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Old
11-04-2012, 12:35 AM
  #926
Shellz
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Originally Posted by Chazz Reinhold View Post
Jamal Mayers and Mike Rupp don't see it.
I didn't even know Mayers was still in the NHL.

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11-04-2012, 08:48 AM
  #927
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Originally Posted by Chazz Reinhold View Post
Jamal Mayers and Mike Rupp don't see it.
I don't see this about Fehr's ego at all, I see the PA finally getting a guy in who won't cave. I also like how much better and involved the players are this time around. Bettman and the owners now realize they aren't dealing with a bunch of small town guys who want a deal done at any cost like in the past.

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11-04-2012, 12:11 PM
  #928
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Apparently, negotiations are ongoing. I have not been on this board much the past few years due to my business and personal ongoings, so I do not know if hockeybuzz site is not allowed to be posted. Sorry, if this is the case and mods can erase this. I only am posting this, cuz I want to believe and want hockey back.

HockeyBuzz:

Not yet. There is however, hope tonight...

I was told the meeting continued so long because Steve Fehr and Bill Daly were riding the first wave of momentum we have seen, but I was also cautioned to not celebrate yet. It is time to maintain an even keel.

The sides even time traveled tonight as they negotiated from 1 am until 2am twice (due to the changing of the clocks)

It will be an interesting Sunday to say the least... Talk in a few hours. Sleep is for the weak!

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Old
11-04-2012, 01:13 PM
  #929
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Originally Posted by MsWoof View Post
I don't see this about Fehr's ego at all, I see the PA finally getting a guy in who won't cave. I also like how much better and involved the players are this time around. Bettman and the owners now realize they aren't dealing with a bunch of small town guys who want a deal done at any cost like in the past.
I'm not sure what league you are talking about, but it sure ain't the NHL.

The last time the players refused to "cave," we lost an entire season. As is seemingly the case now...so the players can lose millions while gaining thousands, assuming the league resumes play next season.

And I also don't understand your "done deal at any cost." I mean, we lost an entire season. What choice did the players have last time, but come back and play? Lose another season? And another season's pay?

I really don't understand your post at all.

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11-04-2012, 05:11 PM
  #930
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Biznasty scored 70 seconds into his debut for the Devils yesterday, and is now going to be moved to play defence next game. What could go wrong?

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11-04-2012, 05:41 PM
  #931
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Originally Posted by Ron View Post
I'm not sure what league you are talking about, but it sure ain't the NHL.

The last time the players refused to "cave," we lost an entire season. As is seemingly the case now...so the players can lose millions while gaining thousands, assuming the league resumes play next season.

And I also don't understand your "done deal at any cost." I mean, we lost an entire season. What choice did the players have last time, but come back and play? Lose another season? And another season's pay?

I really don't understand your post at all.
It's the principle. They gave back 24% of their salaries and had crappy leadership. They can't give in again, especially when the league is bringing in so much more money now. I know you're on the owners' side but I'm not.

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11-04-2012, 05:51 PM
  #932
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It's the principle. They gave back 24% of their salaries and had crappy leadership. They can't give in again, especially when the league is bringing in so much more money now. I know you're on the owners' side but I'm not.
They may have "given" a lot last time, but it managed to be a huge win for the players in the long run. Just because they "lost" (which is a terrible misnomer, by the way) doesn't mean the owners should "lose" this time. The owners have every right to ensure their business is a profitable one.

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11-04-2012, 05:52 PM
  #933
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Originally Posted by MsWoof View Post
It's the principle. They gave back 24% of their salaries and had crappy leadership. They can't give in again, especially when the league is bringing in so much more money now. I know you're on the owners' side but I'm not.
If your making business decisions on this "principle" you need to evaluate your leadership. The fact that you think last time they had weak leadership and gave in is laughable. If this thing goes a full season again, Fehr is gonna look just as "weak" on the other end. People don't realize how easy it is for the owners because most are actually losing money. No real debate on the season, makes them 100 times stronger because their decision actually makes financial sense as well, unlike the players.

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Old
11-04-2012, 06:05 PM
  #934
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Originally Posted by MsWoof View Post
It's the principle. They gave back 24% of their salaries and had crappy leadership. They can't give in again, especially when the league is bringing in so much more money now. I know you're on the owners' side but I'm not.
I'm on the side that wants to play hockey, and logic tells me (and should tell you as well) that the owners have the deck stacked.

"Principle" means lost revenue, for both the players and the owners. But the players have a hell of a lot more to lose, every day they that they just sit idly by. Why do you think many are opting to go play in Europe and Russia?

If they continue to follow Fehr, then they go down. It speaks volumes that many players now are pushing Fehr to get to the negotiating table. They want this thing DONE.

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Old
11-05-2012, 12:28 AM
  #935
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Originally Posted by MsWoof View Post
It's the principle. They gave back 24% of their salaries and had crappy leadership. They can't give in again, especially when the league is bringing in so much more money now. I know you're on the owners' side but I'm not.
You don't have the luxury of principle, when you assume ZERO of the financial risk(in the industry you are in).

