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Keep Burke or not if it was your choice?

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Yes 155 71.43%
No 62 28.57%
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Old
11-04-2012, 04:51 PM
  #926
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Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Keep in mind the Owners also want to raise the UFA age by at least a couple of years...
One year, and that has not been approved.

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11-04-2012, 04:55 PM
  #927
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Originally Posted by hockeyfanz View Post
Yes along with Biggs, Ross, D'Amigo, Kadri, Colborne and host of others. This is truly the bulk of Mr. Burke's good work while taking reigns according to his loyal fanbase. These guys will be counted on bringing this team out of the depths into contention either by their value as a trade chip or by their contributions to the Blue and White. If not the Leafs are screwed for a long time to come.
+Rielly
+Finn
+Frattin
+Scrivens
+Percy
+Carter
+Komarov
+Blacker

Etc.

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11-04-2012, 04:56 PM
  #928
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Originally Posted by Mess View Post
4 seasons on tanking (bottom 10 finishes) + New CBA (with higher UFA status) + 1/2 roster (12 players needed) of free cap space + lower Cap ceiling =

Your 1013-14 Maple Leafs

JVR --- Colborne -- Kessel
Kadri -- Grabovski --Kulemin
D'Amigo -- McKegg -- Frattin
Komarov -- McClement -- Brown

Phaneuf -- Gardiner
Rielly -- Gunnarsson
Liles --- Holzer
Komisarek

Reimer
Scrivens
You act like all of our RFAs and UFAs are instantly gone, and there are going to be no trades or signings before a year from now.


Last edited by ULF_55: 11-04-2012 at 05:57 PM.
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11-04-2012, 04:59 PM
  #929
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Originally Posted by Disgruntled Observer View Post
That team would finish dead last. The only forwards that have had any sort of experience/consistency at the nhl level are Kessel and Grabovski.
The goalies are as unproven as they come.
The defence is the only part that looks like it even belongs in the big leagues. But is still probably pretty mediocre.
So we'll get first overall pick? That's what you want, right?

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11-04-2012, 06:00 PM
  #930
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whydidijoin View Post
You act like all of our RFAs and UFAs are instantly gone, and there are going to be no trades or signings before a year from now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mess View Post
4 seasons on tanking (bottom 10 finishes) + New CBA (with higher UFA status) + 1/2 roster (12 players needed) of free cap space + lower Cap ceiling =

Your 1013-14 Maple Leafs

JVR --- Colborne -- Kessel
Kadri -- Grabovski --Kulemin
D'Amigo -- McKegg -- Frattin
Komarov -- McClement -- Brown

Phaneuf -- Gardiner
Rielly -- Gunnarsson
Liles --- Holzer
Komisarek

Reimer
Scrivens
He's also suggesting that the prospects become NHL players.

Colborn, Kadri, D'Amigo, McKegg, Komarov are not guaranteed to graduate to the big team.

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He was the Leafs' leading scorer in the 196364, 196667 and 196970 seasons, and the team's top goal scorer in 197071 and 197273. Keon was considered one of the fastest skaters in the NHL, and one of the best defensive forwards of his era.[3] He would usually play against the opposing team's top centre, and developed a reputation for neutralizing some of the league's top scorers. In 197071, he scored eight shorthanded goals, setting an NHL record.
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11-04-2012, 06:13 PM
  #931
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Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
He's also suggesting that the prospects become NHL players.

Colborn, Kadri, D'Amigo, McKegg, Komarov are not guaranteed to graduate to the big team.
Not by 2013-2014 at least, especially in the roles he chose, especially considering he left out a bunch of players who will be back.

Which makes his entire post worthless and yet another message of uneducated hate.

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11-04-2012, 07:02 PM
  #932
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Originally Posted by Whydidijoin View Post
Didn't win solely because of them. Great job naming ancients too.
Ok Genius tell me what other GM had a hand in them winning the cup?

Also Lou L .....so you were wrong...

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11-04-2012, 07:03 PM
  #933
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Unless an amazing GM becomes available, I'd keep Burke. I think he's a solid/average quality GM, and unless we're looking at a serious upgrade I'd give him a couple more years to really bring the team together. He's made some very poor moves, but also some very good moves, and I like the approach he's been taking over the last 1.5 seasons or so (trading vets who don't really fit for picks/prospects, keeping our own picks, and generally trying to load up on talented youth).

