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Old
11-04-2012, 03:54 PM
  #726
pahlsson
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yeah i'd take "7 goal scorer" kulemin over "2 goal scorer" mps any day of the week

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11-04-2012, 04:51 PM
  #727
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
You're putting words in my mouth. Whatever helps you sleep at night.



Interesting that you don't like Frattin, who has scored at every level, but you think MPS is going to magically turn into a goal scorer.

Kulemin and MPS are both big guys, good skaters, that aren't physical and will probably have to carve out career's as defensive players because they aren't going to be consistent scorers. Pretty similar to me.
Just going off of what you've argued against me with.

Kulemin is actually quite physical, but I just don't see him as being any sort of upgrade on what we have. MPS, however, likely won't even be a regular member of our team this year, but I think his long-term ceiling is much higher. MPS in his rookie season as a teenager put up better numbers than Frattin did as a 24 year old for the Leafs. MPS is a much much better prospect than Frattin, and has a lot more developing left to do. By the time he's Frattin's age, I expect he'll be better than a 15 point in 56 NHL game player.

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11-04-2012, 05:55 PM
  #728
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Interesting that Dubynk hadn't heard about the Luongo rumors:
http://oilersnation.com/2012/10/31/d...eeding-to-play

Quote:
JG: Lately there have been some Luongo rumors; and I'm sure when the game's on, you don't focus on it too much, but have you heard about that? How do you respond to that? Because right now, you don't really have an option to say, "I'll prove everybody wrong that I can be a starter."

DD: You know what? I haven't even heard the Luongo rumors to be completely honest. What are they?

JG: They are just saying Edmonton's one of the three or four teams he would actually be interested in going to, allegedly, according to a report out of Vancouver.

DD: Okay. I would like to think that Edmonton has a lot of confidence in me. We spoke about it over the summer with them showing that with the new contract, and I certainly think that they'll give me a pretty good shot before going down a road like that
Yowsa.

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Old
11-04-2012, 06:55 PM
  #729
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
Kulemin is actually quite physical, but I just don't see him as being any sort of upgrade on what we have. MPS, however, likely won't even be a regular member of our team this year, but I think his long-term ceiling is much higher. MPS in his rookie season as a teenager put up better numbers than Frattin did as a 24 year old for the Leafs. MPS is a much much better prospect than Frattin, and has a lot more developing left to do. By the time he's Frattin's age, I expect he'll be better than a 15 point in 56 NHL game player.
It'll be interesting to see how both players develop. Few players find their scoring touch in the NHL but MPS is still pretty young. I think you're selling Frattin short, he might be 24 but he had a hell of a season for a rookie pro.


Last edited by Scurr: 11-05-2012 at 01:37 AM.
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Old
11-04-2012, 10:56 PM
  #730
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Anyone else interested in Hemsky from the Oilers? Yeah he's injury prone, and yeah he doesn't address are lack of grit. But he's an ideal play making winger for Booth and Kesler.

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Old
11-04-2012, 11:05 PM
  #731
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Originally Posted by Royal Canuck View Post
...
Dude change your avatar not everyone has AMC!!!!!!!11

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11-04-2012, 11:07 PM
  #732
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Originally Posted by King Canuck View Post
Anyone else interested in Hemsky from the Oilers? Yeah he's injury prone, and yeah he doesn't address are lack of grit. But he's an ideal play making winger for Booth and Kesler.
Yes im interested in both MPS and Hemsky

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Old
11-04-2012, 11:13 PM
  #733
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King Canuck View Post
Anyone else interested in Hemsky from the Oilers? Yeah he's injury prone, and yeah he doesn't address are lack of grit. But he's an ideal play making winger for Booth and Kesler.
I've been advocating Hemsky ever since Edmonton became a remote possibility. **** the injury prone thing, if he's around for the playoffs we're hot to go.

Sedins - Burrows
Booth - Kesler - Hemsky
Higgins - Lapierre - Hansen
Raymond - Malhotra - Kassian
(Weise)

Maybe GMMG would want to move Raymond+ for a legit 3C, but Lappy's been really good in the post-season and did well when he had to play the position. But otherwise, we have in essence:

-Sedin magic
-A really fast line that can actually score a lot
-A well-rounded bottom 6

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Old
11-04-2012, 11:21 PM
  #734
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VinnyC View Post
-Sedin magic
-A really fast line that can actually score a lot
-A well-rounded bottom 6
I see

-The same Sedin line that has been inconsistent scoring in the playoffs
-Two players with no chemistry and an injury waiting to happen
-A bottom 6 with no chance to score

Depends how you look at it I guess.

