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Edmonton Eskimos (IV): playoffs @ Toronto next week; Tillman fired

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Old
11-03-2012, 10:22 PM
  #876
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Originally Posted by guymez View Post


Please explain how the Corsi is meaningless and while your at it please explain a better way to rate a QB.

.
Serious?

Myself and many others here and elsewhere have debunked Corsi countless times. Even those that tabulate the Corsi stat were forced to realize its shortcomings and could no longer defend it thus the several revisions of Corsi called relative Corsi etc.
A couple years ago I also shot down the Team Corsi stat and I can direct you to some of my thoughts on that if you like.

Corsi is not at all a scientific or even statistically valid measure. Its a weighted derivative with arbitrary ratings involved.

I like stats, but mostly raw data, stats/min etc. Stats in otherwords that have not been manipulated by somebodies weightings and ideas about which factors are most important in a player.

No wonder we're having disagreement on this issue if you value Corsi as a statistical measure.

Next, QB efficiency ratings are specifically designed for US game, and not the CFL with one less down. As such many of the weightings used end up being less helpful in evaluating CFL QB's. The measure wasn't designed to be evaluative here.

I'll list some of the things that compromise QB ratings here.

This is of course a larger field and with more of the yds gained being inconsequential when compared to the NFL. Not all yds are created equal, much more the case here. Also that the nature of the CFL game is massive ebb and flow up the field. Whereas the NFL is much more of a field position battle of attrition. In the CFL yds attained are somewhat less important and more easily gained. So the weighting that passing yds would get in the NFL is not necessarily warranted here.

Next Interceptions. In the NFL game for similar field position reasons an interception is huge. In the CFL its essentially not the game changing event it is in the NFL. Unless you're Henry Burris and throw up 4 in a game.

TD ratio. CFL has endzones that are TWICE as large. A proper coefficient that is applicable to the CFL game would require QB's to have much better redzone performance, and TD passing numbers, to get a highscore in this game. But redzone performance isn't even an evaluation criteria. Ask yourself why not.

Next, yds/ pass average needs to be higher in this league (obviously) for a QB to get realistic weighting in this variable. Instead completion percentage(much more of a valid coefficient when applied to judging performance in 4 down football) can be less meaningful here. What good here is a series of 5yd completions. In the NFL a gain like that leads to probably moving of the sticks. Here it leads to punting as often as not. So passing % here is overrated compared to moving the chains and say average gain per throw which is arguably more important.

But if you want the readers digest version consider looking at Calvillo vs RR this year. RR has the higher QB rating but Calvillo has massacred Ray on any meaningful stat. He's tossed a dozen more TD's, over a thousand more yds, Calvillo has a superior TD throws to interceptions ratio.
But the one thing Ray has on him? Completion percentage. Thats it. A very overrated variable when applied to the CFL.


Last edited by Replacement: 11-03-2012 at 10:32 PM.
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Old
11-03-2012, 10:24 PM
  #877
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Really if this is the reason that Tillman was fired today then everybody in management should be looking for a new job. This was an extremely contentious hire and everybody knew that going in. To realize that a mere 2 yrs after is puzzling at best. This was a huge PR gamble hiring Tillman and now with the team deciding in midcourse to change direction it has all the look of a gongshow. Nobody knowing what they are doing.

I'll borrow a page out of PDO's book as well, the Esks went AGAINST the grain hiring Tillman. The popular move afairc was hiring from within and somebody like Sean Fleming or Ed Hervey.

If you make a controversial out of the ballpark hire you damned well better know what you're doing and be right on it. Looks like they got it wrong. Not one iota of the org taking responsibility for the Tillman hire either.
To be fair... I think Doug Goss had a LOT to do with this hire.

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11-03-2012, 10:29 PM
  #878
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To be fair... I think Doug Goss had a LOT to do with this hire.
Yeah but look at my post just before that. If Rhodes intention was to can Tillman then why did he sit idly by while Tillman diminished the orgs player and draft assets?

That falls completely on Rhodes that he took so long in making the change and or that he didn't veto some decisions or require consultation on moves.

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11-03-2012, 10:59 PM
  #879
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Esks win grey cup, then what? Worse timing to fire a gm, but that's Edmontonets look like clowns

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11-03-2012, 11:10 PM
  #880
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http://www.edmontonsun.com/2012/11/0...esident-rhodes

Ladies and Gentlemen.... the biggest ********* in the CFL.

