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Quebec City Part VII: Si J'avais les ailes d'un ange

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11-04-2012, 01:53 AM
  #76
madhi19
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Originally Posted by Phil Parent View Post
Dallas gets ****ed on traveling times...

How about switching Dallas and Chicago?

Or, SJ, LA, ANA, COL & DAL in one division.
EDM, CAL, WIN, MIN, VAN in another.
Dallas is getting screwed no matter what that the price to pay to be in Texas. Edit I like that this realignment is getting the freaking Leafs off the Habs division am more than a bit tired of the habs always starting their season on the road in freaking Toronto!

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11-04-2012, 01:58 AM
  #77
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You can immediately discount any relocation plan that splits up an Atlantic rivalry. Same would also go with any hypothetical plan to leave a single American team with four Canadian teams.

But, assuming that the Yotes relocate to Quebec City and no teams get added, a radical realignment will have to be done as I don't see them being willing to break up Toronto/Montreal, Chicago/Detroit, Philly/Pittsburgh, or the NYC area teams. Either they go non-geographic and completely redo everything while retaining core divisional rivalries or they change the number of divisions.... or they expand by a couple teams.

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11-04-2012, 01:00 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by No Fun Shogun View Post
You can immediately discount any relocation plan that splits up an Atlantic rivalry. Same would also go with any hypothetical plan to leave a single American team with four Canadian teams.

But, assuming that the Yotes relocate to Quebec City and no teams get added, a radical realignment will have to be done as I don't see them being willing to break up Toronto/Montreal, Chicago/Detroit, Philly/Pittsburgh, or the NYC area teams. Either they go non-geographic and completely redo everything while retaining core divisional rivalries or they change the number of divisions.... or they expand by a couple teams.
Like I said no Habs fans will mind a break from the Leafs if we get the Nordiques rivalry back.

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11-04-2012, 01:13 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by DyerMaker66 View Post


?
Leafs - Habs/Sens (+Bs lesser) are pretty important division rivals.
Plus we don't even get the wings back lol.

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11-04-2012, 01:15 AM
  #80
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Like I said no Habs fans will mind a break from the Leafs if we get the Nordiques rivalry back.
Haha ya who cares about all those other non-Quebec teams ....

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11-04-2012, 01:21 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by madhi19 View Post
Like I said no Habs fans will mind a break from the Leafs if we get the Nordiques rivalry back.
If you say so, but even then if that were the case it'd still be a tough puzzle with six five-team divisions or even five six-team divisions....

If Toronto and Montreal can be split, then the only thing that remotely makes sense to me right now, in a state of mind that needs sleep, would be this (with your team bolded for your convenience).....

Quebec & Dixie Division
Carolina Hurricanes
Florida Panthers
Montreal Canadiens
Quebec Nordiques
Tampa Bay Lightning
Washington Capitals

Atlantic Division
Boston Bruins
New Jersey Devils
New York Islanders
New York Rangers
Philadelphia Flyers
Pittsburgh Penguins

Northern Division
Buffalo Sabres
Chicago Blackhawks
Columbus Blue Jackets
Detroit Red Wings
Ottawa Senators
Toronto Maple Leafs

Central Division
Colorado Avalanche
Dallas Stars
Minnesota Wild
Nashville Predators
St. Louis Blues
Winnipeg Jets

Pacific Division
Anaheim Ducks
Calgary Flames
Edmonton Oilers
Los Angeles Kings
San Jose Sharks
Vancouver Canucks

It'd cause some rumblings, but that might very well be a realignment proposal that could have enough aye votes to actually implement. With the exception of the Blues almost assuredly being opposed, the Atlantic, Central, Northern, and Pacific Divisions would all be stoked, meaning 23 probable aye votes there.

EDIT: Then the playoffs would work as follows..... same 16-team tournament format overall, with the five division winners getting guaranteed top seeding, three best wild card teams getting in with first round home ice with 6-8 seeds, and then the bottom eight being seeded 9-16 according to record. In other words, just divisions, no conferences.


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11-04-2012, 02:55 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Phil Parent View Post
Dallas gets ****ed on traveling times...

How about switching Dallas and Chicago?

Or, SJ, LA, ANA, COL & DAL in one division.
EDM, CAL, WIN, MIN, VAN in another.
Switching Dallas and Chicago makes sense, but the NHL won't want to have an American team alone in a division even though it would make the most sense (as would putting Boston or Buffalo with the 4 Canadian Teams).


