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Make Whole, Not War (CBA & Lockout Discussion) XIX

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Old
11-03-2012, 02:52 PM
  #426
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Originally Posted by Chazz Reinhold View Post
You have zero proof whatsoever this was a league PR trick. The only tangible evidence out there is from a credible journalist who admitted it came from the PA's side when people like you tried pulling the "PR stunt" angle.
That hasn't stopped the accusations that every single tweet by players is a PR stunt as well. No one has any 'proof' that the NHLPA even has a PR firm, whereas it is known that Luntz runs the NHL's messaging service.

Wrt the current verbal proposal, Dreger said someone from the PA side passed on the info. Fehr said there has been no proposal since Oct 18. They may be tossing ideas around so that everyone is correct.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Ducks DVM View Post
Again, as the information came from a PLAYER, are you insinuating the owners somehow got the PLAYER to text Dreger yesterday, or that the owners compensated Dreger for putting out the report and spinning it yesterday?

It seems a little disingenuous to blame the owners for a story that didn't originate with them.

Minor nit. I think Dreger said someone from the PA side. That doesn't mean it was a player.

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Old
11-03-2012, 02:52 PM
  #427
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Originally Posted by Powdered Toast Man View Post
I'm sure there is a Powerpoint presentation somewhere in New York that has every offer the owners will ever make and what time it will be presented over the next year or so.
I'm the sure the PA does too.

Actually no, since I doubt they actually have any kind of plan other than stonewall, stonewall, *****, moan.

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11-03-2012, 02:54 PM
  #428
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Originally Posted by The Shrike View Post
So, the NHL won't bring up their unhappiness with Cherry and Maclean during the upcoming broadcast rights negotiations with the CBC?

For that matter, what about Al Strachan, highly supportive of the NHLPA during the last CBA talks, critical of the league during his HNIC Hot Stove segments, then gets drummed out of the business. The leaked news was it happened at Burkes request because he wrote that Leafs Sucks book, which was quite "convenient" for the powers that be.
How does this relate to your earlier claim that dreger will lose arena access, and the counter to your argument that its only ever happened once, to a blogger, and there was mad outrage, and it was all over the news?

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11-03-2012, 02:54 PM
  #429
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Originally Posted by DocBrown View Post
So what are you saying? I'm still unclear.

Are you saying Darren Dreger did not receive his information from an NHLPA source?

Are you saying the NHL did not reluctantly confirm?

Are you saying Dreger is a liar?

Wouldn't it have been better PR for the league to "leak" that offer info tuesday, then shift the blame to the PA before cancelling the WC.

You're being vague, and it seems you're creating a conspiracy theory.

Yes, I cannot accept that someone in the media would outright fabricate a story.


(And that does mean I don't believe Dreger is lying, but is passing along something he picked up. Just like Kypreos.)

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11-03-2012, 02:55 PM
  #430
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Originally Posted by DocBrown View Post
So what are you saying? I'm still unclear.

Are you saying Darren Dreger did not receive his information from an NHLPA source?

Are you saying the NHL did not reluctantly confirm?

Are you saying Dreger is a liar?

Wouldn't it have been better PR for the league to "leak" that offer info tuesday, then shift the blame to the PA before cancelling the WC.

You're being vague, and it seems you're creating a conspiracy theory.
There's no conspiracy. The PA is probably trying to pull the same stuff with much less success however... It could have happened several ways... For example, info is found by a given journalist, goes to the League for confirmation, the league can sell them their take on the story when it's convenient for them before it goes to print. Who knows? Information management 101.

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11-03-2012, 02:56 PM
  #431
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Originally Posted by The Shrike View Post
So, the NHL won't bring up their unhappiness with Cherry and Maclean during the upcoming broadcast rights negotiations with the CBC?

For that matter, what about Al Strachan, highly supportive of the NHLPA during the last CBA talks, critical of the league during his HNIC Hot Stove segments, then gets drummed out of the business. The leaked news was it happened at Burkes request because he wrote that Leafs Sucks book, which was quite "convenient" for the powers that be.

I believe Burke worked to have a Vancouver newspaper reporter removed. Will have to send Wetcoaster a PM. He has all this stuff saved in a file.

