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Old
11-05-2012, 11:39 AM
  #101
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This deal makes no sense for Montreal. First, they trade their highest scorer from last year, on top of that deal their elite young starter, and a 2nd round pick (who was a top 10 euro skater from the 2012 draft). There is no sense in getting rid of Price for Luongo. His contract is way too long for starters, and we can't just hope Eddie Lack magically becomes better than Carey is. There is a reason he was taken 5th.

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Old
11-05-2012, 11:43 AM
  #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYVanfan View Post
more spin

Thomas lost his job too ...remember how that turned out?

10 years with retirement outs = a valuable contract, esp given the likes of Roloson, Brodeur, Hasek, Thomas and others on a fairly healthy list of keepers who were effective into their late 30s at least. And before you argue that Luo is not the same, compare career #s...

And yes, Cole did have a career year. So does that mean that at 34 that's the new normal for an otherwise oft-injured forward?
Im using facts.

Cole had a career year. Luongo lost his job = Facts.

Spin in when someone uses irrelevant arguments to prove your case. For example, you said because Roloson, Brodeur, Hasek, Thomas can play at a high level into their 40s that luongo will too.

Oh and 1 more fact for you. Cole has not missed a game in the past 2 years,


Last edited by IceDaddy: 11-05-2012 at 11:51 AM.
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11-05-2012, 11:56 AM
  #103
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I don't see any attraction for the Habs either. I don't see why we'd take Luongo-Lack when we have Price. While it's true that Luongo has had some great years in the past, the reality is that Price is trending better right now. And Luongo's contract doesn't look good for any team. There is simply no way the Habs would make that switch. And the rest of it - Cole, Collberg, Thrower, pick - for Kane doesn't appeal to me either. Maybe there's good value there, but Kane isn't a player I'd want for the Habs. Anyway, even if anybody did like Kane and was ok with that side of it from the Habs' POV, there's no way it would balance out the losses on the goalie side. Terrible deal for the Habs IMHO. Complete non-starter.

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Old
11-05-2012, 01:02 PM
  #104
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I would do it, Price and Raymond for Kane and Emery!?

Sold.

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11-05-2012, 01:19 PM
  #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post


So the difference between Price and Luongo(if there even is one, apart from age) is twice as big as the one between Kane and Cole(who have an even bigger age gap)?
You shoul consider looking at Luongo's contract situation... that might help you understand

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11-05-2012, 01:20 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by HabsRock View Post

Cole had a career year. Luongo lost his job = Facts.
I love living in a vacuum! I mean its not like Luongo not starting was based on the team play & not his. Its not like putting in Schneider in over Luongo was the last move our coach could make to try & wake up his team... Oh wait.


How/why are cap circumventing contracts bad? Unless you're foolish enough to believe a player is going to play into their 40's & not retire when their salary goes down

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11-05-2012, 01:24 PM
  #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thundermare View Post
You shoul consider looking at Luongo's contract situation... that might help you understand
You mean how he's 2 mil cheaper than Price? And when he retires his cap hit will end up going back to Vancouver? That contract?

And that still doesn't negate the fact that the fact the person I quoted thinks Price >> Luongo, but Kane is only just > Cole.

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11-05-2012, 01:25 PM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HabsRock View Post
so the habs give up

Price
Cole
Thrower
Colberg
2nd

and they get

Roberto Luongo
Patrick Kane
Eddie Lack


No. Just no. Not even close.
Price for Kane makes sense… but I’d rather keep the number one tender

Cole for Luongo Talentwise that might make sense but contractwise I wouldn’t touch Luongo ‘s contract… way too long and Cole is a better fit in Mtl

Thrower-Colberg-2nd for Eddie Lack… Really need an reason why it doesn’t make sense?

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11-05-2012, 01:29 PM
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thundermare View Post
Price for Kane makes sense… but I’d rather keep the number one tender

Cole for Luongo Talentwise that might make sense but contractwise I wouldn’t touch Luongo ‘s contract… way too long and Cole is a better fit in Mtl

Thrower-Colberg-2nd for Eddie Lack… Really need an reason why it doesn’t make sense?
Obviously there's nothing to gain discussing this further if you think Cole could even hold Luongo's jock-strap in terms of talent.

