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10-03-2012, 05:56 PM
  #751
Hockey Duckie
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That's the thing. MVP doesn't reward whoever's the best hitter in the league alone. That's what the Silver Slugger award's about and that's where the Triple Crown talk can be talked about. (Also, some Triple Crown winners did not win the MVP.) MVP should take in all aspects of a player's game. I read somewhere someone making fun of Trout that he should win the MCP (Most Complete Player) award and not the MVP. LoL

There's nothing wrong with RBI's aside from the fact a whole lot of people don't understand what leadoff hitter means or what it entails vs #3 or clean up hitter. Also, people don't know that Cabrera had put up better numbers in previous years. So some of Cabrera's stats are worse this year, but since no one's hitting better than him he gets to be a Triple Crown winner? And if Hamilton hits two HR's tonight, would that Triple Crown topple and thus the MVP votes topple?

Here's an even bigger argument.
There have been nine other Triple Crown Winners.
For what Trout has done this season has NEVER been done before! Which is to have 125 runs with 40 stolen bases and 30 homeruns. (It could be 50 stolen bases!) Damn. He was thrown out at 2nd base just now at the top of the first inning. It was a forced steal and he had a bad jump.

Trout can't win the Silver Slugger award b/c the best offensive hitter would be Cabrera. But does Cabrera have the tools to beat Trout in an MVP award? Will Trout be penalized because his team plays in a tougher division where finishing third place in the AL West would win the Central Division title? Odd. But if Trout does get steal #50, he raises that NEVER been done before claim much, much higher!

Been done nine times before vs Never been done before. That's simple for offensive reasons that doesn't include having better, if not the best defense by probably winning the Golden Glove award.

I dunno... seems oddly sad that many people are placing style over substance. Possible triple crown winner vs most complete player in the league, who made the Angels have the best record in baseball since he joined the team this season after a 6-14 start.

BTW, Oakland won the division on the last day of the season.

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10-03-2012, 06:26 PM
  #752
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Um, isn't there more than one silver slugger award?

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10-03-2012, 07:13 PM
  #753
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Originally Posted by Funky Bunky View Post
Um, isn't there more than one silver slugger award?
I believe it is done by position. Not sure whether OF is LF,CF,RF specifically, but he should get one regardless.

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10-31-2012, 10:02 PM
  #754
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Santana traded to the Royals, even if Sisk isn't anything special just free's up more money for Grienke. Hopefully we can trade Haren now.

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10-31-2012, 11:49 PM
  #755
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Santana traded to the Royals, even if Sisk isn't anything special just free's up more money for Grienke. Hopefully we can trade Haren now.
I want to keep Haren. After Weaver, Wilson, and maybe Greinke, we have Richards and Maronde, who are not ready, Williams, who really should be a #6/long reliever, and nothing else. There's also few SP's on the market after Greinke who are any good, and they will probably cost more than Haren. I also have full confidence that Haren will be back on track next year after an offseason to rest up the back, and a good spring. If we don't keep Haren, and Greinke goes elsewhere, we have:

Weaver
Wilson
Williams
Richards
?

That's just unexceptable for an aging team with few good prospects. We'd have to give up Bourjos, Morales, and/or Trumbo to get some pitching. Wilson also wasn't very good last year, so there's a small chance that our only good Starter will be Weaver.... that's not what you want with Pujols aging, and one of the worst prospect pools in the league atm.

Just watch Haren be traded for crap and pull a Fernando Rodney 2.0, while we end up being an extremely top heavy rotation.


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Old
11-01-2012, 12:49 AM
  #756
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Originally Posted by Hampeus View Post
I want to keep Haren. After Weaver, Wilson, and maybe Greinke, we have Richards and Maronde, who are not ready, Williams, who really should be a #6/long reliever, and nothing else. There's also few SP's on the market after Greinke who are any good, and they will probably cost more than Haren. I also have full confidence that Haren will be back on track next year after an offseason to rest up the back, and a good spring. If we don't keep Haren, and Greinke goes elsewhere, we have:

Weaver
Wilson
Williams
Richards
?

That's just unexceptable for an aging team with few good prospects. We'd have to give up Bourjos, Morales, and/or Trumbo to get some pitching. Wilson also wasn't very good last year, so there's a small chance that our only good Starter will be Weaver.... that's not what you want with Pujols aging, and one of the worst prospect pools in the league atm.

