HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

top 3 Defender to Colorado.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
11-04-2012, 02:08 PM
  #101
mytor4*
 
mytor4*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Country: Canada
Posts: 11,175
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FoppaForsberg View Post
For Stastny, Barrie/Elliott and picks.
Alzner, Hamhuis, Edler, Giordano, Gorges, Vlasic, Burns, Myers, Goligoski, Hamonic, Coburn, would all be acceptable.
So your saying your ok with
Gorges for Stastny, Barrie/Elliott and picks.
I would say Lets make it Stastny and Barrie/Elliott or picks
Have to let my Habs family answer this one.

mytor4* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2012, 02:27 PM
  #102
HockeyFan100
Welcome to COL!
 
HockeyFan100's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,659
vCash: 500
Don't really need Geogres, Avs already got a top 5 shotblocker in the NHL.

HockeyFan100 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2012, 02:31 PM
  #103
TheJuxtaposer
#Shorks
 
TheJuxtaposer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: San Diego, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 26,222
vCash: 567
Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyFan100 View Post
Don't really need Geogres, Avs already got a top 5 shotblocker in the NHL.
Here's the caveat: Being a top shot-blocker generally either means you're not that great defensively, or you're on a very bad defensive team. Why? Defense is all about shot-suppression, and if you have to block tons and tons of shots, you aren't doing a great job of shot-suppression. Gorges belongs to the 2nd category. Zanon? The former.

TheJuxtaposer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2012, 02:35 PM
  #104
Avs44
Registered User
 
Avs44's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Country: United States
Posts: 7,572
vCash: 3319
Quote:
Originally Posted by topdog View Post
So your saying your ok with
Gorges for Stastny, Barrie/Elliott and picks.
I would say Lets make it Stastny and Barrie/Elliott or picks
Have to let my Habs family answer this one.
I certainly would not. I would consider Stastny+Barrie/Elliot for Hamhuis, Alzner, Burns, Myers, and Hamonic, and maybe more for some of those, but would certainly not do that for guys like Gorges/Goligoski.

Avs44 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2012, 02:35 PM
  #105
Ivan13
Avs/Habs fan
 
Ivan13's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Zagreb
Country: Croatia
Posts: 13,478
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by topdog View Post
So your saying your ok with
Gorges for Stastny, Barrie/Elliott and picks.
I would say Lets make it Stastny and Barrie/Elliott or picks
Have to let my Habs family answer this one.
Way too much.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyFan100 View Post
Don't really need Geogres, Avs already got a top 5 shotblocker in the NHL.

Ivan13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2012, 02:39 PM
  #106
Avs44
Registered User
 
Avs44's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Country: United States
Posts: 7,572
vCash: 3319
Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyFan100 View Post
Don't really need Geogres, Avs already got a top 5 shotblocker in the NHL.
Some of your comments...nevermind.



I would absolutely love Gorges on the Avs. Saying we don't need him because we already have a top 5 shotblocker is just I would love Gorges. Just not at that price.

Avs44 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2012, 03:07 PM
  #107
JayKing
Go Habs Go
 
JayKing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,256
vCash: 390
Gorges + Eller for Stasny + Elliott + 2nd ?

JayKing is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2012, 03:09 PM
  #108
CB Joe
Registered User
 
CB Joe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,479
vCash: 496
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmdubois585 View Post
Gorges + Eller for Stasny + Elliott + 2nd ?
This has got to be one of the worst proposals I've read in months.

CB Joe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2012, 03:21 PM
  #109
Sojourn
Global Moderator
Where's the kaboom?
 
Sojourn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 24,322
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
Here's the caveat: Being a top shot-blocker generally either means you're not that great defensively, or you're on a very bad defensive team. Why? Defense is all about shot-suppression, and if you have to block tons and tons of shots, you aren't doing a great job of shot-suppression. Gorges belongs to the 2nd category. Zanon? The former.
I must have been taught defense differently than you. Defense is about suppressing scoring opportunities... not suppressing shots.

Sojourn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2012, 03:26 PM
  #110
BrickAHL
#NotUs
 
BrickAHL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,819
vCash: 432
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmdubois585 View Post
Gorges + Eller for Stasny + Elliott + 2nd ?
No chance.

BrickAHL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2012, 03:29 PM
  #111
TheJuxtaposer
#Shorks
 
TheJuxtaposer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: San Diego, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 26,222
vCash: 567
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sojourn View Post
I must have been taught defense differently than you. Defense is about suppressing scoring opportunities... not suppressing shots.
Scoring opportunities have an extremely high correlation with shots.