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11-03-2012, 02:57 PM
  #432
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Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
Yes, I cannot accept that someone in the media would outright fabricate a story.


(And that does mean I don't believe Dreger is lying, but is passing along something he picked up. Just like Kypreos.)
So you think his source wasn't the NHLPA source, but someone in between, and that third party said trust me, the source was NHLPA related, and he reported on that? That's cute.

For someone that has dropped Occam's in more than one post, I'm surprised.

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11-03-2012, 02:58 PM
  #433
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Originally Posted by Erik Estrada View Post
There's no conspiracy. The PA is probably trying to pull the same stuff with much less success however... It could have happened several ways... For example, info is found by a given journalist, goes to the League for confirmation, the league can sell them their take on the story when it's convenient for them before it goes to print. Who knows? Information management 101.
So you do acknowledge the NHLPA leaked this story to Dreger?

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11-03-2012, 02:59 PM
  #434
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So you do acknowledge the NHLPA leaked this story to Dreger?
Fehr? No.

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11-03-2012, 02:59 PM
  #435
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People can keep crying "PR stunt" every time something semi-positive comes out about the NHL in these negotiations, but the bottom line is even if everything they've done is a PR stunt they've still done more than the PA. If people want to be on the players side that's fine, but let's not pretend they've been sitting here trying to make a deal and the NHL is churning out PR stunt after PR stunt.

From how I interpret everything Fehr has said, the NHLPA has no desire to make a deal this "early" on and for whatever reason think they will get a better deal by holding out. But that's just my opinion and I would be glad to be wrong.

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11-03-2012, 03:00 PM
  #436
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Is anyone becoming increasingly convinced that Fehr is hugely egomaniacal and doesn't really care about his own players? At least Bettman seems to be representing the owners that employ him, however little he make actually care about the game itself and its fans. In Fehr's case, the entire season hangs in the balance with billions in salary at stake for his players and he portrays league concessions as insults.

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11-03-2012, 03:01 PM
  #437
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Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
I believe Burke worked to have a Vancouver newspaper reporter removed. Will have to send Wetcoaster a PM. He has all this stuff saved in a file.
That's interesting, a newspaper fired a reporter because an outside influence didn't like criticism, wow. Thats crazy if true, would love to read the details Fugu.

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11-03-2012, 03:01 PM
  #438
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Shrike View Post
So, the NHL won't bring up their unhappiness with Cherry and Maclean during the upcoming broadcast rights negotiations with the CBC?
I'm not sure what Don Cherry said but everyone knows that Bettman doesn't like Ron MacLean. Everytime he did those interviews with him at the All Star Game or Stanley Cup Finals I thought MacLean would ask him some good honest questions, which may have sounded tough but they were legit and Bettman acted like he was on trial. Remember a few years ago at the All Star Game when Bettman took pre approved video questions from fans across Canada and now he just stopped doing interviews with him all together.

On Prime Time Sports with Bob McCown he says all time how Bettman doesn't like him anymore and he refuses to go on his show anymore, because like with CBC he didn't like the questions he was getting.

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11-03-2012, 03:02 PM
  #439
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Originally Posted by Erik Estrada View Post
Fehr? No.
I didn't say Fehr, I said NHLPA, but allow me to be more general, do you acknowledge the source that leaked the story was associated with the NHLPA, and was not an NHL source?

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11-03-2012, 03:02 PM
  #440
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Originally Posted by Killion View Post
... that bridge was crossed quite some time ago Im afraid tw. The messengers and their biases more important than the message, the events & people their paid to report on, cover. Infotainers.
And i guess just to reinforce your point, a hurricane of posts regarding who leaked what rather the juicy tidbit itself.

I remember once watching an nfl halftime show several years ago, and i think it was Shannon Sharpe who was the latest player turned commentator who mentioned that never as a player did he get paid as much as he was now as tv personality. And that would be right i guess, as the nfl is primarily a tv show, with its own time slot, and a fanbase that can rival any soap opera.

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11-03-2012, 03:03 PM
  #441
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Dreger and Jamal Meyers are getting it on on twitter.

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11-03-2012, 03:03 PM
  #442
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Movement off original positions should never be viewed as PR stunts. Thats actually negotiating and should be viewed as such.