The one thing I am worried about is him feeling too much pressure to get into the playoffs immediately to avoid being fired. Our core still isn't quite good enough to trade youth for vets in an attempt to win now. If we make classic "win now" moves, we'll probably end up with a team that treadmills in the 7th-10th range in the east, when we should be trying to build a true contender. Honestly, if there is a season this year I hope he leaves the team as is, lets us finish low in the standings for one more year (which I think is likely if we make no changes), so we can finally draft a high end 2-way centre. This draft is stacked with centre talent, there are 4 really excellent centre prospects in MacKinnon, Barkov, Monahan and Lindholm, getting our hands on one of them would do wonders for our future IMO. If we do manage that, THEN we go after a legit #1 goalie, because at that point we'll have a really good core in place.

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11-04-2012, 07:19 PM
  #934
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We will have to make some tough decisions as only two of the following three players will be Leafs 3 years from now.

Dion , Kessel, and Lupul. For me the decision is easy as it would be Dion as we will win nothing with him as our Captain.....players do not and will not follow him. With a significantly lower cap hit we may not be able to afford to keep all 3.

Depends on if we sign a # 1 center and a # 1 goalie.....if not it does not matter. We will not be competitive anyways.

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11-04-2012, 07:27 PM
  #935
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Originally Posted by diceman934 View Post
Ok Genius tell me what other GM had a hand in them winning the cup?

Also Lou L .....so you were wrong...
They still had pieces that were from or made possible by previous GMs. Every team does, because every GM leaves an imprint on their team, be it through players, prospects, or asset value.

The GMs you named are so ancient that I don't care to look up the specifics, but they had help from previous GMs, of varying amounts, be it direct or indirect.

They may have done the work, and made the right deals that led them there, but so did Burke.

The idea that any one GM was the sole reason for any cup win, especially in the modern era, is so incredibly ridiculous. Shows which people look at things in black and white, and which look at things in the big picture.

And to think, you tried to convince me that you were a coach.

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11-04-2012, 07:29 PM
  #936
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Originally Posted by diceman934 View Post
We will have to make some tough decisions as only two of the following three players will be Leafs 3 years from now.

Dion , Kessel, and Lupul. For me the decision is easy as it would be Dion as we will win nothing with him as our Captain.....players do not and will not follow him. With a significantly lower cap hit we may not be able to afford to keep all 3.

Depends on if we sign a # 1 center and a # 1 goalie.....if not it does not matter. We will not be competitive anyways.
And there is no reason or evidence that suggests any of this to be true. In fact, we will likely have all 3 players for years to come.

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11-04-2012, 07:39 PM
  #937
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Originally Posted by Whydidijoin View Post
And there is no reason or evidence that suggests any of this to be true. In fact, we will likely have all 3 players for years to come.
Yes there is a reason to suggest this.....the Cap!

Here are more reasons.

Lupul and his coach did not see eye to eye in the past.
The coach and Dion will have a pissing match as there can only be one bull in the barn.

As well...We may have a hard time signing Kessel after his current contract.....as he may want to experience the playoffs and if we do not make the playoffs this year....good luck with resigning him.

All speculation of course but I provided reasons for this to take place. The cap is not speculation but a reality.

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11-04-2012, 07:49 PM
  #938
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Originally Posted by Whydidijoin View Post
They still had pieces that were from or made possible by previous GMs. Every team does, because every GM leaves an imprint on their team, be it through players, prospects, or asset value.

The GMs you named are so ancient that I don't care to look up the specifics, but they had help from previous GMs, of varying amounts, be it direct or indirect.

They may have done the work, and made the right deals that led them there, but so did Burke.

The idea that any one GM was the sole reason for any cup win, especially in the modern era, is so incredibly ridiculous. Shows which people look at things in black and white, and which look at things in the big picture.

And to think, you tried to convince me that you were a coach.

Well you were wrong as Conn Smythe was the GM of the Leafs from 1927 till 1957*.