TheJuxtaposer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2012, 03:30 PM
  #112
FoppaForsberg*
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Country: Canada
Posts: 534
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by topdog View Post
So your saying your ok with
Gorges for Stastny, Barrie/Elliott and picks.
I would say Lets make it Stastny and Barrie/Elliott or picks
Have to let my Habs family answer this one.
I was more so saying that I'd be willing to give up those players for any of the players I listed, not necessarily all 3 of them. For example for Gorges I wouldn't give up all 3, more something like Stastny + 2nd rounder.

FoppaForsberg* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2012, 03:32 PM
  #113
Avs44
Registered User
 
Avs44's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Country: United States
Posts: 7,572
vCash: 3319
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmdubois585 View Post
Gorges + Eller for Stasny + Elliott + 2nd ?
No. Certainly not.

Avs44 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2012, 03:35 PM
  #114
mytor4*
 
mytor4*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Country: Canada
Posts: 11,175
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avs44 View Post
I certainly would not. I would consider Stastny+Barrie/Elliot for Hamhuis, Alzner, Burns, Myers, and Hamonic, and maybe more for some of those, but would certainly not do that for guys like Gorges/Goligoski.
Look the OP who's a Colorado fan suggested Gorge would be OK.
I think Gorges for what he's willing to give up is an under payment.
More like Gorges straight up for Stastny would be a lot more closer.
Or maybe Gorges and Pleks for Statsny and Barrie/Elliot and 2nd rd pick.

mytor4* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2012, 03:38 PM
  #115
Sojourn
Global Moderator
Where's the kaboom?
 
Sojourn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 24,322
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
Scoring opportunities have an extremely high correlation with shots.
It's still not the same thing. Look at the 2009 San Jose vs. Anaheim series. San Jose took plenty of shots. They had far less actual scoring opportunities. Anaheim was more than willing to let San Jose take shots from bad angles, and from the blue line, because they just weren't particularly dangerous.

You said blocking a lot of shots implies poor defense, and that's not true. Volchenkov was the top shot blocker in the 2007 playoffs, and he was quite good at it. The key was that he blocked the important shots. When he tried to block all the shots, he got himself into trouble. McDonagh and Girardi were two of the top shot blockers last season. Does that mean they weren't good defensively, or that New York wasn't good defensively? I'd argue that some of their ability defensively stemmed from blocking shots.

Sojourn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2012, 03:39 PM
  #116
Avs44
Registered User
 
Avs44's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Country: United States
Posts: 7,572
vCash: 3319
Quote:
Originally Posted by topdog View Post
Look the OP who's a Colorado fan suggested Gorge would be OK.
I think Gorges for what he's willing to give up is an under payment.
More like Gorges straight up for Stastny would be a lot more closer.
Or maybe Gorges and Pleks for Statsny and Barrie/Elliot and 2nd rd pick.
One fan said that. The rest allsaid no. Plek+Gorges for Stastny+Barri/Elliot+2nd I would be interested in, but I don't think your fellow MTL fans would like that.


Last edited by Avs44: 11-04-2012 at 03:50 PM.
Avs44 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2012, 03:42 PM
  #117
FoppaForsberg*
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Country: Canada
Posts: 534
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by topdog View Post
Look the OP who's a Colorado fan suggested Gorge would be OK.
I think Gorges for what he's willing to give up is an under payment.
More like Gorges straight up for Stastny would be a lot more closer.
Or maybe Gorges and Pleks for Statsny and Barrie/Elliot and 2nd rd pick.
I didn't necessarily mean all 3 have to be included.
If I did include all 3 i'd have to be something like Gorges, Plekance + 2nd round pick for Stastny and Elliott. Although I'm still not sure i'd do it, simply because Gorges doesn't have much offense to his game.