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11-05-2012, 01:31 PM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
You mean how he's 2 mil cheaper than Price? And when he retires his cap hit will end up going back to Vancouver? That contract?

And that still doesn't negate the fact that the fact the person I quoted thinks Price >> Luongo, but Kane is only just > Cole.
His contact is valid untill 2022... Now he will make the big Dow untill 2018... and even in 2019(At 40) he will still make 3.3M... and have a Cap hit of 5.3333... so he's tooo much of a risk for any GM that dosn't have to make the move to take such a risk... that might work in a fantasy league... but never in real life

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11-05-2012, 01:32 PM
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Obviously there's nothing to gain discussing this further if you think Cole could even hold Luongo's jock-strap in terms of talent.
Agreed. I'm a Hawks fan and even I'm able to see how dim that is.

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11-05-2012, 01:35 PM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Obviously there's nothing to gain discussing this further if you think Cole could even hold Luongo's jock-strap in terms of talent.
well okay lets admit he's been one of the best tender in the league... but there's a reason Vancouver wants him out... and there a reason there's not much of a market...

Lets just say that this is a bad Idea for Mtl... we need the size & grit Cole provide... and while Kane is awesome, it wouldn't be a good fit... not at the expense of Price anyway.

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11-05-2012, 01:36 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Chris Hansen View Post
Agreed. I'm a Hawks fan and even I'm able to see how dim that is.
Well why don't you take Luongo and leave Mtl out of this deal?

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Old
11-05-2012, 01:37 PM
  #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Imagine17 View Post
I love living in a vacuum! I mean its not like Luongo not starting was based on the team play & not his. Its not like putting in Schneider in over Luongo was the last move our coach could make to try & wake up his team... Oh wait.


How/why are cap circumventing contracts bad? Unless you're foolish enough to believe a player is going to play into their 40's & not retire when their salary goes down
This thread needs more of this logic.

OK, maybe this doesn't sound like the best thing that could possibly happen to Montreal, but they're giving up a forward who's contract nobody was in love with when he signed it who's year to year consistency isn't anything to write home about and they're getting an ESTABLISHED first line forward in return.

When was the last time Montreal had a first line forward? It's been way too long.

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Old
11-05-2012, 01:57 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Thundermare View Post
Well why don't you take Luongo and leave Mtl out of this deal?
So...keep Patrick Kane and get Luongo for the price of just Ray Emery? Where do I sign?

You sure did a whole lot of backpedaling from Cole and Luongo "talent-wise" making sense to just sticking with Cole for Luongo not being a good fit for MTL.

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11-05-2012, 01:59 PM
  #116
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Quote:
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Well why don't you take Luongo and leave Mtl out of this deal?
I would rather see Montreal trade for Kane and leave Vancouver out of this deal.

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11-05-2012, 02:17 PM
  #117
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There are no attitude issues with Kane, he is a great teammate

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11-05-2012, 03:07 PM
  #118
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I would rather see Montreal trade for Kane and leave Vancouver out of this deal.
Kane and Emery for Price and Desharnais! Get it done!

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11-05-2012, 03:10 PM
  #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thadd View Post
This thread needs more of this logic.

OK, maybe this doesn't sound like the best thing that could possibly happen to Montreal, but they're giving up a forward who's contract nobody was in love with when he signed it who's year to year consistency isn't anything to write home about and they're getting an ESTABLISHED first line forward in return.

When was the last time Montreal had a first line forward? It's been way too long.
Last i checked Cole and Maxpac are firstline forwards. If what you meant was superstar / star forwards then i would argue that its not worth the downgrade of Price to Luongo - especially considering that Luongo is on the downslope of his career. Habs are building a core group that cover the essentials. (Price, Subban, Gorges, MaxPac, Galchenyuk)

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11-05-2012, 03:12 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by DontToewzMeBro View Post
There are no attitude issues with Kane, he is a great teammate
Its not attitude issues that are a concern, its his penchant for partying. Montreal has many players that had to learn the hard way that they have to control themselves better (Price) and guys that left because of it (Higgins).