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Old
11-05-2012, 02:12 AM
  #936
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The players will never owe somebody or someone money as a result of playing in NHL.

I'm 70% on owners side in this.

Now get it done.

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Old
11-05-2012, 02:33 AM
  #937
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I am on no one's side, I simply understand the owners point of view.

The players are lacking one, well at least one that makes sense.

The majority of owners are more than happy, to not play hockey at all.

There is no Billion Dollar T.V deal to miss out on, their are no armies of casual fans to alienate.

Their is no NY Yankee's or Boston Redsox's around to subsidize 8 to 10 Loser franchises.

There is only Player cost.......

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Old
11-05-2012, 02:43 AM
  #938
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alpa View Post
The players will never owe somebody or someone money as a result of playing in NHL.

I'm 70% on owners side in this.

Now get it done.
I don't understand what you mean by the bolded. I'm on nobody's side, both sides make sense to me. I think the real crux of the matter is that there are too many teams in failed locations and the CBA run-around will not stop until that stops. I think the players know it too, their position will only get worse and worse as these few teams accumulate more debt due to not being economically viable.

Also to be considered is that it is much more difficult to restructure debt these days and some of these clubs will no doubt have to do it if this continues. So will the players. There is no telling how long this will last nor how soon it will end. Rather than take another haircut the players and non-revenue rich owners both decided to take their stand. No fun for anyone.

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Old
11-05-2012, 02:49 AM
  #939
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Originally Posted by Live in the Now View Post
I don't understand what you mean by the bolded. I'm on nobody's side, both sides make sense to me. I think the real crux of the matter is that there are too many teams in failed locations and the CBA run-around will not stop until that stops. I think the players know it too, their position will only get worse and worse as these few teams accumulate more debt due to not being economically viable.
That has more to do with the NHL being more gate driven than anything.

What happens when the Canadian dollar falls again (it will happen).

Then EDM,OTT,CAL,WINN are all in trouble again....

PHX and ATL are about the only example's of really piss poor location.

The NHL does not have a Billion Dollar (yearly) T.V. deal to hide failed Franchises like the MLB/NFL does.

The JacksonVille Jags have ZERO FANS. But it still makes money.

The only way to solve that issue is, contraction (Which nether side wants to do).

Side NOTE.

The other thing to remember is ; the owners losing money are not the driving force behind this (Personal view).

The people driving this are; TOR,MTL,BOS,PITT,PHI,NYR. Those owners DO NOT want to subsidize the league. The only Reason teams like the Yankees/Redsox are ok doing that in MLB; is because the luxury tax is a drop in the bucket for them.

The Yankees make about 300 million off the Yes network yearly. Same for the Redsox(their own cable Deal), they don't care about the 60 million they are shoving into the luxury tax system.

The NHL owners DON"T WANT THAT. Most importantly they can't afford it.


Last edited by damacles1156: 11-05-2012 at 06:45 AM.
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Old
11-05-2012, 09:51 AM
  #940
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Originally Posted by damacles1156 View Post

The other thing to remember is ; the owners losing money are not the driving force behind this (Personal view).

The people driving this are; TOR,MTL,BOS,PITT,PHI,NYR. Those owners DO NOT want to subsidize the league. The only Reason teams like the Yankees/Redsox are ok doing that in MLB; is because the luxury tax is a drop in the bucket for them.
It's been speculated by reputable reporters (such as Elliott Friedman) that it is the teams losing money who are the driving forces behind this. Anaheim, Dallas, St. Louis, Colorado, Florida, and the Islanders are all teams he listed (that I can recall off the top of my head) recently as teams being the most hardline in this.

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Old
11-05-2012, 10:02 AM
  #941
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MsWoof View Post
It's the principle. They gave back 24% of their salaries and had crappy leadership. They can't give in again, especially when the league is bringing in so much more money now. I know you're on the owners' side but I'm not.
ah, the myth of the 24%. Always so conviently conveyed without mentioning that the players at the time were taking in 70% of the Hockey Related Revenue.

But they did gain a lot of additional rights with regards to Free Agency. Rather than hitting Free Agency at 31 players not come up unrestricted at 28, 27 or even 26. In their prime. So they can hit the market and earn those monster contracts.

In the last CBA they were 'forced' down to a meagre 57%. But those 57% has increased about 700-800 million dollars. From 1.1 Billion dollars to almost 1.9 billion dollars. Per year.

The myth of the poorly treated players must come to an end. They, as a group, declared war on the owners when they hired Donald Fehr. They were going to get paid - every single dollar possible. There was never any chance that these negotiations would end in time for the season to start early october. No. Chance. In. Hell.

With the recent development with the owners pretty much offering to pay the players their full contracts, it may end up with the players looking like "winners" in these negotiations. It could end up a Pyrrhic victory if the overall revenue drops. One can only hope.

And these negotiations, btw, is basically to divvy up all that wonderful money they can extort directly from the fans. I hope there's a backlash so that both owners and players get taught a lesson.