Last edited by DyerMaker66: 11-04-2012 at 03:00 AM.
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11-04-2012, 05:47 AM
  #83
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It shouldn't be complicated
NE - Que, Buf, Mon, Bos, Ott
Atl - NYR, NYI, NJD, Phil, Pit
SE - Fla, TB, Car, Wash, Nash
Cen - Tor, Det, Chi, St.L, Clb
NW - Van, Wpg, Edm, Cgy, Min
SW - SJ, LA, Dal, Ana, Col

or

NE - Bos, Buf, Mon, Ott, Que
Atl - NYR, NYI, NJD, Phil, Wash
Cen - Det, Chi, Clb, Pit, Tor
SE...C - St.L, Nash, TB, Fla, Car
NW - Van, Wpg, Edm, Cgy, Min
SW - SJ, LA, Dal, Ana, Col

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11-04-2012, 09:03 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by wildthing202 View Post
It shouldn't be complicated
NE - Que, Buf, Mon, Bos, Ott
Atl - NYR, NYI, NJD, Phil, Pit
SE - Fla, TB, Car, Wash, Nash
Cen - Tor, Det, Chi, St.L, Clb
NW - Van, Wpg, Edm, Cgy, Min
SW - SJ, LA, Dal, Ana, Col

or

NE - Bos, Buf, Mon, Ott, Que
Atl - NYR, NYI, NJD, Phil, Wash
Cen - Det, Chi, Clb, Pit, Tor
SE...C - St.L, Nash, TB, Fla, Car
NW - Van, Wpg, Edm, Cgy, Min
SW - SJ, LA, Dal, Ana, Col
To me, it makes a while lot more sense to keep Toronto in the Northeast and move Boston to the Atlantic.

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11-04-2012, 12:15 PM
  #85
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As I said before though, the NHL probably won't consider a proposal to leave only a single American team in a division, though. They're going to much more likely stick it to a Canadian team(s) with odd alignment then put Minnesota or Colorado or Boston or Buffalo by themselves with four other Canadian teams even if it makes perfect geographic sense.

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11-04-2012, 09:44 PM
  #86
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This is what the NHL had proposed. You'll notice that Phoenix could easily slide into conference C or D.

Conference A - Anaheim Calgary Colorado Edmonton Los Angeles Phoenix San Jose Vancouver

Conference B - Chicago Columbus Dallas Detroit Minnesota Nashville
St. Louis Winnipeg

Conference C - Boston Buffalo Florida Montreal Ottawa Tampa Bay Toronto

Conference D Carolina New Jersey NY Islanders NY Rangers Philadelphia Pittsburgh Washington

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11-04-2012, 09:59 PM
  #87
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This is my improved league.

Conference A - Anaheim Calgary Colorado Edmonton Los Angeles San Jose Vancouver Seattle

Conference B - Chicago Columbus Dallas Detroit Minnesota Houston
St. Louis Winnipeg

Conference C - Cleveland Buffalo Hamilton Montreal Ottawa Tampa Bay Toronto Toronto2

Conference D Boston New Jersey NY Islanders NY Rangers Philadelphia Pittsburgh Washington Quebec

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11-04-2012, 10:05 PM
  #88
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I think we will see Phoenix stay before a Cleveland team. Houston is an interesting addition though.

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11-04-2012, 10:06 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by aqib View Post
This is what the NHL had proposed. You'll notice that Phoenix could easily slide into conference C or D.

Conference A - Anaheim Calgary Colorado Edmonton Los Angeles Phoenix San Jose Vancouver

Conference B - Chicago Columbus Dallas Detroit Minnesota Nashville
St. Louis Winnipeg

Conference C - Boston Buffalo Florida Montreal Ottawa Tampa Bay Toronto

Conference D Carolina New Jersey NY Islanders NY Rangers Philadelphia Pittsburgh Washington
and of course could stay properly in Group A in the event of a move to Seattle, or even slide into group B at the expense of Minnesota if the team got moved someplace odd in that region (like KC for instance).

Just saying, there's no particular reason to read an incipient move to Quebec into this -- of course with that said, there's also no reason not to.

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11-04-2012, 10:07 PM
  #90
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I think we will see Phoenix stay before a Cleveland team. Houston is an interesting addition though.
Anyone know the details of the building the Houston Rockets play in?

EDIT: ANswered my own question: Houston Toyota Center. Hockey capacity 17K. Bigger than a lot of NHL barns, including slightly bigger IIRC than the TD Garden. Could be an NHL caliber arena. If they had an owner, they could concievably make that work.

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11-04-2012, 10:10 PM
  #91
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I think we will see Phoenix stay before a Cleveland team. Houston is an interesting addition though.
yeah I was just looking for a place to put Nashville. I picked Cleveland because I love that city and I think that if the $3 billion in downtown development turns out to be a game changer then its possible. Otherwise KC works just as well for alignment purposes. Houston I put in because I needed a place to put Carolina and its worth a shot plus it could be a rivalry with Dallas.

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11-04-2012, 10:14 PM
  #92
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EDIT: Disregard. Misread something and responded based on that misreading.

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11-04-2012, 10:19 PM
  #93
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yeah I was just looking for a place to put Nashville. I picked Cleveland because I love that city and I think that if the $3 billion in downtown development turns out to be a game changer then its possible. Otherwise KC works just as well for alignment purposes.
There's a lot of adequate-size US markets you could use for that. Milwaukee, New Orleans, and KC all spring to mind. Problem is I can't see any of them really managing to support a team longterm -- although any of them could if the chemistry between team and town is right.