Good on Jones to absolutely slam him. 100% deserved and he's been all over him for months.

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11-03-2012, 11:22 PM
  #881
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Originally Posted by PDO View Post
http://www.edmontonsun.com/2012/11/0...esident-rhodes

Ladies and Gentlemen.... the biggest ********* in the CFL.

Good on Jones to absolutely slam him. 100% deserved and he's been all over him for months.
Scathing. I like it. Rhodes isn't out of the woods yet, but I think keeping Kavis is a no brainer at this point. That list of free agents must be looked at agressively, we need this defense to stick together. Hopefully this team can regain some of it's pride.

Also, Toronto can have him!

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11-03-2012, 11:35 PM
  #882
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
Yeah, I think theres something to this. The same generation is noted to be less interested in camping, the outdoors, and experiencing any kind of weather in general.

Except say tornadoes or storms. Theres a lot of fascination for that.

They should just advertise that Commonwealth is an electric place to be during one of our many summer storms..
The generation you refer to is just a byproduct of the previous generation don't blame us. We are what you made us

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11-03-2012, 11:54 PM
  #883
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Ha, nice one. There are folks here who know who I am and my connections, which go much deeper than Tillman.

This decision was made a couple of weeks ago. It was timed this way for a reason. If the team had had some success in the playoffs and won a couple of series, they couldn't have pulled the trigger. Yes, the board does think this team can do some damage in the playoffs. This decision was made mainly because the hiring fractured the fan base.
That's a good point on the timing. I thought it might be disruptive to do it before the next game or end of the season, but if you want him gone and he has success then the optics would look bad.

Now they can win the GC without crediting him.

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11-04-2012, 12:25 AM
  #884
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That's a good point on the timing. I thought it might be disruptive to do it before the next game or end of the season, but if you want him gone and he has success then the optics would look bad.

Now they can win the GC without crediting him.
Or lose and blame him. Win/Win no doubt.

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11-04-2012, 12:33 AM
  #885
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If this stuff is true, then why in the world did they wait so long to get rid of him?

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11-04-2012, 12:39 AM
  #886
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about time...Tillman should've been fired the second he traded Ray

he's been once again exposed as a fraud GM with massive ego...MASSIVE
the fact he didn't even live here is telling, and the fact it up to Reed to handle all the management stuff is embarassing...don't let the door hit you on the way out Eric

as for Rhodes, he's a failure too...the fact so many people are quitting under his watch should be a sign that it's not them, it you Len

this franchise is rotten to the core...I think the public notices that too based on only 21,000 people showing up for the game

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11-04-2012, 01:06 AM
  #887
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First thing that jumps out at me is the fact Tillman spent most of his time working out of his office Regina. He has a job that does not work that way. He needs to be around the team

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11-04-2012, 01:21 AM
  #888
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
OK, I'm going to call out Rhodes here.

He admits in his press release that he had been thinking about canning Tillman for a long time and that he deliberated about it. As others have mentioned here there was nothing stopping him from stepping in and overruling Tillmans latest weird transactions like giving away our #1 pick and letting Boyd walk. If he had serious doubts about management then he should've engaged in due dilligence and required major moves to be run by him.

If Rhodes had these feelings about Tillman for quite awhile then what did it matter(for Tillmans credibility) if he stepped in on behalf of the org to veto a deal? He could've even done this with the RR trade, or requested more in exchange.

Its incomprehensible, and incompetent really, that Rhodes would sit idly by while Tillman was engaged in transactions that the org couldn't have been in support of.

I'm just a fan, people here know my impressions of RR but I'm not in any professional capacity posting here. Rhodes has a mandate to the team, fans and org and has CLEARLY failed that. His decision today just magnifies that he should be next on the block. Basically admitting he was not in agreement with Tillmans direction, did not want him going forward but allowed him to take actions that compromise the org.

pathetic
Agreeeeeeeeeeeeed.

