HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Toronto Maple Leafs
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Keep Burke or not if it was your choice?

View Poll Results: Ye or Na
Yes 155 71.43%
No 62 28.57%
Voters: 217. You may not vote on this poll

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
11-04-2012, 09:20 PM
  #951
Gatorade*
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,579
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whydidijoin View Post
With Gretzky.

And you're still not getting the point.


Uhh.. what? Where did I use 90-year old examples to prove that Burke is worth it?
So what is your point? Explain it to us.

You insult all the rational posters who simply show you that Burke has the worst record in Maple Leaf history while paid the highest.

You insult us while we look at the records and rankings, which are abysmal.

You active this is a great team built by a great GM. The man who said 5 years is for GMs he disrespects.

What makes you so indignant towards those who look at the facts and are not pleased?

Do you think fans of the other 29 teams don't think we are a joke?

Do you think the whole world is against us and therefore we are great but nobody will state it?

What is it about being the only club in 7 years not to even see a playoff game that makes you so confident that you go after the folks who point out that we have been kinda crappy?

Gatorade* is offline  
Old
11-04-2012, 09:27 PM
  #952
Gatorade*
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,579
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by egd27 View Post
Was Sather GM when Gretzky joined the team?
Irrelevant. Skalbania gave Gretzky his choice and he selected the WHA Oilers. Then the WHA folded.

Sather built the oilers, everybody knows this. Why even question it? Do we need to have a discussion now about the hall of fame players he brought in, cups etc?

Gatorade* is offline  
Old
11-04-2012, 09:30 PM
  #953
Whydidijoin*
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,812
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorade View Post
So what is your point? Explain it to us.
That no one GM is ever solely responsible for results in any given year, even in rare cases from almost a century ago, because any move is impacted by previous ones and impacts future ones.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorade View Post
You insult all the rational posters who simply show you that Burke has the worst record in Maple Leaf history while paid the highest.
I don't insult anybody. I point out their faulty points and stances, of which there are plenty.

First one being that his salary is irrelevant, and not even accurate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorade View Post
You insult us while we look at the records and rankings, which are abysmal.
Through black and white glasses, without looking at reality or the big picture.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorade View Post
You active this is a great team built by a great GM. The man who said 5 years is for GMs he disrespects.
I never said this is a great team right now. Didn't even say Burke was a great GM. Burke also never said he disrespects people who take 5+ years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorade View Post
What makes you so indignant towards those who look at the facts and are not pleased?
Your faulty stances don't affect me at all. I am simply here to spread knowledge and actual facts, and what they mean in both the small and big picture.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorade View Post
Do you think fans of the other 29 teams don't think we are a joke?
I don't care at all what fans of other teams think we are, and I know that HFboards is not a representation of widespread opinion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorade View Post
Do you think the whole world is against us and therefore we are great but nobody will state it?
No, I think people like you are against us, and enjoy trolling us.

I don't think we are amazing right now. I think we are on the right path.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorade View Post
What is it about being the only club in 7 years not to even see a playoff game that makes you so confident that you go after the folks who point out that we have been kinda crappy?
Oh, you guys go so much further than to say we have been kinda crappy over the last little while. That is the problem.

The "no playoffs in 7 years" thing also means so very little. It's a hype phrase. Those are the kinds of "facts" people like you like to use, without looking at the actual facts, context, reasons, or the big picture.

Whydidijoin* is offline  
Old
11-04-2012, 09:32 PM
  #954
Whydidijoin*
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,812
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorade View Post
Irrelevant. Skalbania gave Gretzky his choice and he selected the WHA Oilers. Then the WHA folded.
So when talking about having pieces in place, having the best player to ever play the game in place is irrelevant. Right.

Whydidijoin* is offline  
Old
11-04-2012, 09:36 PM
  #955
Gatorade*
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,579
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whydidijoin View Post
So when talking about having pieces in place, having the best player to ever play the game in place is irrelevant. Right.
It's beyond irrelevant when discussing the Leafs. Three posts back you were trying to school me on context.

