasons to get a big contract. The NHL proposed arbitration starting at 5 years instead of the current 4 so the player has no leverage in years 3-4-5. They also added a clause about a player needing to play X amount of games to have the ELC year count. No more of the player playing 1 game or getting put on the active roster and having that count as a season off the ELC. The players will still get major contracts at 7 or 8 years. The NFL contracts are not guaranteed. MLB contracts aren't 10 plus year deals. Fehr and his brother know that. Jeter got a 10 year deal a long time ago. AROD got a 10 year deal. Pitchers don't get long term deals. 7 years in usually the max. The NBA contracts are capped at 5 years for your players and 4 years for free agents. Don't be babies about contract term limits. There is a deal to be made.
I have no dog in the hunt but ... here is a thought about the "major concession" by the NHL.

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Shawn...-Test/67/47341

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Old
11-03-2012, 09:40 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by ltrangerfan View Post
I have no dog in the hunt but ... here is a thought about the "major concession" by the NHL.

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Shawn...-Test/67/47341
Everyone has an opinion. Every blogger. Every college professor.

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11-03-2012, 09:57 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Canon1990 View Post
Sorry for my ignorance, and I havent been able to follow what was going on the past week, but what exactly is "Make Whole provision"? I don't remember hearing that expression over the past few months.
A player can loan himself money so to speak. Ie, if 9% in year one is to go into escrow, the player gets 100% year 1 but the 9% difference is paid back over the rest of that players contract, basically.

It's nothing but an insult. If a NHL player wants a loan, he can go to the bank.

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11-03-2012, 10:14 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Riche16 View Post
So it's confirmed the "make whole" will be out if the owners' share? Or just a portion? This is either huge or an almost non-issue.
Then they would have had a deal for sure, the PA offered just that. What is the difference between a cap on escrow and a set amount for y1 lol? It's EXACTLY the same thing.

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11-03-2012, 11:23 AM
  #84
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Larry Brooks ‏@NYP_Brooksie

1/2. Don Fehr memo last night to players: "You may have seen media reports of supposed league 'offer' regarding make-whole aspect..."

2/2 Fehr: "There have been no proposals from either side since Oct. 18. You should not read too much into reports of informal phone calls."

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Old
11-03-2012, 11:45 AM
  #85
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Good, keep it that way.

Quote:
James Mirtle ‏@mirtle
Fehr: "Both sides have agreed to keep [today's meeting] confidential... to keep the focus on the talks and not on conducting media scrums."

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11-03-2012, 11:50 AM
  #86
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Chris Botta ‏@ChrisBottaNHL
In memo to PA, Don Fehr shoots down report of Make Whole concessions. In text, player calls report "latest NHL smokescreen."

Chris Botta ‏@ChrisBottaNHL
Only when the weak NHL-NHLPA PR gamesmanship ends will there be a chance of NHL games beginning again.

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11-03-2012, 12:23 PM
  #87
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Actually, the offer is meaningful progress. Not every step forward has to come in the form of an official new draft contract that lays things out in detail.

And Fehr's memo to players isn't lack of progress; it is simply a rational expression of caution.

The best news is that they're meeting somewhere without cameras.

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Old
11-03-2012, 12:44 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ola View Post
A player can loan himself money so to speak. Ie, if 9% in year one is to go into escrow, the player gets 100% year 1 but the 9% difference is paid back over the rest of that players contract, basically.

It's nothing but an insult. If a NHL player wants a loan, he can go to the bank.
Thanks ola.

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Old
11-03-2012, 01:36 PM
  #89
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https://twitter.com/DarrenDreger/sta...96600411508736

Quote:
Rather than criticize language of reports, PA leadership would be better served working on ways to make a deal for its players.
Well that's obviously not going to happen.

Walsh in 3....2...1....

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Old
11-03-2012, 01:56 PM
  #90
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Darren Dreger ‏@DarrenDreger
For the record, it was a player related source who provided the tip and the NHL reluctantly confirmed the story just before 6pm Fri.

Darren Dreger ‏@DarrenDreger
I'm certain of this, based on number of texts received from players. They want a deal and want their leadership to focus on getting it done.

Darren Dreger ‏@DarrenDreger
Not to say the players are caving...they're not, but they want focus to remain on negotiations and away from petty memos to media.

