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Bobby Ryan To Washington

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Old
11-03-2012, 09:25 PM
  #26
Sojourn
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Originally Posted by DohBruins View Post
Washington would have to add imo.
My opinion as well. In fact, I don't see how it could be any other way.

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Old
11-03-2012, 09:29 PM
  #27
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Everyone is in title of his opinion. Obviously my opinion is insane
Well if Kuznetsov come to NHL we will see after a season or two how insane it is

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Old
11-03-2012, 09:54 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by DohBruins View Post
They don't make very good trading partners. Anaheim's need is a true #2 center. They will want more than Johansson, and because they are giving up Bobby Ryan, they're gonna want more than him.

The Bruins and the Ducks are always gonna be the best partners when it comes to Ryan, and if Ryan gets traded the first place I will guess is Boston.
B. Schenn + L. Schenn + M. Read for B. Ryan + L. Sbisa.

Can't separate the brothers.

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11-03-2012, 09:56 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Jack de la Hoya View Post
B. Schenn + L. Schenn + M. Read for B. Ryan + L. Sbisa.

Can't separate the brothers.
Out of curiosity, what would you give for Sbisa?

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11-03-2012, 10:08 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Exit Dose View Post
Out of curiosity, what would you give for Sbisa?
Would love Sbisa in Washington, but don't see a piece that fits for Anaheim other than Johansson (who we're not trading at this point). Doubt you'd be willing to take something built around Perreault+.

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Old
11-03-2012, 10:11 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Mystlyfe View Post
Would love Sbisa in Washington, but don't see a piece that fits for Anaheim other than Johansson (who we're not trading at this point). Doubt you'd be willing to take something built around Perreault+.
I don't think Sbisa is available, but I'm curious what the values are for him.

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Old
11-04-2012, 03:20 AM
  #32
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I think that the Ducks have already found their 2nd line center, Peter Holland. So no.

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11-04-2012, 04:17 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by JabbaJabba View Post
I think that the Ducks have already found their 2nd line center, Peter Holland. So no.
Johansson and Holland were taken in the same draft and are only separated by a couple months in age. Holland has a grand total of 4 NHL games played. Johansson already has two full seasons in the NHL on a much more competitive team, and has been a productive player in that time. It's pretty obvious who's the better bet to be a long term solution as a #2C.

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Old
11-04-2012, 05:36 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Fuelled by Passion View Post
Well if Kuznetsov come to NHL we will see after a season or two how insane it is
Not really. We are not a season or two in the future right now. Obviously things can and do change, at times dramatically, over such a time. With Kuznetsov, there obviously is a chance that he has more value than Ryan two years in the future. But as of today, that's only a chance, and then there's a chance of him not being more valuable, just like another chance that he further delays coming over. These are all factors in the evaluation today, resulting in what Sojourn said - that it would be entirely unrealistic to expect Anaheim to add to Ryan in a deal around these two today. The possibility that the Ducks would have to add two years in the future doesn't change that, at all.

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Originally Posted by Mystlyfe View Post
Johansson and Holland were taken in the same draft and are only separated by a couple months in age. Holland has a grand total of 4 NHL games played. Johansson already has two full seasons in the NHL on a much more competitive team, and has been a productive player in that time. It's pretty obvious who's the better bet to be a long term solution as a #2C.
Players, or rather humans, have different development paths. Johansson likely is the safer bet, but that comparision at this point in their respective careers doesn't exactly mean too much.

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Old
11-04-2012, 09:15 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Mystlyfe View Post
Johansson and Holland were taken in the same draft and are only separated by a couple months in age. Holland has a grand total of 4 NHL games played. Johansson already has two full seasons in the NHL on a much more competitive team, and has been a productive player in that time. It's pretty obvious who's the better bet to be a long term solution as a #2C.
Johansson wouldn't have beat out Koivu for the second line center position in Anaheim the last two years and would have been left in juniors/AHL as well. As far as a "much more competitive team" goes, the Capitals only have 8 and 12 more points the last 2 seasons - swap divisions from the doormat southeast to the hypercompetitive Pacific and those numbers could easily flip - the Ducks are 6-4-2 vs the Southeast and the Capitals are 3-9-1 vs the Pacific over the last two years. All that's obvious is that Johansson has been proven to put up points when he has an all-star on his wing. Holland hasn't had a chance to prove anything one way or the other, and his AHL play indicates he deserves that shot.


