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Johnny Heismanziel Appreciation Thread

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11-05-2012, 08:52 AM
  #51
End of Line
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MurrayBannerman View Post
Te'o's constantly the best player on the field and makes incredibly clutch plays. Not to mention, he's leading a top two defensive unit that has talent deficiencies, according to the experts.

Also, he's not just the best player, he's also the team's leader.
Ryan Shazier has similar stats, makes clutch plays, and is the best player on the defensive side of the ball. No D player should be up for it unless they are putting up Suh like numbers or playing both sides of the ball like Woodson.

Just for clarification:

Shazier: 99 Total tackles (59 solo/40 assisted), 4 sacks, 1 int, 1 TD, 7 PD, 11.5 TFL, 2 FF

Te'o: 86 Total tackles (36 solo/50 assisted), 1.5 sacks, 5 int, 4 PD, 5.5 TFL

http://espn.go.com/college-football/...0/ryan-shazier
http://espn.go.com/college-football/...7633/manti-teo

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Last edited by End of Line: 11-05-2012 at 10:27 AM. Reason: More stats
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11-05-2012, 08:54 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
whats the status of the Klein injury?

I think Barner vaulted into the top 2 this past weekend IMO
Same, especially since he closes out the last month of the season with (probably) 4 games, of which 3 are going to be big matchups (Stanford, Oregon State, PAC-12 championship) where he's not going to be getting rested in most of the 2nd half like he has for the early part of the season.

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11-05-2012, 09:44 AM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by End of Line View Post
Ryan Shazier has similar stats, makes clutch plays, and is the best player on the defensive side of the ball. No D player should be up for it unless they are putting up Suh like numbers or playing both sides of the ball like Woodson.

Just for clarification:

Shazier: 99 Total tackles (59 solo/40 assisted), 4 sacks, 1 int, 1 TD, 7 PD

Te'o: 86 Total tackles (36 solo/50 assisted), 1.5 sacks, 5 int, 4 PD

http://espn.go.com/college-football/...0/ryan-shazier
http://espn.go.com/college-football/...7633/manti-teo
And Te'o has elevated a less talented unit to one of the top two defensive units in the country. Shazier hasn't done that.

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11-05-2012, 09:49 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by MurrayBannerman View Post
And Te'o has elevated a less talented unit to one of the top two defensive units in the country. Shazier hasn't done that.
This a individual award, not a team award despite Notre Dame and Ohio State having similar team D stats.

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11-05-2012, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by End of Line View Post
This a individual award, not a team award despite Notre Dame and Ohio State having similar team D stats.
Against lesser opposition

So you're saying that a player can't elevate the play of those around them?

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11-05-2012, 10:28 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by MurrayBannerman View Post
Against lesser opposition

So you're saying that a player can't elevate the play of those around them?
I never said that. What I am saying is that the Heisman is an individual award, and his stats are not good enough, that's all.

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11-05-2012, 11:22 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by End of Line View Post
I never said that. What I am saying is that the Heisman is an individual award, and his stats are not good enough, that's all.
And I'm saying that a big part of why he's in the conversation is how he's uplifted that defense.

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11-05-2012, 11:42 AM
  #58
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Everyone knows Corn Belt Tebow is going to win it. The rest of the candidates are wasting their time

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11-05-2012, 02:34 PM
  #59
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http://twitter.com/richarddeitsch/st...52338981384192
Quote:
SI.com's current Heisman rankings from @ZacEllis: 1. Collin Klein; 2. AJ McCarron; 3. Kenjon Barner: *******/WrwtAl

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11-05-2012, 03:26 PM
  #60
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McCarron at #2!?

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11-05-2012, 06:03 PM
  #61
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McCarron at #2!?
Didn't you know, a single good drive against a bad prevent defense is enough to vault you to near the top of the Heisman race.

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11-05-2012, 06:24 PM
  #62
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Undeserving QB on far away best team winning it is kind of a Heisman classic though.

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11-10-2012, 05:56 PM
  #63
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I think we need to add Johnny Football's name to this discussion after the way he has shredded the vaunted 'Bama defense todday. (yeah, he's a redshirt freshman, blah blah blah, but he should at least qualify to make the trip to NYC)

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11-10-2012, 06:19 PM
  #64
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Manziel should be #2 in Heisman race behind Klein right now.

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11-10-2012, 06:25 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sniugneP View Post
Manziel should be #2 in Heisman race behind Klein right now.
I wouldn't place him above Te'o...

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11-10-2012, 06:26 PM
  #66
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Te'o should be #2, but he won't be.

