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San Jose - Vancouver trade

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Old
11-03-2012, 04:27 PM
  #26
TheJuxtaposer
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Originally Posted by Henrik To Daniel View Post
How do the Sharks not have forward depth? They were 13th in goals for last year which is still in the top half of the league. This is with Havlat missing half the season
We were 13th in the league in GF with a top-6 of Thornton, Marleau, Pavelski, Couture, Havlat, and Clowe. Only 13th. That should tell you something about the other 6 forwards.

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Old
11-03-2012, 04:29 PM
  #27
Vankiller Whale
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Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
We were 13th in the league in GF with a top-6 of Thornton, Marleau, Pavelski, Couture, Havlat, and Clowe. Only 13th. That should tell you something about the other 6 forwards.
Scoring in the West was lower than in the East though.

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11-03-2012, 04:31 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Scoring in the West was lower than in the East though.
5th in the West. But that's only because Thornton/Marleau/Pavelski/Couture are all quality first liners. Clowe was barely a 2nd liner last year (although I expect a rebound), and of course Havlat was injured.

Clowe could be just as bad next season, and never count on Havlat to play a full season.

Besides, we have exactly 7 top-9 forwards. That's really bad.

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11-03-2012, 04:57 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
5th in the West. But that's only because Thornton/Marleau/Pavelski/Couture are all quality first liners. Clowe was barely a 2nd liner last year (although I expect a rebound), and of course Havlat was injured.

Clowe could be just as bad next season, and never count on Havlat to play a full season.

Besides, we have exactly 7 top-9 forwards. That's really bad.
Then lets build something around Higgins and Raymond if decent-to-good bottom 9 forwards is a big need.

Higgins
Raymond
Schroder
Sauve
1st
(+?)

For Pavelski (small +?)

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Old
11-03-2012, 04:58 PM
  #30
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Then lets build something around Higgins and Raymond if decent-to-good bottom 9 forwards is a big need.

Higgins
Raymond
Schroder
Sauve
1st
(+?)

For Pavelski (small +?)
Yuck.

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Old
11-03-2012, 05:01 PM
  #31
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Raymond + Hansen for Clowe has generally been seen as a good basis in previous discussions. Although I'd hate giving up the Honey Badger.

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11-03-2012, 05:08 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Raymond + Hansen for Clowe has generally been seen as a good basis in previous discussions. Although I'd hate giving up the Honey Badger.
A couple problems.

Firstly, it leaves the Sharks with only 5 top-6 forwards, and one of them is Marty Havlat, who's almost assured to be injured for half the season.

Secondly, Raymond seems like Torrey Mitchell 2.0, aka a pure motor who tries to be physical (but fails) with a decent defensive game, but stonehands, not much IQ, and not much creativity. Tell me where I'm wrong, but that's my impression of Raymond. And Sharks fans everywhere cheered at the non-resigning of Mitchell.

Thirdly, we only have need of 1 more third line winger, as Tommy Wingels will basically be given a spot. Hansen and Wingels would be an amazing pair of third line wingers. But where does that leave Raymond? He's neither a 2nd liner nor a 4th liner.

Raymond just doesn't have that much value to us, and as great a third liner as Hansen is, he's still not as valuable as Clowe, who is a legit 2nd liner.

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Old
11-03-2012, 06:36 PM
  #33
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The only player I would want from the Canucks is Hansen. Thats it.

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Old
11-03-2012, 06:43 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
A couple problems.

Firstly, it leaves the Sharks with only 5 top-6 forwards, and one of them is Marty Havlat, who's almost assured to be injured for half the season.

Secondly, Raymond seems like Torrey Mitchell 2.0, aka a pure motor who tries to be physical (but fails) with a decent defensive game, but stonehands, not much IQ, and not much creativity. Tell me where I'm wrong, but that's my impression of Raymond. And Sharks fans everywhere cheered at the non-resigning of Mitchell.

Thirdly, we only have need of 1 more third line winger, as Tommy Wingels will basically be given a spot. Hansen and Wingels would be an amazing pair of third line wingers. But where does that leave Raymond? He's neither a 2nd liner nor a 4th liner.

Raymond just doesn't have that much value to us, and as great a third liner as Hansen is, he's still not as valuable as Clowe, who is a legit 2nd liner.
Raymond doesn't really have "stone hands", although his decision making could use some work. I get your reasoning though.

OTish-What's the deal with Doherty? Any chance at making the NHL as a meaningful player?

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Old
11-03-2012, 07:05 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
Secondly, Raymond seems like Torrey Mitchell 2.0, aka a pure motor who tries to be physical (but fails) with a decent defensive game, but stonehands, not much IQ, and not much creativity. Tell me where I'm wrong, but that's my impression of Raymond. And Sharks fans everywhere cheered at the non-resigning of Mitchell.
Raymond has good hands. His problem is that he plays on the perimeter too much. He's become really underrated by Canuck fans, he's great defensively and backs off defensemen with his speed. We haven't all given up on him after his terrible injury.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
Thirdly, we only have need of 1 more third line winger, as Tommy Wingels will basically be given a spot. Hansen and Wingels would be an amazing pair of third line wingers. But where does that leave Raymond? He's neither a 2nd liner nor a 4th liner.
Raymond is a 2nd liner if he can return to his pre injury form. I think there is a pretty good chance he does, he played reasonably well last season all things considered.

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Old
11-03-2012, 07:11 PM
  #36
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Yeah, Raymond is awesome. His 2 goals in 24 playoff games when the Canucks desperately needed goals was great.

You guys are like snake oil salesman

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11-03-2012, 07:12 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Raymond doesn't really have "stone hands", although his decision making could use some work. I get your reasoning though.

OTish-What's the deal with Doherty? Any chance at making the NHL as a meaningful player?
Most Sharks fans are very low on Doherty even making the NHL. Personally, after watching him in the AHL this season, I think he stands a reasonable chance of being a solid bottom-pairing guy. I don't think he will ever be a top-4 guy. Not a good enough skater and not particularly good offensively.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
Raymond has good hands. His problem is that he plays on the perimeter too much. He's become really underrated by Canuck fans, he's great defensively and backs off defensemen with his speed. We haven't all given up on him after his terrible injury.

Raymond is a 2nd liner if he can return to his pre injury form. I think there is a pretty good chance he does, he played reasonably well last season all things considered.
Is he the type of player who might mesh well with Joe Thornton?

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Old
11-03-2012, 08:02 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by PoolChamp View Post
Yeah, Raymond is awesome. His 2 goals in 24 playoff games when the Canucks desperately needed goals was great.

You guys are like snake oil salesman
That was back in 2011, you forgot his 1 pass in the 2012 playoff.

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Old
11-03-2012, 08:23 PM
  #39
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?? Raymond was legit vs the Kings and in the Finals up until he was injured. He's pretty much the only top 6 Canuck to play consistently well in the last 2 playoff series. Not gonna bring much in a trade though.

Hansen is valuable to us, but if we are getting a quality player in return it might be worth looking into. Higgy too.

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