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Old
11-04-2012, 11:37 PM
  #735
PG Canuck
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Dude change your avatar not everyone has AMC!!!!!!!11
No doubt. Ruined a part of the show for me seeing that avatar.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VinnyC View Post
I've been advocating Hemsky ever since Edmonton became a remote possibility. **** the injury prone thing, if he's around for the playoffs we're hot to go.

Sedins - Burrows
Booth - Kesler - Hemsky
Higgins - Lapierre - Hansen
Raymond - Malhotra - Kassian
(Weise)

Maybe GMMG would want to move Raymond+ for a legit 3C, but Lappy's been really good in the post-season and did well when he had to play the position. But otherwise, we have in essence:

-Sedin magic
-A really fast line that can actually score a lot
-A well-rounded bottom 6
If Hemsky is go to go for the playoffs, how long does he last? A healthy Hemsky makes that 2nd line pretty good, but Hemsky can't produce while on LTIR. I like Lapierre and would like to see him as a 3C, but think we shouldn't rely on Lapierre for some offense, even though I think he could bring some. Fourth line...is, yeah.

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11-04-2012, 11:47 PM
  #736
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VinnyC View Post
I've been advocating Hemsky ever since Edmonton became a remote possibility. **** the injury prone thing, if he's around for the playoffs we're hot to go.

Sedins - Burrows
Booth - Kesler - Hemsky
Higgins - Lapierre - Hansen
Raymond - Malhotra - Kassian
(Weise)

Maybe GMMG would want to move Raymond+ for a legit 3C, but Lappy's been really good in the post-season and did well when he had to play the position. But otherwise, we have in essence:

-Sedin magic
-A really fast line that can actually score a lot
-A well-rounded bottom 6
Maybe we can do something around Lu and Raymond for Hemsky and Gagner?

Sedin-Sedn-Burrows
Booth-Kesler-Hemsky
Higgins-Gagner-Hansen
Malhotra-Lapierre-Kassian


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Old
11-04-2012, 11:48 PM
  #737
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
I see

-The same Sedin line that has been inconsistent scoring in the playoffs
-Two players with no chemistry and an injury waiting to happen
-A bottom 6 with no chance to score

Depends how you look at it I guess.
Sedins were "inconsistent" simply because they were our one scoring threat that other teams could focus on and shut down. Our depth wasn't coming through.

You could switch up Booth with Higgins if you're concerned about chemistry, but Hemsky being an elite distributor he would instantly make Kesler and Booth/Higgins far better at scoring.

And I don't see how Lappy, Hansen, Higgins/Booth, Raymond and a riper Kassian are players that "can't score". In this case I think an extra year will definitively help our depth scoring. So long as uh, half our roster doesn't get injured like in 2011 and we don't go into the playoffs with AV with his head way up his ass we should be good relative to other teams.

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Old
11-04-2012, 11:50 PM
  #738
PG Canuck
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King Canuck View Post
Maybe we can do something around Lu and Raymond for Hemsky and Gagner?

Sedin-Sedn-Burrows
Booth-Kesler-Hemsky
Higgins-Gagner-Hansen
Malhotra-Lapierre-Kassian

I like it, but damn we're soft...er.

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Old
11-05-2012, 12:04 AM
  #739
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Originally Posted by King Canuck View Post
Anyone else interested in Hemsky from the Oilers? Yeah he's injury prone, and yeah he doesn't address are lack of grit. But he's an ideal play making winger for Booth and Kesler.
Not at all. How can you trust him staying healthy during a long playoff run? Chances are both him and Kesler get injured and the Sedins are once again left with no support.

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11-05-2012, 12:13 AM
  #740
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Not at all. How can you trust him staying healthy during a long playoff run? Chances are both him and Kesler get injured and the Sedins are once again left with no support.
You have to take that chance. A healthy Hemsky is practically a third Sedin. The offense would just be ridiculous. He carried Oilers teams forever and was always a huge threat against us. He'd bring what we all expected from Demitra (rip) basically.

