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Matt Duchene for Morgan Rielly

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Old
11-05-2012, 12:18 AM
  #26
CoachBadkitten
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oilin Toronto View Post
For the record, I'm a fan of both teams. I actually think this could be a very doable 1 on 1 trade that's not that far fetched. I certainly do not think that Toronto needs to add.

Here a look at the two:
- Duchene was drafted at the 3 spot, and Reilly at the 5 spot in a very D heavy draft. Similar draft pedigree (I know people on HF take that into consideration)
- Duchene had a very good rookie year, but had regressed a little last year. In my opinion, fellow 2nd rounder Ryan O'Reilly was the better of the two players. Whereas, Reilly's recent performance in the Canada-Russia Challenge, and the way he is playing in the WHL, I wouldn't be surprised if he turns out the be the best D chosen in this year's draft.

For those simple reasons, I certainly don't think that Toronto needs to add to this trade proposal.
It was their 3rd years not 2nd. Duchene had 67 pts I think in his 2nd year. ROR had not broken out yet.

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11-05-2012, 12:20 AM
  #27
Gigantor The Goalie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oilin Toronto View Post
For the record, I'm a fan of both teams. I actually think this could be a very doable 1 on 1 trade that's not that far fetched. I certainly do not think that Toronto needs to add.

Here a look at the two:
- Duchene was drafted at the 3 spot, and Reilly at the 5 spot in a very D heavy draft. Similar draft pedigree (I know people on HF take that into consideration)
- Duchene had a very good rookie year, but had regressed a little last year. In my opinion, fellow 2nd rounder Ryan O'Reilly was the better of the two players. Whereas, Reilly's recent performance in the Canada-Russia Challenge, and the way he is playing in the WHL, I wouldn't be surprised if he turns out the be the best D chosen in this year's draft.

For those simple reasons, I certainly don't think that Toronto needs to add to this trade proposal.
Sure Rielly could be the best dman from the draft but thats all potential based whereas Duchene is an NHL proven centerman. Until Rielly comes into the NHL and proves something then he's not worth Duchene 1 for 1. Sure I agree O'Reilly was the better of the two but Duchene had an off year and one with injuries, I expect Duchene to back to his offensive gifted self this coming season. Besides you say all you want about Rielly's potential but Duchene has the same potential and like I said NHL proven.

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11-05-2012, 12:30 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by jmart21 View Post
No from TO.
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
Wtf?
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Originally Posted by Reparlana View Post
"logical leaf fan"
This just in: you can dislike a trade even if it's good value for you.

"That's so surprising! I'm genuinely surprised you can do that!"
- No one ever.

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11-05-2012, 12:46 AM
  #29
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If I'm the Avalanche I'd want more for Duchene, but Rielly is defiantly a good starting point.

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11-05-2012, 12:47 AM
  #30
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Surprised an Avs fan created this one.

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Old
11-05-2012, 01:39 AM
  #31
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I understand the love for new up and coming prospects like Morgan, but if any Leafs fans say "No from Toronto" you really outta have yourself checked out. Burke takes this in a second if offered.

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11-05-2012, 02:21 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoytoSakic View Post
All four of Rielly Bozak MacArthur and Franson would not get you Duchene.
Correct.

Colorado likely wants no part of Bozak unless Duchenne literally GOES MISSING. Like one day it's game day and Duchene is nowhere to be found.

MacArthur had some good moments last year, but he had some brutal stretches too.

And Franson's value has been incredibly low for quite some time now. He was an interesting subject of conversation a few years back when he was playing protected minutes behind Sutter and Weber.

I honestly don't think Leafs fans in their right mind could make a proposal to the Aves for Duchenne which the Aves would actually be interested in. The Aves have a good group of young core players in all positions right now.

They don't want to go back to rebuilding.

They want to see their young players break through to the next level so that they can make the playoffs. This deal leaves a nasty hole at center and they can't expect Reilly to be a real impact player for at least 2-3 years.(That's if he lives upto the hype.)

IMO Toronto would have to overpay something disgusting. Rielly, multiple first rounders and a center.(maybe Bozak) If the Aves are going to trade away their best forward they're going to lose more games and that's going to equal losing more money. Huge setback on multiple fronts.

