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11-04-2012, 03:03 AM
  #701
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
I don't think you'll find anyone who agrees with you. MPS, Gagner and a 1 is much much better than Bozak, Frattin and a 1. It's not even close.
I really like Gagner but not for us. Hank and Gagner as top 3 centres is too soft. Chicago should pick up Gagner if he's available.

I'm surprised you like MPS, his upside is basically Kulemin isn't it?.


Last edited by Scurr: 11-04-2012 at 03:20 AM.
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11-04-2012, 03:27 AM
  #702
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Is Columbus comfortable with their crease at all? Would Prospal and/or Dubinsky fit in the Canucks lineup?

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11-04-2012, 03:29 AM
  #703
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I wouldn't mind Gagner, but Scurr does bring up a good point, do we really need to get softer? Then again, you can't get that picky because teams may not have exactly what you seek, so the options are you take a softer player with skill for the 3C role or make no deal at all if there are no options there.

Like I said, I wouldn't mind seeing what Gagner could do in a 3C role, but do we use his line as a shutdown line, or a sheltered line, like what AV did with Hodgson? I think Gagner flanked by Higgins/Hansen or whoever, may be able to handle weaker 2nd lines, but it does take 3/3 to create a solid enough shutdown line, not 2/3'rds.

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11-04-2012, 03:33 AM
  #704
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Originally Posted by kurt View Post
Is Columbus comfortable with their crease at all? Would Prospal and/or Dubinsky fit in the Canucks lineup?
I'd for sure like to have Dubinsky, but then again, what does he bring to the Canucks that we need? Toughness, accompanied by some scoring skill and good defensive play. Dubinsky may be a 2nd/3rd line tweener on our team though, and we need a legit 1st/2nd line player for Kesler. I think Dubinsky would be a good player when flanked by other good players. Dubinsky can play C too, but that's a pretty expensive 3C.

Luongo would have to approve to go to CBJ however, and the chances of that I think are fairly slim. If you're implying Schneider goes to CBJ, the starting point is Johansen or bust.

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11-04-2012, 04:36 AM
  #705
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Originally Posted by PG Canuck View Post
I wouldn't mind Gagner, but Scurr does bring up a good point, do we really need to get softer? Then again, you can't get that picky because teams may not have exactly what you seek, so the options are you take a softer player with skill for the 3C role or make no deal at all if there are no options there.

Like I said, I wouldn't mind seeing what Gagner could do in a 3C role, but do we use his line as a shutdown line, or a sheltered line, like what AV did with Hodgson? I think Gagner flanked by Higgins/Hansen or whoever, may be able to handle weaker 2nd lines, but it does take 3/3 to create a solid enough shutdown line, not 2/3'rds.
Especially when it's the centre who handles the bulk of the defensive responsibilities for his line when they're out on the ice. Doesn't matter if you have good 2-way wingers on your flank, you're still going to suffer if your center isn't good in his own end.


But of course, it also all depends on how the Nucks are planning to use the 3rd line when hockey resumes. Do they plan to start the 3rd line in their own zone every time the other team's top forwards are sent out? i.e the 'enabling role' that Canucks Army likes to call it by.


If they want to give it some more offensive punch, Kesler may take up his old shutdown-first role again, as he's fully capable of doing and slot Schroeder in as 3C. But if not, then what?


So short of any centre who's of the calibre of Malhotra circa 2010-11, you might not be able to replicate that specialized zone start strategy with that line. Unless you get Grabovski via trade, as he has very strong possession numbers IIRC and could instantly transform our 3rd line into an actual 3rd scoring line that can also check ala Dave Bolland.


Which is one reason why I'd like us to spread the talent throughout the top 9, instead of focusing purely on a top 6 winger and stacking the first 2 lines. When teams are trying to shut down 2 scoring lines, you overwhelm them with 3. DET, PIT, CHI, BOS, LAK all beat teams by sending wave after wave of strong forward lines who all could score, and wearing down opposition D's - not necessarily by solely having an elite 1st and 2nd line. All those Cup winners were deep up front. It doesn't hurt to have an elite 1st line like the Wings, Pens and Hawks did, but all those teams had very good 2nd and 3rd lines too.


Look at BOS and LAK especially - their forward group was more deep than just 'elite'. Remember how a lot of posters were scoffing at the Bruins' forward group just before the SCF, saying they didn't have any elite forwards, and nobody was scared of the Kings' offense at first glance of their numbers? You don't realize it though until it actually burns your team...


Last edited by vanuck: 11-04-2012 at 04:48 AM.
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11-04-2012, 04:44 AM
  #706
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
They're going to be scary anyways. Too much talent on that team to be this bad for much longer...


Schneider is a no go for me.