Hemsky is what the offense is missing. There aren't too many guys that are able to bring what he does, who are available.

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11-05-2012, 12:24 AM
  #741
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Originally Posted by Edonator View Post
You have to take that chance. A healthy Hemsky is practically a third Sedin. The offense would just be ridiculous. He carried Oilers teams forever and was always a huge threat against us. He'd bring what we all expected from Demitra (rip) basically.

Hemsky is what the offense is missing. There aren't too many guys that are able to bring what he does, who are available.

I agree Hemsky is very good, but he's kind of a soft perimiter player, and is injury prone. I think we could find a better fit. We need big wingers that can bang home loose pucks in brutal war like playoff games.

Go for the homerun and sell the farm for Corey Perry

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Old
11-05-2012, 12:26 AM
  #742
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Is there any consensus on what the Canucks' needs are, positionally? Sounds like everyone is keen on wingers for the second line to increase scoring depth. Overall size/grit/toughness. What about a playmaking defenseman?

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11-05-2012, 12:33 AM
  #743
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Is there any consensus on what the Canucks' needs are, positionally? Sounds like everyone is keen on wingers for the second line to increase scoring depth. Overall size/grit/toughness. What about a playmaking defenseman?
No room for more D unless we ship off Ballard. Wing is a much bigger need ATM.

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Old
11-05-2012, 12:53 AM
  #744
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Originally Posted by Edonator View Post
You have to take that chance. A healthy Hemsky is practically a third Sedin. The offense would just be ridiculous. He carried Oilers teams forever and was always a huge threat against us. He'd bring what we all expected from Demitra (rip) basically.

Hemsky is what the offense is missing. There aren't too many guys that are able to bring what he does, who are available.
I don't think you take a chance like that when trading a top goaltender like Luongo to a divisional rival for someone like Hemsky, where you're unsure if he can stay healthy in the Regular Season, let alone a playoff run.

Luongo could vastly improve the Oilers, while Hemsky could be sitting on LTIR for us.

Quote:
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Is there any consensus on what the Canucks' needs are, positionally? Sounds like everyone is keen on wingers for the second line to increase scoring depth. Overall size/grit/toughness. What about a playmaking defenseman?
Our defense is set with Hamhuis, Bieksa, Edler, Garrison. I don't see who we would trade, or why we'd trade anyone now. The saying is "Defense wins championships", right?

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11-05-2012, 01:05 AM
  #745
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Originally Posted by PG Canuck View Post
I don't think you take a chance like that when trading a top goaltender like Luongo to a divisional rival for someone like Hemsky, where you're unsure if he can stay healthy in the Regular Season, let alone a playoff run.

Luongo could vastly improve the Oilers, while Hemsky could be sitting on LTIR for us.



Our defense is set with Hamhuis, Bieksa, Edler, Garrison. I don't see who we would trade, or why we'd trade anyone now. The saying is "Defense wins championships", right?
I really think that one if the most valuable things that the Lu trade brings to the table is cap space. If Hemsky is the return, and ends up being injured or w/e..we can sign or aquire somebody else. Gillis is a master of the LTIR. I'm a bit fuzzy in the rules, but since players don't get paid for the playoffs...does the salary cap still count? Because if not, you can return Hemsky to the line up for the playoffs...I mean at the end of the day, that's really what we need thd guy for. The team itself does quite well as is during the regular season, it needs more scoring depth for the Playoffs.

I too would be interested in MPS. I think under Vancouver's system he would really thrive and become a great player. Lots of players don't break out until their mid twenties. Hell, Blake Wheeler just broke out this season(he's 24) and he was drafted 5th overall.

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11-05-2012, 01:13 AM
  #746
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Originally Posted by sully1410 View Post
I really think that one if the most valuable things that the Lu trade brings to the table is cap space. If Hemsky is the return, and ends up being injured or w/e..we can sign or aquire somebody else. Gillis is a master of the LTIR. I'm a bit fuzzy in the rules, but since players don't get paid for the playoffs...does the salary cap still count? Because if not, you can return Hemsky to the line up for the playoffs...I mean at the end of the day, that's really what we need thd guy for. The team itself does quite well as is during the regular season, it needs more scoring depth for the Playoffs.