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11-04-2012, 02:09 AM
  #889
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Yeah, I think theres something to this. The same generation is noted to be less interested in camping, the outdoors, and experiencing any kind of weather in general.
There's no doubt that the weather was a factor - I saw the 7 p.m. start time ten days ago and immediately gave away my seats. But I think that the weather only becomes a factor when the team is lousy - if this was a playoff game I would be out there in a heartbeat, but when the game is one last chance to see the Stamps put a licking on us, why in the heck would I suffer through that?

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11-04-2012, 10:03 AM
  #890
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11-04-2012, 10:09 AM
  #891
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Originally Posted by PDO View Post
http://www.edmontonsun.com/2012/11/0...esident-rhodes

Ladies and Gentlemen.... the biggest ********* in the CFL.

Good on Jones to absolutely slam him. 100% deserved and he's been all over him for months.
best column Jones has written in a long time. he nailed it.

I obviously have no inside info, but sounds like Rhodes has been doing his part to ruin the team, too.
maybe he also needs to go.

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11-04-2012, 10:33 AM
  #892
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That’s not Eric Tillman. As architect of the Eskimos rebuild, he demanded all the credit for all the moves, large or small, good and bad.

Last season, for example, a piece in the team’s game-day program that credited head scout Ed Hervey with recruiting linebacker J.C. Sherritt from Eastern Washington University, enraged Tillman. Unbidden, the GM made clear to numerous journalists, including me, that it was he — Tillman — who was responsible for finding Sherritt, not Hervey.
http://www.edmontonjournal.com/sport...415/story.html

if that doesn't prove how large his ego was than nothing does

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11-04-2012, 10:59 AM
  #893
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Originally Posted by The Last Dynasty View Post
http://www.edmontonjournal.com/sport...415/story.html

if that doesn't prove how large his ego was than nothing does
That article also shows how entrenched Kavis Reed is with this organization.

How he is able to continue to coach this team after lining up to punt the ball with no punter is anyone's guess.

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11-04-2012, 11:27 AM
  #894
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I would still rather go through all "this" then another second of Danny Maccocia at the helm.

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11-04-2012, 12:22 PM
  #895
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Can somebody please explain to me what record John Cornish broke, and why Andrew Harris is being called the Rushing Leader after last night?

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11-04-2012, 01:20 PM
  #896
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Originally Posted by jumptheshark View Post
First thing that jumps out at me is the fact Tillman spent most of his time working out of his office Regina. He has a job that does not work that way. He needs to be around the team
For all his faults, I don't think you can blame his having a home in Regina as the decider. Mavbe he had family and personal reasons for all we know?

I agree a GM would be of more use staying in his place of work, but a lot of people can function just fine remotely from home. He's not the coach so he doesn't have to be on the sidelines or stadium if he chooses not to. Doesn't really affect the team's performance on game day at all.

Don't get me wrong as I think his departure in general will be good for the club, but it seems people are ready to say anything bad about the guy now that he's gone.

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11-04-2012, 02:23 PM
  #897
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That article also shows how entrenched Kavis Reed is with this organization.

How he is able to continue to coach this team after lining up to punt the ball with no punter is anyone's guess.
After reading that article. He may have been on the phone trying to get a replacement player for whomever went down in the previous play hehe.

God what a gong show this team is.

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11-04-2012, 02:27 PM
  #898
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
That article also shows how entrenched Kavis Reed is with this organization.

How he is able to continue to coach this team after lining up to punt the ball with no punter is anyone's guess.
I'm not ready to throw Reed under the bus yet. From what I've read, dude could barely focus on his coaching work because he was pretty much handling Tillman's job most of the time. I'd like to see him work under a legit GM that does his job and lets Reed focus on his.

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11-04-2012, 03:09 PM
  #899
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First thing that jumps out at me is the fact Tillman spent most of his time working out of his office Regina. He has a job that does not work that way. He needs to be around the team
from the sounds of it, his excuse is that eskimo forum. He said that there were so many threats and horrible things said on that board he feared for the safety of hs family.
I don't go to that site, so some of you may have a better feel for the tone and malevolent comments brought forth on said site.

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11-04-2012, 03:28 PM
  #900
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I have to eat my words about Reed. If the article is correct, he had way too many resposiblities on his plate. I'll give him another year.

I check the esks forum refered to in the article and eventhough there is alot of hate for ET, which after what has come out and probably even more to come may be justified, there was never any threats to him or his family.

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