Why do you think they trade Eberle before Yakupov? They just handed him a 6m per contract. I think it's the other way around.
Tough call, it could be either. I like Yak though, true goal scorer and his deal is cheaper, while Eberle would be a sell high. My bias, other might differ.

So many good centres this year I can see the Oilers taking it easy again and aiming for another quality pick.


Last edited by me2: 11-04-2012 at 04:54 AM.
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11-04-2012, 12:42 PM
  #707
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
I really like Gagner but not for us. Hank and Gagner as top 3 centres is too soft. Chicago should pick up Gagner if he's available.

I'm surprised you like MPS, his upside is basically Kulemin isn't it?.
Sam Gagner is only 23 and has put up 5 straight 40 point seasons. I take him over Bozak 100 times out of 100 opportunities. His relative CORSI also blows Bozak out of the water, suggesting he's a better defensive center than Bozak (although you won't hear me claiming he's great defensively either, unlike how you've claimed Bozak was great defensively before being proven wrong). Gagner is also someone who we could potentially plug into our top 6 if he has chemistry with Kesler, or he could play the 3C spot. Think of Gagner as us bringing back Hodgson without his dad's whining.

I guess I value MPS higher than you since I could see him developing into a 25-30 goal winger. I also know the difference between MPS and Kulemin because they are not even close to being the same player. MPS has good size but as of yet he hasn't really used it.

Another player I like is Teemu Hartikainen and wouldn't mind incorporating him into the deal somewhere. He's got pretty good size, he's got a bit of a scoring touch, and he plays gritty. If you're talking about a player who's more similar to Kulemin I would think it's Hartikainen. Having said that, I think Hartikainen has a higher ceiling than Kulemin, and isn't someone we would be attempting to plug into our top 6 right away.

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Old
11-04-2012, 12:44 PM
  #708
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PG Canuck View Post
I wouldn't mind Gagner, but Scurr does bring up a good point, do we really need to get softer? Then again, you can't get that picky because teams may not have exactly what you seek, so the options are you take a softer player with skill for the 3C role or make no deal at all if there are no options there.

Like I said, I wouldn't mind seeing what Gagner could do in a 3C role, but do we use his line as a shutdown line, or a sheltered line, like what AV did with Hodgson? I think Gagner flanked by Higgins/Hansen or whoever, may be able to handle weaker 2nd lines, but it does take 3/3 to create a solid enough shutdown line, not 2/3'rds.
We tried going with two scoring lines, a checking line, and a fourth line, and it hasn't worked for us. Our top two scoring lines don't score with enough consistency in the playoffs that we can go this route, so I would argue that getting someone like Gagner, even if he's running a third scoring line, would be beneficial and address what we need.

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Old
11-04-2012, 01:44 PM
  #709
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
If I were the GM, I would trade Luongo to whoever had the best offer, regardless of division. Our goal is to win, not make other teams lose.
I'm sure that's how management thinks too but there is NO harm claiming you are reluctant to trade within the division if you think you can get a better offer right?

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11-04-2012, 01:47 PM
  #710
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Originally Posted by YogiCanucks View Post
I'm sure that's how management thinks too but there is NO harm claiming you are reluctant to trade within the division if you think you can get a better offer right?
Sure, but at the same time I'm not going to look at Edmonton and say "It's RNH AND Yakupov for Luongo or else I'm going to trade him for Bozak. I don't care you're offering me Eberle for Luongo, you're in our division so we prefer Bozak" like some people have suggested. It's ridiculous.

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11-04-2012, 01:52 PM
  #711
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
Sure, but at the same time I'm not going to look at Edmonton and say "It's RNH AND Yakupov for Luongo or else I'm going to trade him for Bozak. I don't care you're offering me Eberle for Luongo, you're in our division so we prefer Bozak" like some people have suggested. It's ridiculous.
Well that's an extremist example....

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11-04-2012, 01:58 PM
  #712
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The longer this lockout lasts, and the more I see the same crappy knocks against Luongo in the main threads, and the more I see counterarguments that prove the criticisms are unfounded, the more I hope many of the Russian/European goalies like Bobrovsky or Bryzgalov or Neuvirth or Varlmov stay overseas and we get some different teams in the mix.

Columbus still interests me, but they seem unwilling/unable to give what I'd want.

Toronto, Florida and now Edmonton seem deadset on offering us garbage, in Floridas case because the need isn't there.

Sigh...please come back NHL hockey, we miss you.

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11-04-2012, 02:08 PM
  #713
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Columbus still interests me, but they seem unwilling/unable to give what I'd want.

Toronto, Florida and now Edmonton seem deadset on offering us garbage, in Floridas case because the need isn't there.
Do they actually? We don't know actually what any of these teams are offering. Its important to not confuse what fans here on HFBoard say with what actually is said behind closed doors. What Edmonton fanboy #3 or Torontard #4 want to give up doesn't matter.