Gatorade* is offline  
Old
11-04-2012, 09:40 PM
  #956
Gatorade*
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,579
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whydidijoin View Post
So when talking about having pieces in place, having the best player to ever play the game in place is irrelevant. Right.
You really need to read the apology Burke made. The one where he disrespects 5 yr rebuilds. Here's the link.

http://m.thestar.com/sports/leafs/ar...-for-next-year

Gatorade* is offline  
Old
11-04-2012, 09:41 PM
  #957
Whydidijoin*
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,812
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorade View Post
It's beyond irrelevant when discussing the Leafs. Three posts back you were trying to school me on context.
We weren't discussing the Leafs in the first place..

Explain how this is out of context in the discussion about GMs who won without having anything in place or help from past GMs.

Whydidijoin* is offline  
Old
11-04-2012, 09:44 PM
  #958
Gatorade*
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,579
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whydidijoin View Post
We weren't discussing the Leafs in the first place..

Explain how this is out of context in the discussion about GMs who won without having anything in place or help from past GMs.
Two concrete examples have been presented. All you have done is attempt to dance around.

I bet when Burke is fired you will still defend the Leafs and point out his flaws.

Gatorade* is offline  
Old
11-04-2012, 09:44 PM
  #959
Whydidijoin*
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,812
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorade View Post
You really need to read the apology Burke made. The one where he disrespects 5 yr rebuilds. Here's the link.

http://m.thestar.com/sports/leafs/ar...-for-next-year
Lol. He said he doesn't respect GMs who say they have a 5-year plan for the sole purpose of buying themselves 5 years of not having to do anything. He did not say he disrespects rebuilds that take 5 years.

There is a HUGE difference.

Whydidijoin* is offline  
Old
11-04-2012, 09:46 PM
  #960
Whydidijoin*
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,812
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorade View Post
Two concrete examples have been presented. All you have done is attempt to dance around.

I bet when Burke is fired you will still defend the Leafs and point out his flaws.
Two concrete examples have not been presented. And now you are dancing around your example being called out as false.

When Burke is eventually fired, my stances that I hold now will not change, just as they didn't for JFJ. I have pointed out some of his flaws even now. Every GM has flaws.

Whydidijoin* is offline  
Old
11-04-2012, 09:51 PM
  #961
Gatorade*
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,579
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whydidijoin View Post
Lol. He said he doesn't respect GMs who say they have a 5-year plan for the sole purpose of buying themselves 5 years of not having to do anything. He did not say he disrespects rebuilds that take 5 years.

There is a HUGE difference.
What is the difference? Why is a man not accountable? Burke stated its not five years because of his age and that it wasn't in Anaheim.

Why is Burke off the hook?

Gatorade* is offline  
Old
11-04-2012, 09:52 PM
  #962
Gatorade*
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,579
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whydidijoin View Post
Two concrete examples have not been presented. And now you are dancing around your example being called out as false.

When Burke is eventually fired, my stances that I hold now will not change, just as they didn't for JFJ. I have pointed out some of his flaws even now. Every GM has flaws.
Two concrete examples certainly have.

Smythe and Sather.

Gatorade* is offline  
Old
11-04-2012, 09:56 PM
  #963
Whydidijoin*
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,812
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorade View Post
What is the difference? Why is a man not accountable? Burke stated its not five years because of his age and that it wasn't in Anaheim.

Why is Burke off the hook?
I never said Burke isn't accountable. However, just saying "has he made the playoffs?" is a short-sighted evaluation process.

With that post, I merely showed you that your interpretation of what he said was completely wrong.

Whydidijoin* is offline  
Old
11-04-2012, 09:58 PM
  #964
Whydidijoin*
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,812
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorade View Post
Two concrete examples certainly have.

Smythe and Sather.
Sather is not an example at all, since it is proven that he did have help from before he became GM.

Smythe, I don't know because it was almost a century ago and there weren't records being kept, but the way teams are run suggests that he did have help from previous management, however small and indirect it may be.

Whydidijoin* is offline  
Old
11-04-2012, 10:02 PM
  #965
diceman934
Registered User
 
diceman934's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: NHL player factory
Posts: 6,055
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whydidijoin View Post
That no one GM is ever solely responsible for results in any given year, even in rare cases from almost a century ago, because any move is impacted by previous ones and impacts future ones.


I don't insult anybody. I point out their faulty points and stances, of which there are plenty.

First one being that his salary is irrelevant, and not even accurate.


Through black and white glasses, without looking at reality or the big picture.


