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Sven Bärtshi vs Mikael Granlund

View Poll Results: Sven Bärtshi vs Mikael Granlund
Bärtshi 125 40.85%
Granlund 163 53.27%
Same 18 5.88%
Voters: 306. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
11-04-2012, 05:16 PM
  #76
Tuomaz
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Granlund's playmaking skills are already better than Mikko Koivu's. It seems Flame fans are arguing here Baerchis playmaking>Koivu's. Nice

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11-04-2012, 06:13 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by urho View Post
I agree on skating but how is Granlund "mediocre" defensively? He's one of the best takeaway-machines you'll see and is very reliable in his own end.



I don't think Bärtschi has quite the same playmaking-abilities that Granlund has. Mikke's style of playmaking is almost unique, he's master at drawing defensive players towards him and then make a perfect pass to who ever's left open. Sven has the physicality and skating, tho.
im at work right now but go look up sven on youtube and watch the playoff compilation from last year and youll see how amazing his play making is. maybe not as good as granlunds but not off by much

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11-05-2012, 02:52 AM
  #78
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im at work right now but go look up sven on youtube and watch the playoff compilation from last year and youll see how amazing his play making is. maybe not as good as granlunds but not off by much
I watched those and lots of them are nice plays.



Even so, some of Mikael's plays make you think that no one else would've seen that one coming. These highlights show a few of them. And they're all against pro players.

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11-05-2012, 06:03 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by tmurfin View Post
A YouTube vid of them shooting around from a distance ? Nice.. They aren't alike, I like Ma. Granlund but he is definately a notch or two below Sven and Mi.
Definitely this. Markus is clearly a step below his older brother and Bärtshi. I have seen about 50-70 games of Markus and Mikael in live. I will say this every time, Mikael is much better hockey player than Markus.

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11-05-2012, 06:06 AM
  #80
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I will say this every time, Mikael is much better hockey player than Markus.
I'd go as far as saying Mikael is better in every meaningful aspect of the game. Makke is not a bad player, tho. I do have some doubts about him having a NHL-career...

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11-05-2012, 06:12 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Tuomaz View Post
Granlund's playmaking skills are already better than Mikko Koivu's. It seems Flame fans are arguing here Baerchis playmaking>Koivu's. Nice
Baertchi NHL goals = 3 goals
Granlund NHL goals = 0 goals

Therefore, Baertchi > Granlund

I counter your dumb logic with my dumb logic.

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11-05-2012, 06:18 AM
  #82
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This thread is joke. Who is this Bärtsi-guy?

Things in Calgary aren't well when they are comparing their swissyboy for Baby Jesus himself.

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11-05-2012, 06:42 AM
  #83
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I'd go as far as saying Mikael is better in every meaningful aspect of the game. Makke is not a bad player, tho. I do have some doubts about him having a NHL-career...
What's wrong with Markus? Isn't he more than a year younger? I would say Mikael is just better but not in every meaningful aspect of the game. It goes like this:

skating: Markus better
stickhandling: pretty even or Markus even better
shot: pretty even and Markus has more potential to develop
scoring: Mikael for some odd reason, Markus has room to improve
defensive play: Mikael but Markus will improve
size: pretty even, Markus is an inch taller but needs to bulk up
playmaking: Mikael
--------------------------------------------------------------
So, it seems that Mikael is better simply because he is a better playmaker. But he is not better in "every meaningful aspect of the game".

And it's the same with Baertschi -- Granlund is better simply because he is better "playmaker" or more generally his hockey sense/vision is more developed, or because of the "it" factor. Simple and obvious.

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11-05-2012, 07:08 AM
  #84
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Not saying that whos better but the guys who are claiming that Granlund is average two-way player is very wrong and haven't seen him much. Granlund is also very physical when he plays as a winger but as a center you can't go out of the position and constantly giving hits. Granlund has special offensive vision. We can count players with that kind of vision by single hand. Granlund was the biggest reason why finland won WC gold after 11 years of break. But comparing their international plays isn't smart because there isn't as much support in swiss team.

Bärtchi has played many years in the NA. This is first year for Granlund and in the first games we have only seen touch of his potential. Let him get little more time in the small rink and i see Granlund dominating.