If Leafs fans want to dangle Rielly around for a center, they're better off talking to Philly IMO.

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Old
11-05-2012, 03:14 AM
  #33
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Considering how Rielly is playing this year, and how bad Duchene was last year, would probably say no from Toronto, at least until we see an updated sample from Duchene.

Team needs might push it closer, but Duchene doesn't really seem like the center we need. Don't understand why Colorado would do this anyway. He loves Colorado, and they would be selling him at a low.

As for Toronto, it makes no sense to start trading around our high-end prospects and players for risks, even if it is an area of need.

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Old
11-05-2012, 04:35 AM
  #34
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I don't think Avs have much interest in dialing back the clock on their rebuild nor do I think they are entertaining the idea to trade Duchene.

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11-05-2012, 05:40 AM
  #35
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As a TO fan, I'd do a straight up deal in a heartbeat.

I'd be happy to add a 2nd or Mac / Franson. If the 2nd piece was higher than that, I'd say no.

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Old
11-05-2012, 06:00 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Tortorella View Post
Leafs won't tank imo. A perpetual 5th-7th seed is what I see for a few years until Reilly arives.
I'd like to see Toronto become a 5-7 seed ONCE before we start talking about "perpetually" finishing there.

No offense intended, I definitely think the Leafs are moving forward and I think a 5-7 finish in the East is there for the taking in Toronto, but let's not put the wagon before the horse. Do it once, then we'll talk about doing it long-term.

For the record, if Colorado ever actually proposed this deal, the Leafs would be fools not to take it. Fills a huge need, and the price (Rielly - the #5 pick in a fairly bad draft year) is phenomenally reasonable.

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Old
11-05-2012, 06:32 AM
  #37
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I can't imagine any Leaf fan would turn down a trade of Reilly for Duchesne straight up. Duchesne plugs a huge gaping hole for the Leafs.

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Old
11-05-2012, 06:38 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Toronto would probably have to add...
With the struggles of Matt -- Toronto declines at the moment.

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Old
11-05-2012, 06:42 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
Wtf?
Duchene had 28 points last year. Hardly numbers and a development curve that make you want to give up the potential of Rielly.

Duchene is not a physical player -- if he isn't scoring -- and he isn't, he's not that effective. As his -11 and 1 goal in the SEL suggest.

Jake Gardiner put up more points than Duchene last year.

Reilly is untouchable from the Leafs point of view, imo, since he's the best prospect they have had in years.

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11-05-2012, 06:44 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by FanHabtic View Post
I can't imagine any Leaf fan would turn down a trade of Reilly for Duchesne straight up. Duchesne plugs a huge gaping hole for the Leafs.
A mid-sized, center that skates well and gets 50 points a year? Got that in Bozak and Grabovski. Duchene needs to play better, a LOT better, before he is considered the type of player the myths and legends around here make him out to be. 28 points does not cut it.

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Old
11-05-2012, 06:48 AM
  #41
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I'm unbiased and at this time IMO Duchene is worth more than Reilly. But I totally understand Leafs fans attachment to Reilly. His potential offers hope for the future. I often find myself making similiar arguments for Jet prospects and young players, since that's where your hope for a better future lies.

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11-05-2012, 06:51 AM
  #42
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Old
11-05-2012, 07:00 AM
  #43
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Honestly, I would rather do Gardiner plus a significant peice like one of Lupul/JVR/Kulemin going back for Duchene instead of dealing Rielly. Yes, I know Duchene is worth more than Rielly but I really want us to build our defence around Rielly, he looks impressive for an 18 year old and he has so much to offer offensively and shows impressive growth on the defensive side.

Rielly seems the type of defender you build your defence around especially when Phaneuf can be along-side him as a top-pairing d-man.

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11-05-2012, 07:15 AM
  #44
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Duchene is worth much more and it isn't even close.

If Colorado is looking to dump Duchene I'm sure they could do better.

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11-05-2012, 07:20 AM
  #45
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Duchene definitely has more value at the moment.

But this is one of those trades that could really bite either team hard in the foot. Rielly could pretty much bust, become a bottom pairing guy or even not become an NHLer, then Colorado gets completely schooled.