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Old
11-04-2012, 09:35 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystlyfe View Post
Johansson and Holland were taken in the same draft and are only separated by a couple months in age. Holland has a grand total of 4 NHL games played. Johansson already has two full seasons in the NHL on a much more competitive team, and has been a productive player in that time. It's pretty obvious who's the better bet to be a long term solution as a #2C.
not everyone develops at the same pace

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Old
11-04-2012, 09:40 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Mystlyfe View Post
It's pretty obvious who's the better bet to be a long term solution as a #2C.
It's obvious who the safer bet is.

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Old
11-04-2012, 10:14 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Ducks DVM View Post
Johansson wouldn't have beat out Koivu for the second line center position in Anaheim the last two years and would have been left in juniors/AHL as well. As far as a "much more competitive team" goes, the Capitals only have 8 and 12 more points the last 2 seasons - swap divisions from the doormat southeast to the hypercompetitive Pacific and those numbers could easily flip - the Ducks are 6-4-2 vs the Southeast and the Capitals are 3-9-1 vs the Pacific over the last two years. All that's obvious is that Johansson has been proven to put up points when he has an all-star on his wing. Holland hasn't had a chance to prove anything one way or the other, and his AHL play indicates he deserves that shot.
Johansson plays 2RW in DC, so he wouldn't even compete with Koivu a whole lot.
Talking about divisions... Crazy talk. Yes, your division is stronger, but you don't have NYR, Boston, Pittsburgh and Philly in the Western Conference. The only team from the West close in regular season performance is Vancouver and maybe Chicago.

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Old
11-04-2012, 11:09 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by fedfed View Post
Johansson plays 2RW in DC, so he wouldn't even compete with Koivu a whole lot.
Talking about divisions... Crazy talk. Yes, your division is stronger, but you don't have NYR, Boston, Pittsburgh and Philly in the Western Conference. The only team from the West close in regular season performance is Vancouver and maybe Chicago.
What happened to Detroit?

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Old
11-04-2012, 11:17 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by fedfed View Post
Johansson plays 2RW in DC, so he wouldn't even compete with Koivu a whole lot.
Talking about divisions... Crazy talk. Yes, your division is stronger, but you don't have NYR, Boston, Pittsburgh and Philly in the Western Conference. The only team from the West close in regular season performance is Vancouver and maybe Chicago.
Yes but we play SJ/LA/PHX/DAL for 24 games a year vs 16 games that you play against those 4 Eastern Conf teams. In addition, we have to play VAN, DET and CHI for 12 games.

I don't think you'll win a discussion about comparing any Southeast Div team's schedule in recent years against any Pacific Div team, even when you expand the discussion out to include other strong teams within the conference.

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Old
11-04-2012, 11:25 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fedfed View Post
Johansson plays 2RW in DC, so he wouldn't even compete with Koivu a whole lot.
Talking about divisions... Crazy talk. Yes, your division is stronger, but you don't have NYR, Boston, Pittsburgh and Philly in the Western Conference. The only team from the West close in regular season performance is Vancouver and maybe Chicago.
If he plays at RW it's even worse because that puts him after Selanne and Perry.

You're missing the point - Washington gets quite a few extra games against the cream puffs. When you're talking about a scenario where each team having a 4 game swing in wins and losses completely reverses those point differences, it puts the lie to the "much more competitive" label.

Also, Detroit, San Jose, LA, St. Louis, Chicago and Nashville say hi.

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Old
11-04-2012, 12:04 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Ducks DVM View Post
If he plays at RW it's even worse because that puts him after Selanne and Perry.

You're missing the point - Washington gets quite a few extra games against the cream puffs. When you're talking about a scenario where each team having a 4 game swing in wins and losses completely reverses those point differences, it puts the lie to the "much more competitive" label.

Also, Detroit, San Jose, LA, St. Louis, Chicago and Nashville say hi.
None of the teams you've mentioned here (aside from maybe Chicago) perform in the regular on the same level as The Eastern Four I mentioned. Next tierm especially SJ (where East has Washington, Tampa, NJ).
Let's compare the divisions...
Anaheim and Dallas / Carolina and Winnipeg. I say that's a wash.
SJ / Washington
Then we have:
LA and Phoenix / Tampa and Florida
Tampa had a very bad year, Florida had a very good one. But for regular season, there's no huge difference between the two. Florida was a lot like Phoenix last season.
I'd say Pacific is stronger, but southeast is no "cream puffs".

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Old
11-04-2012, 12:29 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Mystlyfe View Post
Johansson and Holland were taken in the same draft and are only separated by a couple months in age. Holland has a grand total of 4 NHL games played. Johansson already has two full seasons in the NHL on a much more competitive team, and has been a productive player in that time. It's pretty obvious who's the better bet to be a long term solution as a #2C.
I wasn't talking about which one is better, obviously Johansson has already claimed a spot in Capitals' lineup. Holland is just about to do it (damn lockout) so there's no need to trade Ryan away to fill hole in the lineup when it's about to be filled.