Last edited by thomast: 11-05-2012 at 07:16 AM.
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11-05-2012, 03:07 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Sly View Post
Baertchi NHL goals = 3 goals
Granlund NHL goals = 0 goals

Therefore, Baertchi > Granlund

I counter your dumb logic with my dumb logic.
I don't know about that. If you are arguing that Baertschi does everything Granlund does then you are implying that Baertschi is as good playmaker as Granlund. Well, if that is the case and Granlund's playmaking > Koivu' playmaking then Baertschi really is better playmaker than Koivu. It's not dumb logic. So, instead you should say something like - well, if Granlund is already better than Koivu (in playmaking) then why couldn't Baertschi be that, too... But no, you seem to think that the whole idea is absurd, "dumb" and Baertschi is far from being as good playmaker as Koivu. And we have Granlund > Koivu >> Baertschi (playmaking skills). This might be true and would explain why Granlund is better than Baertschi.

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11-05-2012, 03:10 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Tuomaz View Post
Granlund's playmaking skills are already better than Mikko Koivu's. It seems Flame fans are arguing here Baerchis playmaking>Koivu's. Nice
Oh thats funny. No he isn't.

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11-05-2012, 03:30 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by InfinityIggy View Post
Oh thats funny. No he isn't.
It's not that funny. Granlund's playmaking skills are better. Granlund is a pure talent in that regard. As Thomast said above we can count players with Granlund's kind of vision by single hand.

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11-05-2012, 03:38 PM
  #88
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Oh thats funny. No he isn't.
Yes he is. At least I'm quite sure of it, seeing them play in the same team and all.

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11-05-2012, 03:43 PM
  #89
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Granlund is the better playmaker, Bartschi is better at pretty much everything else, except stickhandling which is a wash.

Bartschi is definitely more well rounded, but Granlund is such a good playmaker that it's too close to call.

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11-05-2012, 04:10 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Loffer View Post
It's not that funny. Granlund's playmaking skills are better. Granlund is a pure talent in that regard. As Thomast said above we can count players with Granlund's kind of vision by single hand.

Crosby
Sedin
Getzlaf
Thornton
Karlsson
Spezza
RNH

Ooops...I forgot to stop at 5.

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11-05-2012, 04:11 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Loffer View Post
I don't know about that. If you are arguing that Baertschi does everything Granlund does then you are implying that Baertschi is as good playmaker as Granlund. Well, if that is the case and Granlund's playmaking > Koivu' playmaking then Baertschi really is better playmaker than Koivu. It's not dumb logic. So, instead you should say something like - well, if Granlund is already better than Koivu (in playmaking) then why couldn't Baertschi be that, too... But no, you seem to think that the whole idea is absurd, "dumb" and Baertschi is far from being as good playmaker as Koivu. And we have Granlund > Koivu >> Baertschi (playmaking skills). This might be true and would explain why Granlund is better than Baertschi.
I really don't get it. Why do you think Granlund's playmaking is better than Koivu's? Do you have any numbers to prove that? You stated this multiple times and you use it as an argument against Bärtschi. But all I can see is a "His playmaking is better than Koivu's because I said so!" type of argument from your side. That's something I'd expect from a 1st grader. But since I think that you aren't a first grader, I hope you have something to prove your opinion.

I'm sorry, but your responses make you look like a massive homer. That's nothing tragical, I'm one by myself (Hey, I voted Bärtschi because I hope he ends up better than Granlund, not because I think he'll be better than Granlund ) as most users on these boards are.

It's okay to vote for Granlund. It's okay to vote for Bärtschi. But it's NOT okay to say one prospect is worse because of his nationality. I mean, it would be understandable if we were talking about a guy from Uganda or something like that. Still not okay, but understandable. But we are talking about Switzerland, a nation that has started to produce NHL players on a regular basis. Guys like Hiller, Gerber, Streit, Josi or Sbisa aren't a product of luck.

And last but not least: It's not okay to sell your opinion as a fact.

I'd agree with you on Granlund > Bärtschi. But you make it look like Granlund >>>>>>>>>>>> Bärtschi, which is laughable. They both had great junior careers so far. One guy was ripping the CHL apart (2.0 ppg) in his sophomore season, the other one proved that he's able to be a (close to) ppg player in a pro league in his draft year.

They are both great prospects with a bright future and very close skill-wise.


Last edited by TheNeutrality: 11-05-2012 at 04:21 PM.
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11-05-2012, 04:41 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by TheNeutrality View Post
I really don't get it. Why do you think Granlund's playmaking is better than Koivu's? Do you have any numbers to prove that? You stated this multiple times and you use it as an argument against Bärtschi. But all I can see is a "His playmaking is better than Koivu's because I said so!" type of argument from your side. That's something I'd expect from a 1st grader. But since I think that you aren't a first grader, I hope you have something to prove your opinion.

