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Keep Burke or not if it was your choice?

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Old
11-04-2012, 10:42 PM
  #976
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Sather was directly responsible for Gretzky becoming an Edmonton Oiler. It is not a story.....it is a fact!
Of course it is. Unbelievable!!

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11-04-2012, 10:44 PM
  #977
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I don't appreciate children trying to play me for a fool because they can't use actual facts to support their opinions

There are no facts when you present an opinion.....but only you seem to think there are and demand them!

Any questions?
Facts =/= Opinions
However, facts should support opinions, especially when you present them as a reality like you do.

Any questions?

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11-04-2012, 10:45 PM
  #978
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So now you are trying to discredit Sather to prove Burke has done a great job in Toronto. The spin has reached levels of unbelievable.

How about simply looking at Burke's predictions and ensuing results! Terrible.
This actually has nothing to do with Burke.

This has to do with the fact that things done have an impact far into the future.

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11-04-2012, 10:46 PM
  #979
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Sather was directly responsible for Gretzky becoming an Edmonton Oiler. It is not a story.....it is a fact!
No, he was indirectly a factor.

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11-04-2012, 10:48 PM
  #980
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No, he was indirectly a factor.
Is your position that Sather didn't build the Oilers once they entered the NHL?

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11-04-2012, 10:50 PM
  #981
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Is your position that Sather didn't build the Oilers once they entered the NHL?
No, there were things that helped Sather build the Oilers into a Dynasty from before Sather was a GM.

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11-04-2012, 10:52 PM
  #982
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No, there were things that helped Sather build the Oilers into a Dynasty from before Sather was a GM.
What were they?

Anybody can make statements. How about some facts!

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11-04-2012, 10:52 PM
  #983
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Originally Posted by Whydidijoin View Post
Facts =/= Opinions
However, facts should support opinions, especially when you present them as a reality like you do.

Any questions?
I present facts as facts and opinions as opinions.

Here I will make this easy for even you to understand.
Fact
A fact (derived from the Latin factum, see below) is something that has really occurred or is actually the case. The usual test for a statement of fact is verifiability, that is whether it can be proven to correspond to experience. Standard reference works are often used to check facts. Scientific facts are verified by repeatable experiments.

Opinion
In casual use, the term opinion may be the result of a person's perspective, understanding, particular feelings, beliefs, and desires. It may refer to unsubstantiated information, in contrast to knowledge and fact-based beliefs.


I hope this clears this up.

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11-04-2012, 10:56 PM
  #984
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Originally Posted by Gatorade View Post
What were they?

Anybody can make statements. How about some facts!
Gretzky for one.

Any player that wasn't self-drafted post-1980 or obtained from a trade involving solely a self-drafted player post-1980, for another.

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11-04-2012, 10:59 PM
  #985
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Originally Posted by Whydidijoin View Post
Gretzky for one.

Any player that wasn't self-drafted post-1980 or obtained from a trade involving solely a self-drafted player post-1980, for another.
Which key players were not drafted or acquired post 1980?

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11-04-2012, 11:00 PM
  #986
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Originally Posted by diceman934 View Post
I present facts as facts and opinions as opinions.

Here I will make this easy for even you to understand.
Fact
A fact (derived from the Latin factum, see below) is something that has really occurred or is actually the case. The usual test for a statement of fact is verifiability, that is whether it can be proven to correspond to experience. Standard reference works are often used to check facts. Scientific facts are verified by repeatable experiments.

Opinion
In casual use, the term opinion may be the result of a person's perspective, understanding, particular feelings, beliefs, and desires. It may refer to unsubstantiated information, in contrast to knowledge and fact-based beliefs.

I hope this clears this up.
o·pin·ion

noun
1. a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty.
2. a personal view, attitude, or appraisal.
3. the formal expression of a professional judgment: to ask for a second medical opinion.
4. Law . the formal statement by a judge or court of the reasoning and the principles of law used in reaching a decision of a case.
5. a judgment or estimate of a person or thing with respect to character, merit, etc.: to forfeit someone's good opinion.

Grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty. Not no grounds at all.

On a discussion forum, the burden for proof is only intensified. And things written as statements are taken as facts unless otherwise stated.

This wouldn't even be as much of a problem if you presented things you say as opinion, not facts or statements. Next time, try saying "My opinion is...".

I hope this clears this up.

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11-04-2012, 11:03 PM
  #987
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Which key players were not drafted or acquired post 1980?
They don't have to be key players. All players play a role.

You also seemed to have misread.

Any player that wasn't self-drafted post-1980 or obtained from a trade involving solely a self-drafted player post-1980, for another.

That would include most players. It would include all on some cup-winners.

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11-04-2012, 11:08 PM
  #988
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Originally Posted by Whydidijoin View Post
They don't have to be key players. All players play a role.

You also seemed to have misread.

Any player that wasn't self-drafted post-1980 or obtained from a trade involving solely a self-drafted player post-1980, for another.

That would include most players. It would include all on some cup-winners.
Who are they? I lived that era closely. Interested to re-live it.

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11-04-2012, 11:19 PM
  #989
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Who are they? I lived that era closely. Interested to re-live it.
I just told you.

Any player that wasn't self-drafted post-1980 or obtained from a trade involving solely a self-drafted player post-1980.

That is most if not all players, that were obtained in some part because of pre-Sather. If you followed that era closely, then you know their names.

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11-04-2012, 11:20 PM
  #990
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Originally Posted by Whydidijoin View Post
o·pin·ion

noun
1. a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty.
2. a personal view, attitude, or appraisal.
3. the formal expression of a professional judgment: to ask for a second medical opinion.
4. Law . the formal statement by a judge or court of the reasoning and the principles of law used in reaching a decision of a case.
5. a judgment or estimate of a person or thing with respect to character, merit, etc.: to forfeit someone's good opinion.

Grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty. Not no grounds at all.

On a discussion forum, the burden for proof is only intensified. And things written as statements are taken as facts unless otherwise stated.

This wouldn't even be as much of a problem if you presented things you say as opinion, not facts or statements. Next time, try saying "My opinion is...".

I hope this clears this up.

So when you posted that no GM has ever been totally responsible for winning the Stanley Cup, that you presented it as a fact? As it was not proceed by "in my opinion"

Or when you made this comment
Quote:
The fact that you are using the KHL, who play a totally different style and use a different scoring system, is laughable.
So I will wait while you support your fact based statement that the KHL uses a different scoring system.

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11-04-2012, 11:25 PM
  #991
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Originally Posted by Whydidijoin View Post
I just told you.

Any player that wasn't self-drafted post-1980 or obtained from a trade involving solely a self-drafted player post-1980.

That is most if not all players, that were obtained in some part because of pre-Sather. If you followed that era closely, then you know their names.
I do know. Once again you deflect and fail to provide a single name. Who prior to Sather was on the first cup team? Prove you know your stuff. This is your chance.

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11-04-2012, 11:27 PM
  #992
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whydidijoin View Post
o·pin·ion

noun
1. a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty.
2. a personal view, attitude, or appraisal.
3. the formal expression of a professional judgment: to ask for a second medical opinion.
4. Law . the formal statement by a judge or court of the reasoning and the principles of law used in reaching a decision of a case.
5. a judgment or estimate of a person or thing with respect to character, merit, etc.: to forfeit someone's good opinion.

Grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty. Not no grounds at all.

On a discussion forum, the burden for proof is only intensified. And things written as statements are taken as facts unless otherwise stated.

This wouldn't even be as much of a problem if you presented things you say as opinion, not facts or statements. Next time, try saying "My opinion is...".

I hope this clears this up.
You don't want me to get involved do you? Further most use common sense, facts, stats, opinions and don't need rules that you made, not universal rules of posting. Again, I think you need to stop telling people how to post, even better yet stop telling people what they mean by what said and meant in an effort to bend it to your agenda. If anyone should know what they wrote it is the poster, not what you think they wrote.