We won the cup in the follow years:
1950-51 - Toronto Maple Leafs

1948-49 - Toronto Maple Leafs

1947-48 - Toronto Maple Leafs

1946-47 - Toronto Maple Leafs

1944-45 - Toronto Maple Leafs

1941-42 - Toronto Maple Leafs

1931-32 - Toronto Maple Leafs

You stated that no GM has ever been totally responsibility for winning the cup. You were wrong. There are others as well.

Getting personal and attacking me only shows just what kind of person I'm dealing with.

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11-04-2012, 07:52 PM
  #939
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Originally Posted by diceman934 View Post
Yes there is a reason to suggest this.....the Cap!

Here are more reasons.

Lupul and his coach did not see eye to eye in the past.
The coach and Dion will have a pissing match as there can only be one bull in the barn.

As well...We may have a hard time signing Kessel after his current contract.....as he may want to experience the playoffs and if we do not make the playoffs this year....good luck with resigning him.

All speculation of course but I provided reasons for this to take place. The cap is not speculation but a reality.
The cap is not a problem. We have plenty of space.

Many teams have 3 or more superstars.

Lupul and his coach have gotten over whatever problems they may have had in the past. There is nothing to suggest Phaneuf will not get along with Carlyle. There is nothing that suggests that Kessel will want to leave, even if we miss the playoffs this year and next.

Like most people, he likely sees the good direction this team is going. If being on a good team instantly was the be-all and end-all, he wouldn't have left Boston.

Once again, you are taking random speculation based on nothing and presenting it as reality.

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11-04-2012, 07:54 PM
  #940
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Originally Posted by diceman934 View Post
Well you were wrong as Conn Smythe was the GM of the Leafs from 1927 till 1957*.

We won the cup in the follow years:
1950-51 - Toronto Maple Leafs

1948-49 - Toronto Maple Leafs

1947-48 - Toronto Maple Leafs

1946-47 - Toronto Maple Leafs

1944-45 - Toronto Maple Leafs

1941-42 - Toronto Maple Leafs

1931-32 - Toronto Maple Leafs

You stated that no GM has ever been totally responsibility for winning the cup. You were wrong. There are others as well.

Getting personal and attacking me only shows just what kind of person I'm dealing with.
He is still not totally responsible. Mostly responsible yes, but outcomes can indirectly come of a result of something done even 30 years in the past.

The fact that you are pointing to a GM from 60-90 years ago who was GM for 30 years also says it all. Even if it was all him, it is completely irrelevant to the discussion.

And I am not attacking you. I just don't appreciate you using lies to somehow back up any point you think you have.

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11-04-2012, 08:08 PM
  #941
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Originally Posted by Whydidijoin View Post
He is still not totally responsible. Mostly responsible yes, but outcomes can indirectly come of a result of something done even 30 years in the past.

The fact that you are pointing to a GM from 60-90 years ago who was GM for 30 years also says it all. Even if it was all him, it is completely irrelevant to the discussion.

And I am not attacking you. I just don't appreciate you using lies to somehow back up any point you think you have.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whydidijoin View Post
No team has ever won solely because of one GM.
You posted the above. I proved you wrong.....you insulted me because I did so....and insulted me again when accusing me of lying....you have painted a very nice picture of yourself and your character.

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11-04-2012, 08:12 PM
  #942
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Originally Posted by diceman934 View Post
You posted the above. I proved you wrong.....you insulted me because I did so....and insulted me again when accusing me of lying....you have painted a very nice picture of yourself and your character.
You didn't prove anything, and even if you did, it is in a context that is irrelevant to my point.

Accusing a liar of lying doesn't paint me in a bad light. It paints you in a bad light. I don't appreciate children trying to play me for a fool because they can't use actual facts to support their opinions.

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11-04-2012, 08:14 PM
  #943
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Originally Posted by Whydidijoin View Post
He is still not totally responsible. Mostly responsible yes, but outcomes can indirectly come of a result of something done even 30 years in the past.

The fact that you are pointing to a GM from 60-90 years ago who was GM for 30 years also says it all. Even if it was all him, it is completely irrelevant to the discussion.

And I am not attacking you. I just don't appreciate you using lies to somehow back up any point you think you have.
Glen Sather was Edmonton GM for 20 years and won 5 cups. Why do you try to spin facts?

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11-04-2012, 08:18 PM
  #944
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Originally Posted by Whydidijoin View Post
You didn't prove anything, and even if you did, it is in a context that is irrelevant to my point.