I'm sorry, but your responses make you look like a massive homer. That's nothing tragical, I'm one by myself (Hey, I voted Bärtschi because I hope he ends up better than Granlund, not because I think he'll be better than Granlund ) as most users on these boards are.

It's okay to vote for Granlund. It's okay to vote for Bärtschi. But it's NOT okay to say one prospect is worse because of his nationality. I mean, it would be understandable if we were talking about a guy from Uganda or something like that. Still not okay, but understandable. But we are talking about Switzerland, a nation that has started to produce NHL players on a regular basis. Guys like Hiller, Gerber, Streit, Josi or Sbisa aren't a product of luck.

And last but not least: It's not okay to sell your opinion as a fact.

I'd agree with you on Granlund > Bärtschi. But you make it look like Granlund >>>>>>>>>>>> Bärtschi, which is laughable. They both had great junior careers so far. One guy was ripping the CHL apart (2.0 ppg) in his sophomore season, the other one proved that he's able to be a (close to) ppg player in a pro league in his draft year.

They are both great prospects with a bright future and very close skill-wise.

Pretty much every finn who have seen them play many times will tell you that Granlund's playmaking and vision are already better than Koivu's. This is a classic case where you, who clearly haven't seen Koivu and Granlund play nearly as much as for example Loffer. Then you open NHL.com and see Koivu's number and look up Granlund and see that he has not yet played in NHL then you attack with arguments "you sound like a 1st grade student" and so on. But you could have looked up their numbers in FEL and there you can see the difference in Granlund and Koivu.

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11-05-2012, 04:56 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by President Van Buren View Post
Crosby
Sedin
Getzlaf
Thornton
Karlsson
Spezza
RNH

Ooops...I forgot to stop at 5.
I would say that Granlund has better vision than some of the players you listed. I've seen many plays from Granlund which haven't been made in the NHL ever. I don't mean lacrosse goal. Let him get used to small NA rinks and watch him play. Of course he might not be even close as succesfull player as many players you mentioned but in pure vision and hockeyIQ he is up there easily. He is small, isn't overly fast. He is just very smart and he can make plays instantly out of nowhere and quickly.

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11-05-2012, 05:18 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by TheNeutrality View Post
I really don't get it. Why do you think Granlund's playmaking is better than Koivu's? Do you have any numbers to prove that? You stated this multiple times and you use it as an argument against Bärtschi. But all I can see is a "His playmaking is better than Koivu's because I said so!" type of argument from your side. That's something I'd expect from a 1st grader. But since I think that you aren't a first grader, I hope you have something to prove your opinion.

I'm sorry, but your responses make you look like a massive homer. That's nothing tragical, I'm one by myself (Hey, I voted Bärtschi because I hope he ends up better than Granlund, not because I think he'll be better than Granlund ) as most users on these boards are.

It's okay to vote for Granlund. It's okay to vote for Bärtschi. But it's NOT okay to say one prospect is worse because of his nationality. I mean, it would be understandable if we were talking about a guy from Uganda or something like that. Still not okay, but understandable. But we are talking about Switzerland, a nation that has started to produce NHL players on a regular basis. Guys like Hiller, Gerber, Streit, Josi or Sbisa aren't a product of luck.

And last but not least: It's not okay to sell your opinion as a fact.

I'd agree with you on Granlund > Bärtschi. But you make it look like Granlund >>>>>>>>>>>> Bärtschi, which is laughable. They both had great junior careers so far. One guy was ripping the CHL apart (2.0 ppg) in his sophomore season, the other one proved that he's able to be a (close to) ppg player in a pro league in his draft year.

They are both great prospects with a bright future and very close skill-wise.
First of all, that nationality thing was a joke making fun of this homerism tendency (especially Canadian one). Maybe it wasn't that funny, I admit. Switzerland is indeed a growing hockey nation and has many good players and prospects, Baertschi being one of the biggest names in that regard. In fact I must say that Baertschi is just top-notch talent, really complete package, great player already.

And Baertschi was indeed one notch higher than Granlund (IIRC) in HF top propsect rankings just recently (9 th?). So, it's really close between the two (I said "and it's not even close" earlier but that was more or less just another "joke").

But if you compare them they seem to be pretty different kind of players in the end - Baertschi being better or as good in almost every conceivable area. So, one must ask how come could Granlund be better or even close to Baertschi if this is the case. (Baertschi better: skating, size --> defensive game (?); about even: shot, scoring, stickhandling). And it's of course only playmaking or hockey sense/vision which makes Granlund as good as he is - and probably even better than Baertschi. And if it makes him better than Baertschi, he really should be one helluva playmaker. -- And he is. Granlund simply can play hockey, no matter what.