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11-04-2012, 11:31 PM
  #993
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Originally Posted by diceman934 View Post
So when you posted that no GM has ever been totally responsible for winning the Stanley Cup, that you presented it as a fact? As it was not proceed by "in my opinion"

Or when you made this comment

So I will wait while you support your fact based statement that the KHL uses a different scoring system.
It is fact that no stanley cup has ever been won solely because of the GM at the time, because every single thing done has an impact far into the future. Not opinion.

The KHL does score differently. They are much stricter with assists. That is also not opinion. And I already answered it. Better to stick to one thread for each topic.

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11-04-2012, 11:35 PM
  #994
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I do know. Once again you deflect and fail to provide a single name. Who prior to Sather was on the first cup team? Prove you know your stuff. This is your chance.
Lol, I am not deflecting. I just don't see the point of going around and finding players names when essentially every single player falls into that realm whether the names are used or not.

I think the problem is, once again, you have misread what I wrote.

Any player that wasn't self-drafted post-1980 or obtained from a trade involving solely a self-drafted player that was drafted post-1980.

I also forgot players signed post-1980 from free-agency.

Hell, I already did name you one in Gretzky.

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11-04-2012, 11:39 PM
  #995
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
You don't want me to get involved do you? Further most use common sense, facts, stats, opinions and don't need rules that you made, not universal rules of posting. Again, I think you need to stop telling people how to post, even better yet stop telling people what they mean by what said and meant in an effort to bend it to your agenda. If anyone should know what they wrote it is the poster, not what you think they wrote.
I don't really care if you get involved. It's your choice.

Most, in this forum at least, do not use common sense, facts, stats, or the proper use of opinion. That is what I am trying to remedy.

It is a universal rule in forums that you can't just go posting unsubstantiated nonsense. It is expected that posts are supported by something other than self-delusions.

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11-04-2012, 11:41 PM
  #996
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Originally Posted by Whydidijoin View Post
I don't really care if you get involved. It's your choice.

Most, in this forum at least, do not use common sense, facts, stats, or the proper use of opinion. That is what I am trying to remedy.

It is a universal rule in forums that you can't just go posting unsubstantiated nonsense. It is expected that posts are supported by something other than self-delusions.
You just posted I questioned grabo's toughness, or your definition of toughness.

Where's your evidence of this?

I have called grabo many things, but one in your critaria of toughness, I have never questioned his ability to get up after a hit, or go into a corner even when he was dumb enough to get crash test bunnied.

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11-04-2012, 11:48 PM
  #997
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Lol, I am not deflecting. I just don't see the point of going around and finding players names when essentially every single player falls into that realm whether the names are used or not.

I think the problem is, once again, you have misread what I wrote.

Any player that wasn't self-drafted post-1980 or obtained from a trade involving solely a self-drafted player that was drafted post-1980.

I also forgot players signed post-1980 from free-agency.

Hell, I already did name you one in Gretzky.
That deflection is weak beyond belief. No players were drafted prior because the Oilers weren't even in the NHL haha

The fact is you don't know what you are taking about. You say things but offer zero facts ZERO.

When presented with facts you make blanket statements which are easily debunked.

This is silly. Present some facts or lay off the attacks.

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11-05-2012, 12:00 AM
  #998
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
You just posted I questioned grabo's toughness, or your definition of toughness.

Where's your evidence of this?

I have called grabo many things, but one in your critaria of toughness, I have never questioned his ability to get up after a hit, or go into a corner even when he was dumb enough to get crash test bunnied.
Stick to the thread. I'm not answering the same questions in both.

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11-05-2012, 12:01 AM
  #999
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That deflection is weak beyond belief. No players were drafted prior because the Oilers weren't even in the NHL haha

The fact is you don't know what you are taking about. You say things but offer zero facts ZERO.

When presented with facts you make blanket statements which are easily debunked.

This is silly. Present some facts or lay off the attacks.
Hmm... If Edmonton had no players, how did they play hockey?

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11-05-2012, 12:03 AM
  #1000
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Hmm... If Edmonton had no players, how did they play hockey?
Yet another deflection. Whom prior to Sather won the cup? Why won't you answer?

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