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Houston I put in because I needed a place to put Carolina and its worth a shot plus it could be a rivalry with Dallas.
The more I do my homework about Houston, the better an expansion target it appears to be.

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11-04-2012, 10:30 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by aqib View Post
This is my improved league.

Conference A - Anaheim Calgary Colorado Edmonton Los Angeles San Jose Vancouver Seattle

Conference B - Chicago Columbus Dallas Detroit Minnesota Houston
St. Louis Winnipeg

Conference C - Cleveland Buffalo Hamilton Montreal Ottawa Tampa Bay Toronto Toronto2

Conference D Boston New Jersey NY Islanders NY Rangers Philadelphia Pittsburgh Washington Quebec
There's no way Quebec can't be in the same division as Montreal
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Originally Posted by Dojji View Post
Anyone know the details of the building the Houston Rockets play in?

EDIT: ANswered my own question: Houston Toyota Center. Hockey capacity 17K. Bigger than a lot of NHL barns, including slightly bigger IIRC than the TD Garden. Could be an NHL caliber arena. If they had an owner, they could concievably make that work.
I think that before putting a team in Houston, they should look at Dallas and make sure that their attendance figures improve from the last two seasons. If they still continue drawing 11000 fans a game during the first half of the season, I can't see how Texas will be able to support two NHL teams. Same for Cleveland as long as Columbus is at the bottom of the league attendance figures.


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11-04-2012, 10:34 PM
  #95
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As I said before though, the NHL probably won't consider a proposal to leave only a single American team in a division, though. They're going to much more likely stick it to a Canadian team(s) with odd alignment then put Minnesota or Colorado or Boston or Buffalo by themselves with four other Canadian teams even if it makes perfect geographic sense.
Buffalo is basically Canada. Same goes for Minnesota.

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11-04-2012, 10:42 PM
  #96
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There's no way Quebec can't be in the same division as Montreal

I think that before putting a team in Houston, they should look at Dallas and make sure that their attendance figures improve from the last two seasons. If they still continue drawing 11000 fans a game during the first half of the season, I can't see how Texas will be able to support two NHL teams. Same for Cleveland as long as Columbus is at the bottom of the league attendance figures.
I think Texas can support two NHL teams better than it can support one. When it comes to sports, Dallas and Houston tend to be a package deal. The rivalry between the two towns makes any league that has both teams more interesting to Texans and the amount of oil money that state can sling around is absurd.

Personally I think a team in Houston would act as a catalyst to the stars in the same way each of Boston, Toronto and Montreal are stronger markets for the rivalry with each other.

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11-04-2012, 10:42 PM
  #97
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There's a lot of adequate-size US markets you could use for that. Milwaukee, New Orleans, and KC all spring to mind. Problem is I can't see any of them really managing to support a team longterm -- although any of them could if the chemistry between team and town is right.
New Orleans can barely support the teams it has. Milwaukee it depends on how the arena shakes out. KC is possible.

Of course I just did that in 2 minutes on a sunday.

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11-04-2012, 10:45 PM
  #98
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The problem is KC is already one of the weakest markets at anything else it tries to do. I can't imagine it working much better for hockey.

You're right about the other two not being any better. In terms of markets in the lower midwest there just isn't that much there unless you're including Texas in that.

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11-04-2012, 10:47 PM
  #99
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Houston is a tremendous growing market. I wonder how far their arena is from the airport and city though. Them and Dallas playing 6 or 8 times a year could really make things happen for both. But the issue is, as always, getting ownership to be interested in growing a team there.

But with the 4 Conference/Division re-alignment, I imagine a 32-team league is around the corner. Having unbalanced numbers would drive be bonkers, if it stayed that way for an extended period of time.

So assuming Phoenix stays: Expand to Seattle and QBC and you're done. If Phoenix relocates: Move them to one of Seattle/QBC and put an expansion at the other spot down the road. Question becomes where the final spot would be. Of course, this also assumes that the remaining 29 teams are healthy,wealthy, and wise. Not necessarily safe assumptions based on the NHL's recent history.

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11-04-2012, 11:57 PM
  #100
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Or just move the Yotes to Houston or Seattle, expand to the other and Markham Hamilton or QC to toss a bone to the Canadians, move the Jets into a division that reflects reality, and you're also done.

Or heck, expand both teams out west, keep the Yotes in place, ignore QC, ship the Jets west and move DET NSH and CBJ into the EC. Probably means CBJ plays in the Southeast, but that's still better than what they're doing right now.

As for the accessibility of their arena -- I dunno, it's a potential unknown factor in the equation. The barn looks like it'd work, and the Rockets seem to have a good crowd most nights (average attendance is north of 80% of arena capacity), so it looks like a smart gamble, but there's no sure things when it comes to expansion -- however much a Canadian tries to argue otherwise.


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