But yes, it's a close call, and it can go either way. Baertschi may be more well rounded but Granlund has an edge in playmaking. Maybe Baertschi's skill set translates better but if Granlund can bring his game to the NHL watch out.

And Granlund's been playing in the same national team with Koivu and it just seems that he is better playmaker. (And his stats are much more impressive than Koivu's at the same age but that's a different story.)

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11-05-2012, 05:37 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by thomast View Post
I would say that Granlund has better vision than some of the players you listed. I've seen many plays from Granlund which haven't been made in the NHL ever. I don't mean lacrosse goal. Let him get used to small NA rinks and watch him play. Of course he might not be even close as succesfull player as many players you mentioned but in pure vision and hockeyIQ he is up there easily. He is small, isn't overly fast. He is just very smart and he can make plays instantly out of nowhere and quickly.
Which is irrelevant, since you haven't seen those plays from Grandlund in the NHL. The NHL is a league that forces you to simplify aspects of your game, because players are just too good to fall for the frilly crap on a consistent basis.

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11-05-2012, 06:06 PM
  #96
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Which is irrelevant, since you haven't seen those plays from Grandlund in the NHL. The NHL is a league that forces you to simplify aspects of your game, because players are just too good to fall for the frilly crap on a consistent basis.
Either Granlund adjusts to the NHL or the NHL must adjust to Granlund with all the "frilly crap"... We'll see.

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11-05-2012, 06:09 PM
  #97
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Which is irrelevant, since you haven't seen those plays from Grandlund in the NHL. The NHL is a league that forces you to simplify aspects of your game, because players are just too good to fall for the frilly crap on a consistent basis.
Because most of players doesen't have balls to do something new or simply has "it" in their vision and some of those plays are just simple little moves. They would work in the NHL aswell. I'll put tomorrow few samples when i'm on computer. Don't let his age or anything fool you. Most of those players are superstars in the NHL i know it but in pure vision he is among the best players in the world. I say it again that it doesen't guarantee his superstar or even star status but he has "it" in his vision. Granlund will bring something fresh and new into NHL and it will only be good for the game.

It's easy to pick up some superstars against an prospect but we measure 1 skill and it is vision. Granlund is one of the most creative players in the world no doubt about it.


Last edited by thomast: 11-05-2012 at 06:18 PM.
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11-05-2012, 07:13 PM
  #98
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I would say that Granlund has better vision than some of the players you listed. I've seen many plays from Granlund which haven't been made in the NHL ever. I don't mean lacrosse goal. Let him get used to small NA rinks and watch him play. Of course he might not be even close as succesfull player as many players you mentioned but in pure vision and hockeyIQ he is up there easily. He is small, isn't overly fast. He is just very smart and he can make plays instantly out of nowhere and quickly.
granlunds numbes in the ahl are not as good as these guys in the nhl lol

get outta here with over rating this kid.
hes good but has done nothing to prove hes better than baertschi let alone m koivu and joe thornton and crosby haha

jeez

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11-05-2012, 07:25 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by Haatley View Post
granlunds numbes in the ahl are not as good as these guys in the nhl lol

get outta here with over rating this kid.
hes good but has done nothing to prove hes better than baertschi let alone m koivu and joe thornton and crosby haha

jeez
Baertchi 9g 4g 7a 11p 12PM +5 1.22ppg 19sog tied at first within the team

Granlund 8g 4g 8a 12p 2PM +5 1.50ppg 23sog best scorer within the team

So I guess he can produce more atleast. Granlund also plays regularly penalty kill. I don't know if Baertchi does that.

Edit: Oh Granlund also won the rookie of the month award so there's that too...

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11-05-2012, 07:27 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by Haatley View Post
granlunds numbes in the ahl are not as good as these guys in the nhl lol

get outta here with over rating this kid.
hes good but has done nothing to prove hes better than baertschi let alone m koivu and joe thornton and crosby haha

jeez
Maybe you should read his post again. He was talking about vision only

And he didn't even say that he thinks Granlund has better vision than Thornton or Crosby. Granlund does have better vision than Koivu already and I'm sure everyone who's seen him play enough agrees with this. When they've played on the same team Granlund has been the better playmaker. Koivu is still far ahead on other aspects of the game and better player but Granlund's vision is already better. Which it should be because that is pretty much the only reason why he belongs to the top tier of prospects.

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