Rupp's response to the tweet in the previous post...

Mike Rupp ‏@Rupper17
@DarrenDreger when outside sources continue to attempt to undermine the PA.... It's important to clear things up with the truth #dontuthink

Edit - Dreger answers...

Darren Dreger ‏@DarrenDreger
@Rupper17. Undermine? Report indicated progress. As a player you should be encouraged. If NHL backs off on position we will report as well.

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11-03-2012, 02:09 PM
  #91
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Good work by Dreger.

Quote:
Some of the discussion about what the NHL may or may not have offered this week and if it was "formal" or not is just plain silly.

If something has to be "in writing" to be formal, the NHLPA never "formally" offered to go 50/50 split if NHL honors full contracts.

Could be because this has dragged on for so long or everything else that happened this week, but I'm tired of the NHL-NHLPA ridiculousness.
- TGfireandice2:45pm via TweetDeck




What he said.

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Old
11-03-2012, 02:50 PM
  #92
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We said in the spring there was no trust between the sides. Either mend some bridges or start over with new leadership... both camps.

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11-03-2012, 03:43 PM
  #93
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We said in the spring there was no trust between the sides. Either mend some bridges or start over with new leadership... both camps.
That would be wonderful. How about we just get the NFL guys from each side in to run the show for a month?

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Old
11-03-2012, 04:00 PM
  #94
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I lean more towards the players in this battle but at this point Allan Walsh is doing more harm than good for the NHLPA. He seems to be enjoying this lockout a little too much. Not sure he ever wants to come down off the soapbox this whole fiasco has provided him.

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11-03-2012, 04:49 PM
  #95
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Rupp and Dreger had a pretty heated exchange a couple hours ago on twitter, i can't find it from the computer its was on my phone. Then Ray Farraro got involved and said some reporters need to get their emotions in check #Dreger, obvious shot on Dreger.

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Old
11-03-2012, 05:07 PM
  #96
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No mudslinging. Just talk.

Quote:
Michael Grange ‏@michaelgrange
I'm told Steve Fehr and Bill Daly still talking; less bargaining more about concepts. Good outcome would be more formal meetings to come.

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11-03-2012, 05:19 PM
  #97
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I agree wholeheartedly with everything Dreger said. And am glad there is someone out there saying it.

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Old
11-03-2012, 06:22 PM
  #98
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My view: Another week... same story.

love to hear the rumors but nothing is really changing. I hope they aren't meeting to decide whether they can meet to determine if they can meet to discuss the shape of the negotiating table?

The lockout isn't about Bettman or Fehr. After every lockout we read how the profitable team are incensed by Bettman's play. Surprising isn't it? Is Fehr, who was brought in to "drive fear" into the owners, going to lose support after a couple of weeks?

Fehr isn't going to make a deal this early unless the owners roll over. The PA isn't going to hand Bettman another winning hand in early November. My thesis: where is the urgency to hammer out a deal going to come from if too many participants are still lined up to battle for their turf?

Real money has to be lost by each side before the rank and file can rise up to possibly take control. That's still my view.

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11-03-2012, 07:11 PM
  #99
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Or one can say that the players clearly know where the deal is going and they aren't fighting 50/50. Given the profits of the last 7 years and the summer spending spree, a fair concession is honoring contracts. Why should the players automatically get bent over with zero consideration?

The deal that settles this would have been signed months ago by the PA. It comes down to Bettman maximizing his side's take. He only knows how to do it through months of locking out.

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11-03-2012, 08:26 PM
  #100
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Rupp needs to keep his mouth shut. He's annoying. He's been on SiriusXM throughout the lockout, spewing his woe is the player nonsense.

He REALLY believes he's going through some sort of hardship.

He's an AWFUL NHL player. He knows it. He knows his job is at risk. Guy scores a couple of goals per year, maybe. He plays 5 minutes per night, maybe.

Stu Bickel could do what he does, at a fraction of the cost. The cap is going down, Rupp isn't long for the NHL.

On the flip side, listen to or read Marty Biron's thoughts and insights. Its like night and day. Biron is a player and obviously has something to lose or gain, but he's always refreshing to hear. He comes off almost unbiased.

Some of these guys (Rupp) need a dirty sock stuffed in their mouth and taped. They don't help the process.

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