I too would be interested in MPS. I think under Vancouver's system he would really thrive and become a great player. Lots of players don't break out until their mid twenties. Hell, Blake Wheeler just broke out this season(he's 24) and he was drafted 5th overall.
I don't think the cap counts once the playoffs roll around, but my opinion doesn't change of Hemsky. He could be injured in the Regular Season, comeback in the playoffs, and just get injured again since the physical aspect of the game is amped up. The Canucks could use a player like Hemsky when healthy. He's going to be hard-pressed to help us score when injured. Like I said, I'd prefer not getting Hemsky in a Luongo deal (unless we can get a MPS/Hartikainen with him) because of Hemsky's injury history, and Luongo's ability to make a bad team like EDM good.

I wouldn't mind MPS, but he'd be put in a role like Kassian last year with very few minutes to slowly groom him to become a better player. AV does this for basically every young player he's had, and I'm sure Jensen will see 3rd line minutes if he makes the team next year too. Thing is, are we comfortable with having Kassian and MPS in the bottom 6, especially in the playoffs? What happens to Malhotra, Weise etc?

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Old
11-05-2012, 01:48 AM
  #747
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Originally Posted by VinnyC View Post
Sedins were "inconsistent" simply because they were our one scoring threat that other teams could focus on and shut down. Our depth wasn't coming through.
http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_time_...4+45+46+47+48#

I think that's being a little too easy on the twins. They see tough checking, they're always going to see tough checking, they need to figure out how to produce regardless. Burrows is going to be valuable anywhere you put him in the lineup, I'd like to see someone else play with the twins. That's a discussion for another thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VinnyC View Post
And I don't see how Lappy, Hansen, Higgins/Booth, Raymond and a riper Kassian are players that "can't score". In this case I think an extra year will definitively help our depth scoring. So long as uh, half our roster doesn't get injured like in 2011 and we don't go into the playoffs with AV with his head way up his ass we should be good relative to other teams.
Lapierre had 5 points in 25 playoff games, he just isn't good enough offensively for that line to produce consistently imo.

I'd rather see Kassian get a shot in the top 6 than trade for Hemsky.

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11-05-2012, 07:38 AM
  #748
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Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
I see

-The same Sedin line that has been inconsistent scoring in the playoffs
-Two players with no chemistry and an injury waiting to happen
-A bottom 6 with no chance to score

Depends how you look at it I guess.
Where's this narrative come from? I tend to think Booth and Kesler play pretty well together, especially with Higgins as well. Daniel Wagner and Thomas Drance have done a fair bit of analysis on the subject.

http://vansunsportsblogs.com/2012/09...s-last-season/

http://vansunsportsblogs.com/2012/04...ave-chemistry/

He certainly has better "chemistry" with Kesler than our other options sans perhaps Higgins. Interesting to note that when paired with Booth, Kesler has better CORSI and G/60 than with Burrows, and it is oft repeated that Kesler and Burrows have "chemistry".

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11-05-2012, 10:02 AM
  #749
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Originally Posted by Yossarian54 View Post
Where's this narrative come from? I tend to think Booth and Kesler play pretty well together, especially with Higgins as well. Daniel Wagner and Thomas Drance have done a fair bit of analysis on the subject.

http://vansunsportsblogs.com/2012/09...s-last-season/

http://vansunsportsblogs.com/2012/04...ave-chemistry/

He certainly has better "chemistry" with Kesler than our other options sans perhaps Higgins. Interesting to note that when paired with Booth, Kesler has better CORSI and G/60 than with Burrows, and it is oft repeated that Kesler and Burrows have "chemistry".
Kesler is a 'shoot first' center. He will appear to be lacking chemistry with any winger. Booth and Kesler are actually very effective together.

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11-05-2012, 10:52 AM
  #750
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Originally Posted by kurt View Post
Is there any consensus on what the Canucks' needs are, positionally? Sounds like everyone is keen on wingers for the second line to increase scoring depth. Overall size/grit/toughness. What about a playmaking defenseman?
Top six playmaking winger (ala Hemsky, Tanguay)

PMD/Playmaking defender (ala Ehrhoff)

Big tough winger (ala Clowe)

I want one of those three, in that order, and depending on the calibre, a 3C with grit and defensive acumen, and possibly a solid prospect or high pick.

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