FoppaForsberg* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2012, 03:46 PM
  #118
mytor4*
 
mytor4*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Country: Canada
Posts: 11,175
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avs44 View Post
One fan said that. The rest allsaid no. Plek+Gorges for Stastny+Barri/Elliot+2nd I would be very interested in, but I don't think you fellow MTL fans would like that.
Well your probably right.Gorges is a needed asset in Habland.
Maybe something around Pleks ++ for Stastny would work for both teams? yes /no

mytor4* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2012, 03:48 PM
  #119
mytor4*
 
mytor4*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Country: Canada
Posts: 11,175
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FoppaForsberg View Post
I didn't necessarily mean all 3 have to be included.
If I did include all 3 i'd have to be something like Gorges, Plekance + 2nd round pick for Stastny and Elliott. Although I'm still not sure i'd do it, simply because Gorges doesn't have much offense to his game.
Actually i believe it's Colorado that would be adding the draft pick in that scenero not the Habs and i'm not sure the Habs would do it because it would kill our team defensively.

mytor4* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2012, 03:49 PM
  #120
BrickAHL
#NotUs
 
BrickAHL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,819
vCash: 432
Quote:
Originally Posted by topdog View Post
Well your probably right.Gorges is a needed asset in Habland.
Maybe something around Pleks ++ for Stastny would work for both teams? yes /no
Depends on who the "++" is.

BrickAHL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2012, 04:00 PM
  #121
TheJuxtaposer
#Shorks
 
TheJuxtaposer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: San Diego, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 26,222
vCash: 567
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sojourn View Post
It's still not the same thing. Look at the 2009 San Jose vs. Anaheim series. San Jose took plenty of shots. They had far less actual scoring opportunities. Anaheim was more than willing to let San Jose take shots from bad angles, and from the blue line, because they just weren't particularly dangerous.
Were you keeping track of scoring chances? Because I seem to remember a fair amount of scoring chances. I remember Hiller playing like a man possessed, stopping shots that were seemingly already in the net. I remember Nabokov letting in some really weak goals.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sojourn View Post
You said blocking a lot of shots implies poor defense, and that's not true. Volchenkov was the top shot blocker in the 2007 playoffs, and he was quite good at it. The key was that he blocked the important shots. When he tried to block all the shots, he got himself into trouble. McDonagh and Girardi were two of the top shot blockers last season. Does that mean they weren't good defensively, or that New York wasn't good defensively? I'd argue that some of their ability defensively stemmed from blocking shots.
Obviously there are exceptions, but to be honest, I don't think the Rangers were that good a team (and I'll leave it at that because Rangers fans love to jump down my throat). But Girardi and McDonagh are exceptions.

Let's take a look at the top10 shotblocking defensemen from last season:

1. Gorges. Poor defensive team.
2. Clark. Horrible defensive team/poor defensive player
3. Beauchemin. Horrible defensive team.
4. Allen. Poor defensive team.
5. Girardi. Exception.
6. MacDonald. Horrible defensive team.
7. Smid. Horrible defensive team.
8. McDonagh. Exception.
9. M. Stuart. Horrible defensive team.
10. Kronwall. Below average defensive team/average defensively.

There's a trend.

TheJuxtaposer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2012, 04:16 PM
  #122
JayKing
Go Habs Go
 
JayKing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,256
vCash: 390
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avs44 View Post
No. Certainly not.
OP wasn't clear. Normally I wouldn't have asked that for Gorges, but OP made it sound like he'd be willing to. My mistake

JayKing is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2012, 04:20 PM
  #123
FoppaForsberg*
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Country: Canada
Posts: 534
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmdubois585 View Post
OP wasn't clear. Normally I wouldn't have asked that for Gorges, but OP made it sound like he'd be willing to. My mistake
Fixed.

Mod Edit: Referring to his own OP being updated.


Last edited by spiny norman: 11-04-2012 at 04:37 PM. Reason: clarification
FoppaForsberg* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2012, 04:35 PM
  #124
mytor4*
 
mytor4*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Country: Canada
Posts: 11,175
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrickAHL View Post
Depends on who the "++" is.
++ = Prospect and pick...... Prospect,any forward not named Alex Galchenyuk
Pick would depend on what prospect you end up picking.
if no than What do you see as the ++.

mytor4* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2012, 04:42 PM
  #125
Avs44
Registered User
 
Avs44's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Country: United States
Posts: 7,572
vCash: 3319
Quote:
Originally Posted by topdog View Post
++ = Prospect and pick...... Prospect,any forward not named Alex Galchenyuk
Pick would depend on what prospect you end up picking.
if no than What do you see as the ++.
Honestly, there really is no incentive for us to go from Stastny to Plekanac for a prospect and a pick. We are not rebuilding. Unless we are getting a top pairing LH D, I'm really not interested in moving any of our centers.

Avs44 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:52 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.