Everything else shouldn't matter.
If Fehr is calling it another "smokescreen", he should say exactly why he thinks that though. And i imagine if this doesn't gain traction, he'll do exactly that.

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11-03-2012, 03:04 PM
  #443
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How does this relate to your earlier claim that dreger will lose arena access, and the counter to your argument that its only ever happened once, to a blogger, and there was mad outrage, and it was all over the news?
It relates in the back of the mind of people like Dreger when they make decisions about stories, no direct influence, but influence nevertheless. I'm not jumping on the main stream media about it, I can understand their reluctance, and if I was in their position, I wouldn't want to rock the boat either. Heck, if they're willing to go after big market owners like Dolan over content on a website about his own team, anything is possible.

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11-03-2012, 03:06 PM
  #444
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DocBrown View Post
I didn't say Fehr, I said NHLPA, but allow me to be more general, do you acknowledge the source that leaked the story was associated with the NHLPA, and was not an NHL source?
If that's what Dreger says, I believe him. I don't question his honesty.

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11-03-2012, 03:07 PM
  #445
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Andy Strickland ‏@andystrickland

#NHL informed #NHLPA last week they're prepared to come off stance on certain issues. Are we seeing signs of NHL finally ready to negotiate?


Andy Strickland ‏@andystrickland

Several players on #NHLPA conf. call encoraging PA to not push #NHL away and to engage the league

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11-03-2012, 03:08 PM
  #446
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Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
That hasn't stopped the accusations that every single tweet by players is a PR stunt as well. No one has any 'proof' that the NHLPA even has a PR firm, whereas it is known that Luntz runs the NHL's messaging service.

Wrt the current verbal proposal, Dreger said someone from the PA side passed on the info. Fehr said there has been no proposal since Oct 18. They may be tossing ideas around so that everyone is correct.






Minor nit. I think Dreger said someone from the PA side. That doesn't mean it was a player.
An accurate nit.

However, it doesn't change the point of my argument saying it's beyond ridiculous to suggest that (3 days after the fact) the league manufactured a positive story by having phone conversations about the topic knowing that someone in the other camp would leak said information a few hours after some bad news they were saying was going to happen for over a week was actually confirmed. Even more ridiculous than that last sentence.

If the league had THAT level of manipulative skill the players would all be living in communal apartments and being paid gas money. It's ridiculous on the face of it.

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11-03-2012, 03:09 PM
  #447
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Originally Posted by DocBrown View Post
So you think his source wasn't the NHLPA source, but someone in between, and that third party said trust me, the source was NHLPA related, and he reported on that? That's cute.

For someone that has dropped Occam's in more than one post, I'm surprised.

Show me where I said any of this. Don't lower yourself to fabrication, Doc.

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11-03-2012, 03:09 PM
  #448
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How can anyone not enjoy Walsh's twitter feed? He's like the drunk uncle at this wedding.

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11-03-2012, 03:10 PM
  #449
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Originally Posted by Ducks DVM View Post
An accurate nit.

However, it doesn't change the point of my argument saying it's beyond ridiculous to suggest that (3 days after the fact) the league manufactured a positive story by having phone conversations about the topic knowing that someone in the other camp would leak said information a few hours after some bad news they were saying was going to happen for over a week was actually confirmed. Even more ridiculous than that last sentence.

If the league had THAT level of manipulative skill the players would all be living in communal apartments and being paid gas money. It's ridiculous on the face of it.
On the face of it, I think we have to accept what Dreger is saying as far as the source being the non-NHL side. Either that, or accuse him of lying which I personally don't believe is the case.

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11-03-2012, 03:13 PM
  #450
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Originally Posted by CpatainCanuck View Post
Is anyone becoming increasingly convinced that Fehr is hugely egomaniacal and doesn't really care about his own players? At least Bettman seems to be representing the owners that employ him, however little he make actually care about the game itself and its fans. In Fehr's case, the entire season hangs in the balance with billions in salary at stake for his players and he portrays league concessions as insults.

No, not at all.

Bettman's ego has also been implicated numerous times over the decades on the issues he manages, but in the end, I think he's doing the job he's paid to do as best as he can. So is Fehr. They are representing their constituents' (all of them) best interests.

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