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Sven Bärtshi vs Mikael Granlund

View Poll Results: Sven Bärtshi vs Mikael Granlund
Bärtshi 125 40.85%
Granlund 163 53.27%
Same 18 5.88%
Voters: 306. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
11-03-2012, 11:28 PM
  #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loffer View Post
Well, I have watched some AHL live on Abbotsford's games. Baertschi is good and all but, first, he is a winger - and by definition: center > winger. So, first point goes to Granlund. And I think Granlund is a natural center anyway, given his terrific playmaking skills. Secondly, it would be ridiculous if some "random Swiss dude" turned out to be the better one - I mean cmon Switzerland is good in making clocks and chocolate and in alpine skiing and in mountaineering but in hockey hell no! Have they ever even got a medal in any IIHF tournament?? So, how in hell could a "random Swiss dude" be better than Finland's top prospect, Mikael Granlund? That would be the most outlandish thing -- and very annoying, to say the least. It would be same to say that Kopitar is better than Crosby. Fortunately, that cannot be the case, just common sense --> a point to Granlund. Third thing: While Baertschi has already played-- what?-- five NHL games and scored three goals, in everything else Granlund is much more proven, no need to go into details, it's a generally known fact. Baertschi just isn't at his level by any means and hardly will ever be. Also this gives an edge to Granlund. Fourth point: Simply by comparison, Granlund has better tools. You seem to underestimate Granlund's 2way game/defensive play, it's already top-notch for his type of player; and Baertschi is hardly an inch bigger, so, it's nothing. Granlund's only "flaw" is allegedly his skating and while he is no speed demon he has improved a lot and is already fast enough - and Baertschi's skating seems to be overrated, it doesn't look THAT good. In any case, Granlund is as good or better in every other area and his overall skill level is higher. What's most important, he just and simply is the better hockey player no matter how you look at it. He is better now and he has higher upside. And this is the fifth and last point, Granlund's superior understanding of the game becomes evident just by watching both of them playing. It's easy to see that this Baertschi kid's got some serious skill but c'mon Granlund is just another level talent. That kind of mastery cannot be teached.
So cause Granlund is a center and from Finland he's better then the guy who's actually impressed on the NHL level? You talk as if Granlund's the next Crosby, take off the homer glasses.

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11-04-2012, 05:38 AM
  #52
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I'd say it's a very close call, so I'm picking 'same'. Granlund could be at best a decent 2nd line center or a very good 1st/2nd line winger (this is what I see Bärtschi being as well).
In the end it comes down to whose style you prefer, as long as we don't have sufficient data on either one of them on NHL level.

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11-04-2012, 07:24 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by ponder View Post

Also, speaking of Kopitar, he was the first Slovenian to play in the NHL ever. By your flawless logic there's no way he could be better than every single Finnish player right now, but what do you know, he is!
There was some condescending humor in that "random Swiss dude" argument, I agree. But my general point is that even if Granlund and Baertschi were quite equal skillwise etc. - and they may be, there is the "x factor" which gives an edge to Granlund.


Last edited by spiny norman: 11-04-2012 at 04:48 PM. Reason: qep
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11-04-2012, 09:10 AM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loffer View Post
There was some condescending humor in that "random Swiss dude" argument, I agree. But my general point is that even if Granlund and Baertschi were quite equal skillwise etc. - and they may be, there is the "x factor" which gives an edge to Granlund.
Because one is Swiss and the other is Finnish? Makes sense. Take your homer glasses off..

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11-04-2012, 09:30 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by tmurfin View Post
Because one is Swiss and the other is Finnish? Makes sense. Take your homer glasses off..
Not quite. What I mean by this "x factor" is simply what makes a player better than the rest all other things being equal. Maybe it's his "vision" but whatever it is, it's the thing that makes him better/best. It's almost like saying that a player is a better player because he is a better player, he just is although his (other) skills/traits were equal or even worse.

By analogy: Crosby is the best because of the "x factor"; Granlund is better than Baertschi because of the "x factor". Simple and obvious.