On the other hand if Rielly became one of the top young D, right up there with Pietrangelo, Doughty, OEL, Karlsson, etc (not saying it's likely btw), then Colorado likely wins the deal.

But then again we also don't know exactly how Duchene is going to pan out. Maybe he has a huge breakout season and starts to consistently put up ~80 points, or maybe his ceiling ends up being ~55-65 points.

So yea, at the moment Duchene DOES have more value. But when the value for both players is heavily weighted in potential, it's really an impossible trade to predict.

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Old
11-05-2012, 07:23 AM
  #46
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What's with the recent bombardment of Avs proposals?

Certainly not for this deal, it would be foolish to trade someone as valuable as Duchy for less than market value in a #1 center starved league.

I wouldn't mind Reilly, he'd be the best prospect in our system easily, but we've got two capable guys in Barrie/Elliott and there's nothing else really valuable coming our way while we wait 2-3 years for Reilly to start to make an impact in the NHL.

We need a defender Duchy's age, not younger.

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Old
11-05-2012, 07:39 AM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
What's with the recent bombardment of Avs proposals?
Probably cause you have Stastny/ROR/Duchene so people view Colorado as one of the few teams with an "expendable" top centre.

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11-05-2012, 08:58 AM
  #48
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I cringed as a clicked the thread, but then it turned out it was an Avs fan making the proposal.

Value just isn't there for the Avs. Leafs would have to add.

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Old
11-05-2012, 09:03 AM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
What's with the recent bombardment of Avs proposals?

Certainly not for this deal, it would be foolish to trade someone as valuable as Duchy for less than market value in a #1 center starved league.

I wouldn't mind Reilly, he'd be the best prospect in our system easily, but we've got two capable guys in Barrie/Elliott and there's nothing else really valuable coming our way while we wait 2-3 years for Reilly to start to make an impact in the NHL.

We need a defender Duchy's age, not younger.
lets be realistic elliott and barrie dont have the upside Reilly does

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Old
11-05-2012, 09:03 AM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whydidijoin View Post
Considering how Rielly is playing this year, and how bad Duchene was last year, would probably say no from Toronto, at least until we see an updated sample from Duchene.

Team needs might push it closer, but Duchene doesn't really seem like the center we need. Don't understand why Colorado would do this anyway. He loves Colorado, and they would be selling him at a low.

As for Toronto, it makes no sense to start trading around our high-end prospects and players for risks, even if it is an area of need.
Ah ok then, instead the Avs then offer 7th round pick, Colin Smith.

Considering how GREAT he's playing this year in JUNIOR, should be a great deal, right.

For the record, I'm one of Morgan Rielly's biggest fans and supporters, I DO believe he was the best d-man from the draft, (had him ranked #2 overall) and I firmly believe he'll be a top pairing d-man, perhaps even a 'Franchise D-man'. However, there are no guarantees that will happen and when you compare him with a kid that's already done what Duchene has done in his first 3 years as a pro and the potential he still has to develop, it's not close for now.

Call me crazy, but my belief is that when Morgan Rielly actually does start playing for the Leafs, he's going to do so well his first few years that Leaf fans will consider him untouchable...kinda like Avs fans feel about Matt Duchene!!! OMGZZ?!?!???! [well, those that understand that what you see as an 18,19,20 year old isn't necessarily the same thing that you're gonna get once a player hits 25-26 years of age lol]

I'll ask again, show me ONE player that has done what Duchene has done as an 18+19 year old (122 pts in 2 seasons) that has gone on to become a HUGE bust that couldn't put up points at that level again that wasn't due to serious injury.

Quote:
Originally Posted by birddog View Post
Duchene had 28 points last year. Hardly numbers and a development curve that make you want to give up the potential of Rielly.

Duchene is not a physical player -- if he isn't scoring -- and he isn't, he's not that effective. As his -11 and 1 goal in the SEL suggest.

Jake Gardiner put up more points than Duchene last year.

Reilly is untouchable from the Leafs point of view, imo, since he's the best prospect they have had in years.
There's a lot of great insight in this post. ALL of the information is there and there's absolutely nothing misleading in there at all. Bravo!

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