I never said this is a great team right now. Didn't even say Burke was a great GM. Burke also never said he disrespects people who take 5+ years.


Your faulty stances don't affect me at all. I am simply here to spread knowledge and actual facts, and what they mean in both the small and big picture.


I don't care at all what fans of other teams think we are, and I know that HFboards is not a representation of widespread opinion.


No, I think people like you are against us, and enjoy trolling us.

I don't think we are amazing right now. I think we are on the right path.


Oh, you guys go so much further than to say we have been kinda crappy over the last little while. That is the problem.

The "no playoffs in 7 years" thing also means so very little. It's a hype phrase. Those are the kinds of "facts" people like you like to use, without looking at the actual facts, context, reasons, or the big picture.
You were wrong and I proved it....GM/owner for 30 years, with many cups all as a result of the one GM.

Call me a liar is not an insult....or calling people trolls who do not agree with you are not insults. You referred to me as a child....

The fact that we have not made the playoffs for 7 years is a fact....like it or not. What is the big picture.....Burke states that he can turn this team around in a hurry and sets out to do so....he failed and you want us to believe that we should cut him some slack.

We are not in my opinion on the right path....if we were on the right path we would have some stability between the pipes. We would currently have a number one center on our roster or in our system.

diceman934 is online now  
Old
11-04-2012, 10:05 PM
  #966
Gatorade*
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,579
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whydidijoin View Post
Sather is not an example at all, since it is proven that he did have help from before he became GM.

Smythe, I don't know because it was almost a century ago and there weren't records being kept, but the way teams are run suggests that he did have help from previous management, however small and indirect it may be.
Sather became GM of the Oilers in 1980. What proof are you referring to?

You also dispute Conne Smythe. Are you even a hockey fan?

Gatorade* is offline  
Old
11-04-2012, 10:15 PM
  #967
Whydidijoin*
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,812
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by diceman934 View Post
You were wrong and I proved it....GM/owner for 30 years, with many cups all as a result of the one GM.
You didn't prove that those cups were the result solely of one GM.

Quote:
Originally Posted by diceman934 View Post
Call me a liar is not an insult....or calling people trolls who do not agree with you are not insults. You referred to me as a child....
You are what you do/act like.

Quote:
Originally Posted by diceman934 View Post
The fact that we have not made the playoffs for 7 years is a fact....like it or not. What is the big picture.....Burke states that he can turn this team around in a hurry and sets out to do so....he failed and you want us to believe that we should cut him some slack.
Yes, it is a fact. And it is a fact that means very little without context, much like all facts.

Yes, Burke failed at providing a good team right away. However, not for lack of trying and good moves, and it is not reason enough to fire him. His primary goal has always been long term.

Quote:
Originally Posted by diceman934 View Post
We are not in my opinion on the right path....if we were on the right path we would have some stability between the pipes. We would currently have a number one center on our roster or in our system.
Right path =/= Completely finished team

Whydidijoin* is offline  
Old
11-04-2012, 10:17 PM
  #968
Whydidijoin*
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,812
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorade View Post
Sather became GM of the Oilers in 1980. What proof are you referring to?
And Gretzky was there before 1980, as were multiple other players either directly or as an indirect result of actions pre-1980.

Whydidijoin* is offline  
Old
11-04-2012, 10:19 PM
  #969
diceman934
Registered User
 
diceman934's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: NHL player factory
Posts: 6,055
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorade View Post
Sather became GM of the Oilers in 1980. What proof are you referring to?

You also dispute Conne Smythe. Are you even a hockey fan?
Lou Lamoriello was another one mentioned he has been the president and Gm since 1987 and last won the cup in 2003 .....16 years after he was named the president and GM. This example is very current.

diceman934 is online now  
Old
11-04-2012, 10:22 PM
  #970
diceman934
Registered User
 
diceman934's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: NHL player factory
Posts: 6,055
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whydidijoin View Post
And Gretzky was there before 1980, as were multiple other players either directly or as an indirect result of actions pre-1980.
If you want to know...Edmonton Oilers

Sather became head coach of the Oilers in 1977 and maintained the post when they joined the NHL in 1979–80.[1] In 1978, then-Oilers owner Peter Pocklington came to Sather and asked him whether he should take advantage of an opportunity to acquire Wayne Gretzky. Sather replied, "Whatever you have to do, get him." This was considered a risky proposition in 1978, as many scouts and hockey pundits, notably Howie Meeker, considered Gretzky too small, and unlikely to ever make it in the pro ranks. Upon acquiring Gretzky, Sather allowed him to live with his family.