Last edited by Wisp: 11-04-2012 at 02:15 PM.
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11-04-2012, 02:12 PM
  #714
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Every trade offer has been speculation. Even the leaf one. So while the EDM one is a stretch, I'd personally say its probably Atleast fun to discuss.

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11-04-2012, 02:15 PM
  #715
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Sure, just saying there's no reason to mope about us not getting what we want at this point, especially when the moping is based on speculation.

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11-04-2012, 02:17 PM
  #716
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I'm still holding out for trading one of the two goalies for Ryan Johansen. Despite being rushed into the Columbus organization, he would look great in a couple years flanked by Kassian and Jensen. That line would be just a stone or two away from 700 pounds.

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11-04-2012, 02:20 PM
  #717
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I doubt they're eager to part with him after losing Nash.

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11-04-2012, 02:23 PM
  #718
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Originally Posted by Elbows of Bure View Post
I'm still holding out for trading one of the two goalies for Ryan Johansen. Despite being rushed into the Columbus organization, he would look great in a couple years flanked by Kassian and Jensen. That line would be just a stone or two away from 700 pounds.
Definitely an interesting target as those boys will need a strong play making C. I can't see Luongo waiving to go to Columbus, so it would have to be Schneids. Fortunately, Nucks have great G prospects, so I would be ok to trade Schneids for a good package. Lack could backup Lu and hopefully develop like Cory did.

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11-04-2012, 02:33 PM
  #719
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lol @ anyone taking this whole soap opera seriously for the last three months, and that's being generous.
+1. This thread needs to die.

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11-04-2012, 02:39 PM
  #720
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
Sure, but at the same time I'm not going to look at Edmonton and say "It's RNH AND Yakupov for Luongo or else I'm going to trade him for Bozak. I don't care you're offering me Eberle for Luongo, you're in our division so we prefer Bozak" like some people have suggested. It's ridiculous.
which edmonton fan is offering any of the big 4 or schultz?

If the two offers were similar i would rather send Luongo east, and of course I hope we take the best deal possible (from anywhere). It's ridiculous to assume that the value will be that different between Edmonton and Toronto.

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11-04-2012, 03:37 PM
  #721
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edit: wrong thread

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11-04-2012, 03:57 PM
  #722
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Originally Posted by Figz14 View Post
+1. This thread needs to die.
Agreed. Everything that has been said is all that you can say. I'm at least done with this thread till we get some actual information. Probably after the lockout ends whenever that is.

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11-04-2012, 03:59 PM
  #723
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+1. This thread needs to die.
It can't though, so many people are interested in the subject that even when there is nothing else to add to the discussion, we basically start all over again.

Hence I add music into the thread to spice up some new talk.

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11-04-2012, 04:40 PM
  #724
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Do they actually? We don't know actually what any of these teams are offering. Its important to not confuse what fans here on HFBoard say with what actually is said behind closed doors. What Edmonton fanboy #3 or Torontard #4 want to give up doesn't matter.
Sorry, you're correct, it's the fans on HF, not the teams.

Well Toronto wants to focus around Bozak, not garbage, but not anywhere close to what I'd trade Lu for.

Florida is still Upshall/Kopecky, Jovo and a low tier (by their standards) prospect.

Edmonton says no big 4, no Schultz, no Klefbom, no Hemsky, no Gagner, no Smyth (NMC), no Whitney....who's left?

Columbus just moved Nash for a few of the pieces I'd be looking at, plus with Carter getting Voracek, and his removal from the team, Brassard and Umberger and Prospal (NMC), and others are either only semi interesting to me, or are not being moved for an upgrade now (ie Johansen, Savard, Murray).

Teams corresponding to the goalies I've mentioned haven't had their proposals beaten to death...

...yet if this lockout doesn't end.

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11-04-2012, 04:51 PM
  #725
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His relative CORSI also blows Bozak out of the water, suggesting he's a better defensive center than Bozak (although you won't hear me claiming he's great defensively either, unlike how you've claimed Bozak was great defensively before being proven wrong).
You're putting words in my mouth. Whatever helps you sleep at night.

Quote:
Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
I guess I value MPS higher than you since I could see him developing into a 25-30 goal winger. I also know the difference between MPS and Kulemin because they are not even close to being the same player. MPS has good size but as of yet he hasn't really used it.
Interesting that you don't like Frattin, who has scored at every level, but you think MPS is going to magically turn into a goal scorer.

Kulemin and MPS are both big guys, good skaters, that aren't physical and will probably have to carve out career's as defensive players because they aren't going to be consistent scorers. Pretty similar to me.

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