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11-10-2012, 07:46 PM
  #67
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1. Colin Klein
2. Manti Te'o
2a. Kenjon Barner
4. Johnny Manziel
5. Braxton Miller

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11-11-2012, 12:52 AM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LatvianTwist View Post
1. Colin Klein
2. Manti Te'o
2a. Kenjon Barner
4. Johnny Manziel
5. Braxton Miller
Sounds about right.

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11-11-2012, 09:40 AM
  #69
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1. Collin Klein (2,020 YDS 12td 3int, 748 YDS rush 18 TD's)
2. Braxton Miller (1,753 YDS 14 TD's 6 INT's, 1,106 YDS rush 16 TD's)
3. Johnny Manziel (2,780 YDS 18 TD's 6 INT's, 1,014 YDS rush 15 TD's)
4. Marqise Lee (98 Receptions, 1,447 Yards Rec, 13 TD's)
5. Kenjon Barner (1,360 YDS 19 TD's)

Regarding Te'o, if a defensive player is up for the Heisman, they need more than 5.5 TFL and 1.5 sacks. He can be a coverage guy all he wants but his stats aren't that great for a ILB other than INT's.


Last edited by End of Line: 11-11-2012 at 09:51 AM.
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11-11-2012, 09:53 AM
  #70
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Tweet from Heismanpundit last night that makes a salient point:

Chris Huston ‏@HeismanPundit
Was wondering how Te'o was doing tonight. Checked the box score….nothing there! This's 1 reason why defensive players can't win the Heisman.

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11-11-2012, 09:59 AM
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Epsilon View Post
Tweet from Heismanpundit last night that makes a salient point:

Chris Huston ‏@HeismanPundit
Was wondering how Te'o was doing tonight. Checked the box score….nothing there! This's 1 reason why defensive players can't win the Heisman.
5 tackles last night = a Heisman!

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11-11-2012, 10:08 AM
  #72
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Unless you have a year like Suh (52 solo/33 assisted, 85 total, 20 TFL, 12 Sacks, 1 INT) or AJ Hawk (69 solo/52 assisted, 121 total, 16.5 TFL, 9.5 Sacks, 1 INT) in their senior years a defensive player shouldn't be up for it.

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11-11-2012, 10:10 AM
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by End of Line View Post
1. Collin Klein (2,020 YDS 12td 3int, 748 YDS rush 18 TD's)
2. Braxton Miller (1,753 YDS 14 TD's 6 INT's, 1,106 YDS rush 16 TD's)
3. Johnny Manziel (2,780 YDS 18 TD's 6 INT's, 1,014 YDS rush 15 TD's)
4. Marqise Lee (98 Receptions, 1,447 Yards Rec, 13 TD's)
5. Kenjon Barner (1,360 YDS 19 TD's)

Regarding Te'o, if a defensive player is up for the Heisman, they need more than 5.5 TFL and 1.5 sacks. He can be a coverage guy all he wants but his stats aren't that great for a ILB other than INT's.
Any reason why Miller's over Manziel? Just curious, not trying to say it's not right or anything.

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11-11-2012, 10:18 AM
  #74
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Originally Posted by LatvianTwist View Post
Any reason why Miller's over Manziel? Just curious, not trying to say it's not right or anything.
Miller and tOSU is undefeated, Texas A&M is not. Miller's numbers mainly rushing, would also be higher if he didn't have a RB carrying it 20-25 times a game as well (Carlos Hyde) who missed 2 games this year already.

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11-11-2012, 10:50 AM
  #75
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Miller and tOSU is undefeated, Texas A&M is not. Miller's numbers mainly rushing, would also be higher if he didn't have a RB carrying it 20-25 times a game as well (Carlos Hyde) who missed 2 games this year already.
Fair enough. Team records do play a huge part in this, more than I'd like them to, but that's not gonna change any time soon.

I don't think he passes enough to be a serious candidate, but he definitely deserves to be mentioned.

With the RB argument though, that's almost every dual threat QB. He still gets at least 15-20 carries a game. You could make the same argument for Manziel, and also that he's been a more consistent runner with less carries per game (15.6 for Manziel, 18.4 for Miller). They're also putting up very similar YPC numbers (Manziel at 6.5, Miller at 6.34). At the same time, Manziel's passing dwarfs Miller's, and while the argument could be made that Miller isn't getting enough attempts, he has a rather poor comp. % and I'm willing to bet his coaches don't trust him throwing the ball that much (haven't watched but a couple games). Take out the disaster against LSU and Manziel looks even better compared to Miller.

Of course, that's only really going by statistics. I'd love to see these two play, but that doesn't seem to be in the cards. Regardless, Klein's pretty much got this one wrapped up, so there's not much point in debating it.

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