Accusing a liar of lying doesn't paint me in a bad light. It paints you in a bad light. I don't appreciate children trying to play me for a fool because they can't use actual facts to support their opinions.
Here's the problem.

You are trying to use history to prove Burke is worth it but when history is used to prove your claims incorrect you start the insults.

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11-04-2012, 08:34 PM
  #945
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Originally Posted by Whydidijoin View Post
You didn't prove anything, and even if you did, it is in a context that is irrelevant to my point.

Accusing a liar of lying doesn't paint me in a bad light. It paints you in a bad light. I don't appreciate children trying to play me for a fool because they can't use actual facts to support their opinions.


I used facts ..... and you lacked them.....yet I'm the liar.

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11-04-2012, 08:48 PM
  #946
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Originally Posted by ponder View Post
Unless an amazing GM becomes available, I'd keep Burke. I think he's a solid/average quality GM, and unless we're looking at a serious upgrade I'd give him a couple more years to really bring the team together. He's made some very poor moves, but also some very good moves, and I like the approach he's been taking over the last 1.5 seasons or so (trading vets who don't really fit for picks/prospects, keeping our own picks, and generally trying to load up on talented youth).

The one thing I am worried about is him feeling too much pressure to get into the playoffs immediately to avoid being fired. Our core still isn't quite good enough to trade youth for vets in an attempt to win now. If we make classic "win now" moves, we'll probably end up with a team that treadmills in the 7th-10th range in the east, when we should be trying to build a true contender. Honestly, if there is a season this year I hope he leaves the team as is, lets us finish low in the standings for one more year (which I think is likely if we make no changes), so we can finally draft a high end 2-way centre. This draft is stacked with centre talent, there are 4 really excellent centre prospects in MacKinnon, Barkov, Monahan and Lindholm, getting our hands on one of them would do wonders for our future IMO. If we do manage that, THEN we go after a legit #1 goalie, because at that point we'll have a really good core in place.
Well said. For as much as people bi*** about him, there are few suitable replacements available.

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11-04-2012, 09:02 PM
  #947
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Glen Sather was Edmonton GM for 20 years and won 5 cups. Why do you try to spin facts?
With Gretzky.

And you're still not getting the point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorade View Post
Here's the problem.

You are trying to use history to prove Burke is worth it but when history is used to prove your claims incorrect you start the insults.
Uhh.. what? Where did I use 90-year old examples to prove that Burke is worth it?

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11-04-2012, 09:04 PM
  #948
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He's also suggesting that the prospects become NHL players.

Colborn, Kadri, D'Amigo, McKegg, Komarov are not guaranteed to graduate to the big team.
Well if fans are going to praise the free cap space created at end of season, then it goes without saying if you're simply going to re-sign your current players to fill it up again, it really a non factor.

Of course I was being factious will all the prospects next year, but with the proposed CBA changes to UFA status the prospect pool is going to become more prominent for all teams.

Also a handful of prospects could be headed to Van City for Luongo so that will remove some I listed.

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11-04-2012, 09:13 PM
  #949
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Well if fans are going to praise the free cap space created at end of season, then it goes without saying if you're simply going to re-sign your current players to fill it up again, it really a non factor.

Of course I was being factious will all the prospects next year, but with the proposed CBA changes to UFA status the prospect pool is going to become more prominent for all teams.

Also a handful of prospects could be headed to Van City for Luongo so that will remove some I listed.
No, it doesn't go without saying that you won't re-sign any of your RFAs or UFAs, or that if you do, cap space means nothing. It means that you get to choose which ones you want, and get rid of the stop-gaps that are no longer needed for other options either in free agency, trades, or internally.

CBA changes that have not been finalized, and even then, only a change of 1 year. Plugging every single prospect into stupid roles and going "Durrr, look at next year's Leafs! Lolol!" is pointless and unneeded hate. You should know better.

As for the Luongo RUMOURS, they are just that. Rumours. Unsupported by any facts, and even if they were, you have no idea what is going the other way.

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11-04-2012, 09:17 PM
  #950
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Glen Sather was Edmonton GM for 20 years and won 5 cups. Why do you try to spin facts?
Was Sather GM when Gretzky joined the team?

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