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11-04-2012, 09:48 AM
  #56
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Baertschi does everyhing granlund does.
granlund doesnt have svens defensive instincts or physicality.

sven>

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11-04-2012, 10:22 AM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haatley View Post
Baertschi does everyhing granlund does.
granlund doesnt have svens defensive instincts or physicality.

sven>
Actually Granlund is an excellent two-way forward and is great in PK. He also is quite physical. I'll always remember how he destroyed Jukka Hentunen (former regular Finnish NT player) in his first game in HIFK.

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11-04-2012, 10:55 AM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haatley View Post
Baertschi does everyhing granlund does.
granlund doesnt have svens defensive instincts or physicality.

sven>
Granlund has well developed defensive instincts but it's his offensive instincts that make him better.

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11-04-2012, 11:18 AM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loffer View Post
Not quite. What I mean by this "x factor" is simply what makes a player better than the rest all other things being equal. Maybe it's his "vision" but whatever it is, it's the thing that makes him better/best. It's almost like saying that a player is a better player because he is a better player, he just is although his (other) skills/traits were equal or even worse.

By analogy: Crosby is the best because of the "x factor"; Granlund is better than Baertschi because of the "x factor". Simple and obvious.
So what you are saying is Granlund is better but you can't explain why.

Just say you think Granlund is better because you like him. Your saying alot without saying anything. I think Sven has a real "y factor" which Granlund doesn't have so he must be better.


Last edited by TheHudlinator: 11-04-2012 at 11:29 AM.
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11-04-2012, 11:22 AM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loffer View Post
Not quite. What I mean by this "x factor" is simply what makes a player better than the rest all other things being equal. Maybe it's his "vision" but whatever it is, it's the thing that makes him better/best. It's almost like saying that a player is a better player because he is a better player, he just is although his (other) skills/traits were equal or even worse.

By analogy: Crosby is the best because of the "x factor"; Granlund is better than Baertschi because of the "x factor". Simple and obvious.
You make a strong point about talent vs output. Just because you have a better skillset does not mean you will be the better more productive player. I agree a guy like Granlund is such a pure talent it feels like he wastes little of his ability and gets more out of what he has. A good example is Luc Robitallie, based on talent there is no way he should have even been close to a HoF career but he just had the ability to find the puck and finish and it's not something you can see unless the bullets are flying. Granlund i would agree does have that "it" factor where he just seems like a special player who will be everything he can be with his skillset.

I would say some of your other points about nationality seem rather dubious.

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11-04-2012, 11:24 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by tmurfin View Post
Take your homer glasses off..
the irony

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11-04-2012, 11:43 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by MiGician View Post
Actually Granlund is an excellent two-way forward and is great in PK. He also is quite physical. I'll always remember how he destroyed Jukka Hentunen (former regular Finnish NT player) in his first game in HIFK.
I didnt see much of granlund before he came to north america. but from.what id heard i rated him a better prospect than sven. but after watching a lot of ahl games this season and seeing both of them against the same competition, i take baertschi as hes very close to granlund offensively but much better defensively.

grandlund hasnt thrown his body around much this season.

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11-04-2012, 12:00 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by TheGleninator View Post
So what you are saying is Granlund is better but you can't explain why.

Just say you think Granlund is better because you like him. Your saying alot without saying anything. I think Sven has a real "y factor" which Granlund doesn't have so he must be better.
1) Well, it's a bit of a mystery why Granlund is so good as he is. He just is.

2) No, I don't think Granlund is better because I like him, rather I like him because hes better (than I ever expected him to be). The thing is I did NOT like him initially. His skillset didn't impress me that much and his skating looked so heavy and difficult as if he had skated in tar or mud. But that is history. He has improved in all areas but that's not the point - he just is really good regardless, and it's his special talent, the "x factor", which makes him so good, better and more than the "sum of his parts" - and better than Baertschi.

Or as Eskimo44 puts it:

Quote:
You make a strong point about talent vs output. Just because you have a better skillset does not mean you will be the better more productive player. I agree a guy like Granlund is such a pure talent it feels like he wastes little of his ability and gets more out of what he has. A good example is Luc Robitallie, based on talent there is no way he should have even been close to a HoF career but he just had the ability to find the puck and finish and it's not something you can see unless the bullets are flying. Granlund i would agree does have that "it" factor where he just seems like a special player who will be everything he can be with his skillset.

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11-04-2012, 12:07 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loffer View Post
1) Well, it's a bit of a mystery why Granlund is so good as he is. He just is.