Quote:
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Kane and Emery for Price and Desharnais! Get it done!
Not a chance, Montreal cant have Emery and Budaj as their goalies. Also, while Kane is clearly the superior player, Desharnias wasn't that far off of his point totals last season with a better plus-minus. No ay Montreal does that.

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11-05-2012, 03:15 PM
  #121
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Kane and Emery for Price and Desharnais! Get it done!
No thanks. lol

Imagine the Habs with Emery and Budaj as their tandem!

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11-05-2012, 03:16 PM
  #122
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I'm a little put out, as I had really put some thought into this and tried addressing team needs.

Sort of OT, but would Montreal fans be willing to trade Thrower for Lack straight up? They have a lot of depth there(Subban, Gorges, Markov, Beaulieu, Tinordi) and I don't think the Canucks should roll with both an unproven starter and a rookie backup for a season. That way we could make room if a goalie had to be sent our way for a trade(like Theodore from Florida, who would make a lot of sense as a veteran backup), while Montreal solidifies their goaltending depth.

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11-05-2012, 03:20 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
I'm a little put out, as I had really put some thought into this and tried addressing team needs.

Sort of OT, but would Montreal fans be willing to trade Thrower for Lack straight up? They have a lot of depth there(Subban, Gorges, Markov, Beaulieu, Tinordi) and I don't think the Canucks should roll with both an unproven starter and a rookie backup for a season. That way we could make room if a goalie had to be sent our way for a trade(like Theodore from Florida, who would make a lot of sense as a veteran backup), while Montreal solidifies their goaltending depth.
Why are you put out? The Habs are developing a young core (Price/Subban/MaxPac/Galchenyuk) that they are building around. Downgrading Price to Luongo defies this plan (even though it includes Kane). Price is a key element to the Habs future and is essentially untouchable.

As for your updated proposal in question i don't see the point in trading for Lack. Price is young and is our starter for the next decade. The Habs can address their depth in goal with one of their 3 x 2nd round picks in 2013. Or they can go the route of free agency. They simply have no need for a young netminder with potential unless something catosrophic happens to Price.

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11-05-2012, 03:23 PM
  #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Sort of OT, but would Montreal fans be willing to trade Thrower for Lack straight up? They have a lot of depth there(Subban, Gorges, Markov, Beaulieu, Tinordi) and I don't think the Canucks should roll with both an unproven starter and a rookie backup for a season. That way we could make room if a goalie had to be sent our way for a trade(like Theodore from Florida, who would make a lot of sense as a veteran backup), while Montreal solidifies their goaltending depth.
I like Lack, but I just don't see the point in changing the Habs' goaltending situation. Price is an ideal starter, Budaj is an entirely adequate backup. The team does need some depth percolating behind them, but at this point it's longer term depth, junior aged prospects, that sort of player. Lack is pretty much NHL-ready, but it's not an NHL-ready goalie prospect which the Habs need in the system at this point. So I wouldn't trade Thrower (or any equivalent-valued asset) for Lack.

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11-05-2012, 03:25 PM
  #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thadd View Post
This thread needs more of this logic.

OK, maybe this doesn't sound like the best thing that could possibly happen to Montreal, but they're giving up a forward who's contract nobody was in love with when he signed it who's year to year consistency isn't anything to write home about and they're getting an ESTABLISHED first line forward in return.

When was the last time Montreal had a first line forward? It's been way too long.
What? Nobody had a problem with Cole's contract. Looking at similar UFA deals you can see that its market price. That was before he had a career year in Montreal. We should trade him for a guy that had 5 more points last season while bringing fewer intangibles? I wont argue that Kane is better, but if Montreal is going to trade Cole, its going to be a sell high scenario. Montreal has been crying for Power forwards for over a decade and now we have 2. That ignores the concern that Kane's personality wont mesh that well into Montreal's tendency to put players on a golden throne and turn on them at the slightest tumble.

At any rate, Montreal's issue is the loss of Price for Luongo in a city that eats goalies. That, and the loss of what should be a high second and two quality prospects.

The proposal is in the range of fair (although I am of the opinion that Montreal loses and Vancouver wins), but there is little incentive for a team in Montreal's position to make a trade like this. Maybe if Kane was the kind of guy you could build around, but I don't think he is.

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