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Make Whole, Not War (CBA & Lockout Discussion) XIX

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Old
11-04-2012, 01:05 AM
  #676
kfan22
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Originally Posted by Spezza19 View Post
Also, unless I missed it I haven't seen anything stating the meeting ended. Is it actually still going on at 1 am?
I havent seen any tweets saying they were done. Ward tweeted about 30 minutes ago saying still in meetings

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11-04-2012, 01:06 AM
  #677
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You would have to imagine this is more than just touching base and chatting?

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11-04-2012, 01:07 AM
  #678
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Originally Posted by azaloum90 View Post
I just cant see expansion without relocation of faulty franchises though... Pheonix needs to go SOMEWHERE else... and then what? we only have one possible expansion place for another team for the immediate future...

We know the Islanders will begin making money with the move to Barclays, we know that.

but what about the other teams that are still in the red?

What about Seattle not being ready until 2015?

What about Conference Realignment?

I have too many damn questions and no more answers!
Expansion would likely be to Quebec and Toronto timed to coincide with the new Canadian tv deals to maximize what the league can get from those, alignment would be the 4 conferences proposed previously (with slight changes) each split into two 4-team divisions. The two Toronto teams split with each in different conferences to maximize canadian tv dollars by ensuring each teams plays a Toronto based teams at least 4 times a season and comes into the market at least twice. Likely new Toronto goes to Central conference and Columbus moves over to the Atlantic with Quebec going to the northeast.

Seattle would get the Coyotes if that fall through

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Old
11-04-2012, 01:07 AM
  #679
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Guys.....that is huge!!! We're in the middle of the night now and an hour away from a clock turn-back. If they feel they are close, they could just want to finish it off so that it can be brought to both sides for a vote.

OR......they are are going to come back to the make whole issue and are currently working out literally everything else.

Maybe Gary and Don said, let us know when everything is drawn up.

I could be a little too optimistic here, but damn....1am

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11-04-2012, 01:08 AM
  #680
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Originally Posted by jkrdevil View Post
Expansion would likely be to Quebec and Toronto timed to coincide with the new Canadian tv deals to maximize what the league can get from those, alignment would be the 4 conferences proposed previously (with slight changes) each split into two 4-team divisions. The two Toronto teams split with each in different conferences to maximize canadian tv dollars by ensuring each teams plays a Toronto based teams at least 4 times a season and comes into the market at least twice. Likely new Toronto goes to Central conference and Columbus moves over to the Atlantic with Quebec going to the northeast.

Seattle would get the Coyotes if that fall through
There won't be a damn team in toronto FFS.

Tired of hearing this.

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11-04-2012, 01:08 AM
  #681
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Originally Posted by Stuck in Socal View Post
You would have to imagine this is more than just touching base and chatting?
HAS to be more. You pick up touching base and chatting and "ideas" in the morning or on Monday to start the work week. This is something bigger and neither side will admit it until the deal is complete.

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11-04-2012, 01:09 AM
  #682
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I am finally starting to see a glimpse of hope here...

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11-04-2012, 01:10 AM
  #683
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What time did they start the meeting at? I'm just wondering how long they've met for today so far.

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11-04-2012, 01:10 AM
  #684
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Originally Posted by Spezza19 View Post
HAS to be more. You pick up touching base and chatting and "ideas" in the morning or on Monday to start the work week. This is something bigger and neither side will admit it until the deal is complete.
What I don't get is that both sides knew the WC was gonna get canned on Friday and didn't start meeting till earlier today.

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11-04-2012, 01:11 AM
  #685
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Originally Posted by StreetSharks View Post
There won't be a damn team in toronto FFS.

Tired of hearing this.
There will be eventually. There's 3 teams in New York, 1 of which plays in a different state and the 3rd plays 25 miles or so away from the one that's actually in New York City.

It doesn't have to physically be IN Toronto to be in the Toronto market.

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11-04-2012, 01:12 AM
  #686
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Originally Posted by guyincognito View Post
There will be eventually. There's 3 teams in New York, 1 of which plays in a different state and the 3rd plays 25 miles or so away from the one that's actually in New York City.

It doesn't have to physically be IN Toronto to be in the Toronto market.
Here's my reasoning for no Toronto 2nd team...

NY Metro Area: 22 million
GTA: 6 million

The math supports why each market has the number of teams they have.

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11-04-2012, 01:13 AM
  #687
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Originally Posted by CN_paladin View Post
What I don't get is that both sides knew the WC was gonna get canned on Friday and didn't start meeting till earlier today.
I'm telling you, I really think the PA was trying to bleed the NHL of revenue so that a lockout would never be used again... THIS is where the PA finally acquired some leverage... After giving concessions last round, they're asked to give them again. Fine, but they'll make the league pay for those concessions this time... Right now it might mean less $ for them, and they understand that, but this is to prevent future lockouts.