In 1979, the Edmonton Oilers were absorbed into the NHL.

Any Questions.

diceman934 is online now  
Old
11-04-2012, 10:27 PM
  #971
diceman934
Registered User
 
diceman934's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: NHL player factory
Posts: 6,055
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whydidijoin View Post
You didn't prove that those cups were the result solely of one GM.


You are what you do/act like.


Yes, it is a fact. And it is a fact that means very little without context, much like all facts.

Yes, Burke failed at providing a good team right away. However, not for lack of trying and good moves, and it is not reason enough to fire him. His primary goal has always been long term.


Right path =/= Completely finished team
You are right.....god may have helped him to win those cups as well....

diceman934 is online now  
Old
11-04-2012, 10:31 PM
  #972
Whydidijoin*
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,812
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by diceman934 View Post
Lou Lamoriello was another one mentioned he has been the president and Gm since 1987 and last won the cup in 2003 .....16 years after he was named the president and GM. This example is very current.
And even in 2003, I am pretty sure there were players either there directly or as an indirect result of actions pre-1987.

The only way this would not be true is if every single player on the Devils was self-drafted with an original draft pick or a result of a trade where only a self-drafted player post-1987 went the other way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by diceman934 View Post
If you want to know...Edmonton Oilers

Sather became head coach of the Oilers in 1977 and maintained the post when they joined the NHL in 1979–80.[1] In 1978, then-Oilers owner Peter Pocklington came to Sather and asked him whether he should take advantage of an opportunity to acquire Wayne Gretzky. Sather replied, "Whatever you have to do, get him." This was considered a risky proposition in 1978, as many scouts and hockey pundits, notably Howie Meeker, considered Gretzky too small, and unlikely to ever make it in the pro ranks. Upon acquiring Gretzky, Sather allowed him to live with his family.

In 1979, the Edmonton Oilers were absorbed into the NHL.

Any Questions.
That's a great story! So what you're saying is, Sather wasn't the GM when Edmonton got Gretzky.

Whydidijoin* is offline  
Old
11-04-2012, 10:37 PM
  #973
diceman934
Registered User
 
diceman934's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: NHL player factory
Posts: 6,055
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whydidijoin View Post
You didn't prove anything, and even if you did, it is in a context that is irrelevant to my point.

Accusing a liar of lying doesn't paint me in a bad light. It paints you in a bad light. I don't appreciate children trying to play me for a fool because they can't use actual facts to support their opinions.
I don't appreciate children trying to play me for a fool because they can't use actual facts to support their opinions

There are no facts when you present an opinion.....but only you seem to think there are and demand them!

Any questions?

diceman934 is online now  
Old
11-04-2012, 10:40 PM
  #974
Gatorade*
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,579
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whydidijoin View Post
And even in 2003, I am pretty sure there were players either there directly or as an indirect result of actions pre-1987.

The only way this would not be true is if every single player on the Devils was self-drafted with an original draft pick or a result of a trade where only a self-drafted player post-1987 went the other way.


That's a great story! So what you're saying is, Sather wasn't the GM when Edmonton got Gretzky.
So now you are trying to discredit Sather to prove Burke has done a great job in Toronto. The spin has reached levels of unbelievable.

How about simply looking at Burke's predictions and ensuing results! Terrible.

Gatorade* is offline  
Old
11-04-2012, 10:40 PM
  #975
diceman934
Registered User
 
diceman934's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: NHL player factory
Posts: 6,055
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whydidijoin View Post
And even in 2003, I am pretty sure there were players either there directly or as an indirect result of actions pre-1987.

The only way this would not be true is if every single player on the Devils was self-drafted with an original draft pick or a result of a trade where only a self-drafted player post-1987 went the other way.


That's a great story! So what you're saying is, Sather wasn't the GM when Edmonton got Gretzky.
Sather was directly responsible for Gretzky becoming an Edmonton Oiler. It is not a story.....it is a fact!

diceman934 is online now  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:48 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.