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11-04-2012, 12:39 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Ducks DVM View Post
Johansson wouldn't have beat out Koivu for the second line center position in Anaheim the last two years and would have been left in juniors/AHL as well.
Johansson could very well have been your 3C if he didn't beat out Koivu (and I'm not convinced he wouldn't have beaten Koivu this past season). You certainly wouldn't have traded for Cogliano if you had Johansson in the fold.

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If he plays at RW it's even worse because that puts him after Selanne and Perry.
He's played primarily center. His swap to RW was facilitated by the fact he has great chemistry with Backstrom.

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I wasn't talking about which one is better, obviously Johansson has already claimed a spot in Capitals' lineup. Holland is just about to do it (damn lockout) so there's no need to trade Ryan away to fill hole in the lineup when it's about to be filled.
While they have a rookie that may fill that spot, I wouldn't consider him a sure enough of a thing to dismiss opportunities to fill the position with a known quantity.

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11-04-2012, 01:08 PM
  #45
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Holland is not the one slated to fill that position.

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11-04-2012, 01:10 PM
  #46
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You might just be rating Kuznetsov a little highly. Just a bit...
Kuznetsov is the real deal but there would be no additions for that deal.

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Old
11-04-2012, 01:33 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by fedfed View Post
None of the teams you've mentioned here (aside from maybe Chicago) perform in the regular on the same level as The Eastern Four I mentioned. Next tierm especially SJ (where East has Washington, Tampa, NJ).
Let's compare the divisions...
Anaheim and Dallas / Carolina and Winnipeg. I say that's a wash.
SJ / Washington
Then we have:
LA and Phoenix / Tampa and Florida
Tampa had a very bad year, Florida had a very good one. But for regular season, there's no huge difference between the two. Florida was a lot like Phoenix last season.
I'd say Pacific is stronger, but southeast is no "cream puffs".

In the last 3 drafts, the Southeast has had 2 lottery picks and 8 total top 10 picks. The Pacific has had ONE top 10 pick (Anaheim at 6, this year).
In the last 3 seasons, the Southeast has had 5 teams make playoff appearances (3 by Washington). The Pacific has had 10.

Points last 3 years
San Jose 113, 105, 96 average 105
Phoenix 107, 99, 97 average 101
LA 101, 98, 95 average 98
Dallas 88, 95, 89 average 91
Anaheim 89, 99, 80 average 89

Washington 121, 107, 92 average 107
Tampa Bay 80, 103, 84 average 89
Carolina 80, 91, 82 average 84
Winnipeg/Atlanta 83, 80, 84 average 82
Florida 77, 72, 94 average 81

The 2nd best team in the Southeast is equal to the worst team in the Paicific. Even if you want to say just last year the Pacific had 3 teams better than the best Southeast team.

So now let's look at the last three years of out of division big teams

Pittsburgh 101, 106, 108 average 105
Philadelphia 88, 106, 103 average 99
Boston 91, 103, 102 average 99
NYR 87, 93, 109 average 96

Vancouver 103, 117, 111 average 110
Chicago 112, 97, 101 average 105
Detroit 102, 104, 102 average 103
Nashville 100, 99, 104 average 102
St. Louis 90, 87, 109 average 95

Looks like Anaheim has had just as hard, if not harder, an out of division schedule at the top end of the conference too, doesn't it?

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Old
11-04-2012, 01:56 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Fuelled by Passion View Post
The only question if Kuznetsov come to the NHL. And if he comes I would see more of a trade like this Bobby Ryan + for Kuznetsov
HOW can Kuz be worth more than Ryan are you crazy.

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Old
11-04-2012, 01:57 PM
  #49
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First, I was talking only about the last 2 years. The years MJ spent with the Caps. You're talking about 3 years.
Second, points are a relative criteria because they are affected by the level of competition. If you have 5 good teams and 5 bad teams in one conference and 10 almost equal teams in another, teams from first conference will have more points, but it doesn't mean they're better.
When it comes to the head-to-head games, SE teams had 55 pts (1.12 per game) against PAC teams in the last two years, PAC teams had 72 (1.47 per game). As I said, Pacific is better, but the difference isn't crazy big.

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11-04-2012, 02:40 PM
  #50
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While they have a rookie that may fill that spot, I wouldn't consider him a sure enough of a thing to dismiss opportunities to fill the position with a known quantity.
Nothing is certain but there's no point to trade Ryan for him when there's a guy ready to go for the job. Maybe if Holland or Bonino doesn't work out as 2nd line center, I could see Ryan getting traded for a center and +.

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