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Old
11-05-2012, 10:22 AM
  #942
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The 1998-99 NBA season didn't start until February. Do we still have hope?

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Old
11-05-2012, 10:26 AM
  #943
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And if the NHL accepts what ever the players want, precedent is set that you can only get what you want once?? How many times has the NHL cut back the years to UFA status? How about RFA rights? The only thing the players can "give up" is money. Everything else always comes from management in the way of contract rights. This whole precedent arguement makes no sense...because then the NHL would be giving up nothing this time....

If you and your wife didn't have sex last nite, and she says no tonite, does that mean your not going to get any tomorrow? And that you should keep her up tonite until you do?
Put yourself in both parties shoes. I know as a player or a worker since I'm not an NHL player that if I went for a new contract every 5 years I took a pay cut then I would look for other work. I'm supposed to get paid more money as I get older because there will come a time where I can no longer work and the way I work is supposed to be more important as the years go by. If you don't understand legal precedent and how lawyers work then my argument is completely lost on you. These guys don't just throw crap on the wall and see if it sticks. At one point in time the players made dick. The owners had complete control and players worked regular jobs in the offseason. Over the years the system has changed drastically, you are seeing athletes be able to afford to buy stakes in teams because they made so much money so the relationship went from boss-employee to financial partners. The owners want to make more money, the players make too much money so you have a lockout where neither side can afford to budge. If you sign another CBA where there are roll backs are you saying there is no reason to expect more rollbacks the next time the CBA expires?

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11-05-2012, 10:48 AM
  #944
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grillinnap View Post
The 1998-99 NBA season didn't start until February. Do we still have hope?
I doubt it. I am leaning to a full season lockout after the Winter Classic got cancelled. I don't see them coming to an agreement until next summer. Will make for a crazy free agency and trading free-for-all.

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11-05-2012, 12:41 PM
  #945
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Can the playoffs be pushed back as far as July to fit a more meaningful season in if the season doesnt start till winter classic?

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11-05-2012, 12:58 PM
  #946
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Can the playoffs be pushed back as far as July to fit a more meaningful season in if the season doesnt start till winter classic?
Bettman already said they would push the season back one month (July) when they put in the last proposal...but that would be the latest they push back.

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Old
11-05-2012, 02:43 PM
  #947
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I don't understand what you mean by the bolded. I'm on nobody's side, both sides make sense to me. I think the real crux of the matter is that there are too many teams in failed locations and the CBA run-around will not stop until that stops. I think the players know it too, their position will only get worse and worse as these few teams accumulate more debt due to not being economically viable.

Also to be considered is that it is much more difficult to restructure debt these days and some of these clubs will no doubt have to do it if this continues. So will the players. There is no telling how long this will last nor how soon it will end. Rather than take another haircut the players and non-revenue rich owners both decided to take their stand. No fun for anyone.
I think owners losing money is the crux. Player's don't have debt's as a result of playing in the NHL, that is what I meant. As others have mentioned players don't have a financial risk. When this thing started I was not interested in picking any side since I wanted to get a bigger picture but now I feel that players or should I say NHLPA's argument has gotten a lot thinner and they are stalling this negotiations and keeping my beloved Kings apart in different leagues all over the world. I want to see them defend their title but this season doesn't give me that great feeling even if they would start skating tomorrow. They ****ed this up for all of us.

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Old
11-05-2012, 03:45 PM
  #948
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alpa View Post
I think owners losing money is the crux. Player's don't have debt's as a result of playing in the NHL, that is what I meant. As others have mentioned players don't have a financial risk. When this thing started I was not interested in picking any side since I wanted to get a bigger picture but now I feel that players or should I say NHLPA's argument has gotten a lot thinner and they are stalling this negotiations and keeping my beloved Kings apart in different leagues all over the world. I want to see them defend their title but this season doesn't give me that great feeling even if they would start skating tomorrow. They ****ed this up for all of us.
And my point is I have no reason as a fan of the NHL to expect more cuts in the next CBA. Why wouldn't you continue to cut what players are paid if you're an owner?

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11-05-2012, 05:06 PM
  #949
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And my point is I have no reason as a fan of the NHL to expect more cuts in the next CBA. Why wouldn't you continue to cut what players are paid if you're an owner?

If the owners get to 50-50 then they have lost their future argument to make any cuts and I expect the future contracts to get to more reasonable level and length. The loopholes are closing in this CBA. So owners economic stupidity should be in the passed.

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11-05-2012, 05:31 PM
  #950
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Hey Kings fans - interviewed the club's strength coach, Ryan Van Asten. Hope you enjoy, he's a really interesting guy.

http://www.anguscertified.com/an-int...angeles-kings/

Quote:
What are your plans with the lockout? Do you work with the AHL affiliate in Manchester?

Currently I have been spending a significant amount of time in Manchester, New Hampshire with our AHL affiliate team the Monarchs. I’d like to have as much involvement with these players as possible so the transition from the AHL to NHL is seamless.

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