2) No, I don't think Granlund is better because I like him, rather I like him because hes better (than I ever expected him to be). The thing is I did NOT like him initially. His skillset didn't impress me that much and his skating looked so heavy and difficult as if he had skated in tar or mud. But that is history. He has improved in all areas but that's not the point - he just is really good regardless, and it's his special talent, the "x factor", which makes him so good, better and more than the "sum of his parts" - and better than Baertschi.


Or as Eskimo44 puts it:
There is no x factor they have a similar skill set offensively and Sven is better defensively not by alot but he is and is almost a year younger so I think its a toss up either way but to say it is a easy to choose either like your first post side is ridiculous.

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11-04-2012, 12:08 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Eskimo44 View Post
the irony
Not really sure how that's ironic, I didn't say Sven is superior, although I would take Sven because of his defensive game and hard work. But they are very close talent wise, Granlund definately has the edge offensively.

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11-04-2012, 12:19 PM
  #66
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who would've thought people would be arguing about a Flames prospect being on the same level as one of the most coveted prospect in hockey

it's a good day

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11-04-2012, 01:34 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Noori View Post
And I laughed at Baertschi = Ma. Granlund. He's small, doesn't play physical, and is regressing in his second year in the SM-Liiga. Not the best pick by the Flames.
They look pretty even. Can you tell one from another?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P62pqnanq5A

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11-04-2012, 01:52 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Loffer View Post
They look pretty even. Can you tell one from another?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P62pqnanq5A
A YouTube vid of them shooting around from a distance ? Nice.. They aren't alike, I like Ma. Granlund but he is definately a notch or two below Sven and Mi.

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11-04-2012, 02:12 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by tmurfin View Post
A YouTube vid of them shooting around from a distance ? Nice.. They aren't alike, I like Ma. Granlund but he is definately a notch or two below Sven and Mi.
But speaking of how "small" Ma. Granlund is - he is the same height 5'11'' as Baertschi though he should bulk up a bit - so, he isn't so "small" compared to Baertschi.

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11-04-2012, 02:50 PM
  #70
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litte over 7 months older = "HE'S A YEAR OLDER OF COURSE HE'S BETTER"

They are both born in 1992, 7 months apart for crying out loud.

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11-04-2012, 03:03 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by jepjepjoo View Post
litte over 7 months older = "HE'S A YEAR OLDER OF COURSE HE'S BETTER"

They are both born in 1992, 7 months apart for crying out loud.
Not one person has said that, but when we are talking about 20 year olds 7 months can make a fairly big difference.

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11-04-2012, 03:24 PM
  #72
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Not one person has said that, but when we are talking about 20 year olds 7 months can make a fairly big difference.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ponder View Post
Baertschi, on the other hand, I have few concerns about, his game seems tailor made for the NHL, and his upside is really high too. I don't expect Baertschi to score quite as well as Granlund from day 1, he's a year younger with MUCH less pro hockey experience,...
Seven months is next to nothing. What's more important is the same year of birth.

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11-04-2012, 03:40 PM
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ponder View Post
Granlund is an undersized centre with mediocre defensive play
I agree on skating but how is Granlund "mediocre" defensively? He's one of the best takeaway-machines you'll see and is very reliable in his own end.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Haatley View Post
Baertschi does everyhing granlund does.
granlund doesnt have svens defensive instincts or physicality
I don't think Bärtschi has quite the same playmaking-abilities that Granlund has. Mikke's style of playmaking is almost unique, he's master at drawing defensive players towards him and then make a perfect pass to who ever's left open. Sven has the physicality and skating, tho.


Last edited by urho: 11-04-2012 at 03:50 PM.
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11-04-2012, 04:14 PM
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loffer View Post
But speaking of how "small" Ma. Granlund is - he is the same height 5'11'' as Baertschi though he should bulk up a bit - so, he isn't so "small" compared to Baertschi.
Baertschi is thick, 190 lbs +. He has a good 25 pounds on Ma. Granlund. So yes, he is bigger.

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11-04-2012, 04:16 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by Loffer View Post
Seven months is next to nothing. What's more important is the same year of birth.
Yes that poster said that a year difference is a factor not the sole reason he thinks Sven is better. Also there is 60% of a year between the two that is not nothing.

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