I'm hoping Bettman steps down soon after this

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11-04-2012, 01:14 AM
  #688
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Originally Posted by jkrdevil View Post
Expansion would likely be to Quebec and Toronto timed to coincide with the new Canadian tv deals to maximize what the league can get from those, alignment would be the 4 conferences proposed previously (with slight changes) each split into two 4-team divisions. The two Toronto teams split with each in different conferences to maximize canadian tv dollars by ensuring each teams plays a Toronto based teams at least 4 times a season and comes into the market at least twice. Likely new Toronto goes to Central conference and Columbus moves over to the Atlantic with Quebec going to the northeast.

Seattle would get the Coyotes if that fall through
When is Seattle proposed to be ready? I can't see the league footing the Yotes' bill for 3 more seasons

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11-04-2012, 01:14 AM
  #689
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Originally Posted by CN_paladin View Post
What I don't get is that both sides knew the WC was gonna get canned on Friday and didn't start meeting till earlier today.
Maybe they thought it would be too difficult to pull off in such short time. Or maybe they change their minds and get it going again because of all the fans that already have money invested in the weekend.

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Old
11-04-2012, 01:17 AM
  #690
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Originally Posted by njdevil26 View Post
Here's my reasoning for no Toronto 2nd team...

NY Metro Area: 22 million
GTA: 6 million

The math supports why each market has the number of teams they have.
What's the market penetration? You have a ratio of 7 1/3M each for the NYC teams and 3M each for the Toronto teams. The ratio of fans in that 3M is going to be FAR greater than in that 7 1/3M. Enough to have equal fan bases despite the disparity?
Probably.

Let's be honest, if market size was an issue no one would ever THINK about putting a team in a place like Winnipeg again. It's market penetration that matters.

The issue would be 1) would the Leafs allow it and 2) how much would it cost to buy them off. Also you kinda wonder if Toronto fans are going to accept a second awful
hockey team. Imagine if the Leafs were just some random hockey team with no history, do they make that kind of money? I dunno.

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11-04-2012, 01:18 AM
  #691
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Originally Posted by njdevil26 View Post
Here's my reasoning for no Toronto 2nd team...

NY Metro Area: 22 million
GTA: 6 million

The math supports why each market has the number of teams they have.
Yes, but if you compared the number of hockey fans in each area, the numbers would be much closer.

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11-04-2012, 01:19 AM
  #692
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spezza19 View Post
I could be a little too optimistic here, but damn....1am
In 2005 I think one of the final meetings went until 5 or 6 am.

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11-04-2012, 01:20 AM
  #693
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11-04-2012, 01:20 AM
  #694
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Originally Posted by njdevil26 View Post
Here's my reasoning for no Toronto 2nd team...

NY Metro Area: 22 million
GTA: 6 million

The math supports why each market has the number of teams they have.
Keep in mind, 22 million vs 6 million actual people yes, but what is the population if they're hockey people?

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11-04-2012, 01:20 AM
  #695
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Originally Posted by njdevil26 View Post
Here's my reasoning for no Toronto 2nd team...

NY Metro Area: 22 million
GTA: 6 million

The math supports why each market has the number of teams they have.
Is this a joke? Most people in NY dont watch hockey. You need to include the surrounding Toronto area where hockey is even more popular. Your theory is weak.

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11-04-2012, 01:21 AM
  #696
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Originally Posted by azaloum90 View Post
I'm telling you, I really think the PA was trying to bleed the NHL of revenue so that a lockout would never be used again... THIS is where the PA finally acquired some leverage... After giving concessions last round, they're asked to give them again. Fine, but they'll make the league pay for those concessions this time... Right now it might mean less $ for them, and they understand that, but this is to prevent future lockouts.

I'm hoping Bettman steps down soon after this
Now, now, we're making progress here. Don't get greedy.

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11-04-2012, 01:22 AM
  #697
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Yes, but if you compared the number of hockey fans in each area, the numbers would be much closer.
Well my personal opinion that's not backed up by anything is I think the Leafs and the NHL are scared to put a second team there while Toronto is struggling on the ice. The Leafs may lose fans and people may jump ship to the new team... I guarantee you when the Leafs FINALLY get back in the playoffs, the 2nd team in TO talk will pick up.

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Old
11-04-2012, 01:23 AM
  #698
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the best thing that happends tonight is that no one on either side says ANYTHING

silence is golden at this point

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11-04-2012, 01:23 AM
  #699
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In 2005 I think one of the final meetings went until 5 or 6 am.
Seriously? I don't remember that at all. They didn't even meet for 3 months after the lockout started, let alone a 9 hour meeting till this hour on a Saturday/Sunday.

You could be right at the end, but the deal got done in July so there was no real urgency or reason to have marathon meetings like that.

But if so that's a very good sign. Maybe Stern told Bettman that the only way these things get done is by putting in long draining hours and keep at it. Bettman listened, just sent Daly instead.

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11-04-2012, 01:23 AM
  #700
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Longest staring contest ever.

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