Just watch Haren be traded for crap and pull a Fernando Rodney 2.0, while we end up being an extremely top heavy rotation.
Haren is set to make $15 if the Angels pick up his option. I'm sure there are other viable options that much less expensive than Haren. There are rumors that Haren would be willing to return to the Angels at a much reasonable rate. I'm not sure how that would work, but probably create a two or three year extension for about $8 mil a year or so.

If the Angels didn't have an inside track to retain Greinke, then Santana would not have been dealt. As you've stated, there are not a lot of great starting pitchers out there.

As for Wilson, he was not great, but to say he wasn't very good would be saying that Mike Trout was undeserving of the Golden Glove award at Center Field. Wilson went 13- 10, starting 34 games with a 3.83 ERA. Haren was 12-13 on 30 games started with a 4.33 ERA. Greinke had a 3.53 ERA with the Angels, going 6 - 2 upon 13 games started.

Wilson also had surgery on his arm. Which means he could be even better.

Starting pitching has not truly hurt the Angels. Since pitching coach Mike Butcher's arrival, the starting pitcher's ERA has been improving year after year. You know what kills the Angels? The bullpen.

teamyearblown saves
LAA2012
22
LAA2011
25
LAA2010
17
LAA2009
19
LAA2008
23
LAA2007
14
LAA2006
13
LAA2005
17
Ana2004
17

In 2011, Jordan Walden was the de facto closer who blew about 10 saves by himself. We needed bullpen help. Dipoto added Hawkins, picked up old man Isringhausen, and then traded for Frieri. Frieri seems to be the only bullpen arm to really help the bullpen, but not enough as the team still blew 22 saves. It could have been worse had it not been for our offense hitting a lot of runs and the bullpen almost giving up the blown save.

So this trade with the Royals is about acquiring bullpen help on the cheap. We picked up a lefty. I like lefties. That's why Maronde was pushed up fast because he's a lefty. We had Takahashi as well, but he didn't pan out either (although, he wasn't a Dipoto signee). We need help in the back end. We were out of the playoffs by 3 games!

I'm confident that the Angels can sign Greinke. As for Haren. I'm "meh" about it. He's a pretty expensive pitcher for what he put up. I'm sure we can get southpaw Joe Saunders for cheap, that's if he wants to come back to the Angels. That would push Jerome Williams back into the middle relief, to which I think he does well or spot start if a starting pitcher is injured. I would like this line up:

RHP Weaver
LHP Wilson
RHP Greinke
LHP Saunders
RHP Richards

It's the bullpen that I want to see some improvements upon.

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11-01-2012, 08:12 AM
  #757
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Blown saves and bad relief kill teams. They aren't just losses, hut they can be deflating losses.

Not to mention, there's no point trying to make the playoffs if you don't have a solid relief group in tight series games.

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11-01-2012, 01:36 PM
  #758
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How the hell does Trout not win the Gold Glove. I've been asking that question for the past two days.

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11-01-2012, 02:11 PM
  #759
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How the hell does Trout not win the Gold Glove. I've been asking that question for the past two days.
East coast bias, Trout plays on the West coast, Trout's a rookie, and Trout isn't Bryce Harper.

Adam Jones, the Gold Glove winner, had 8 errors committed to his name. Trout had 2 errors.

Jones-0.982 fielding pct- 8 errors
Trout-0.993 fielding pct- 2 errors

Also, Trout has robbed 4 homeruns, which isn't a stat that I can easily find at yahoo or espn.

Anyhow, it does make one question of the qualifications for actually winning a defensive award called the Gold Glove. But if this is how players are voting for the Gold Glove, then we can safely and unjustifiably assume that Trout will not win the AL MVP. East coast bias and ignorance will point to the Triple Crown, which hasn't been accomplished in about forty or fifty years, but had been accomplished 16 times during the baseball era of stats. Mike Trout put up numbers (BA, Runs, Steals) that have NEVER been accomplished before as well as play great defense and helps manufacture runs.

The only reason I can see why Trout did not win the Gold Glove award would be to say that because then you would not have a conspiracy theory. Trout wins the ROY and Gold Glove, but doesn't win the MVP even though he finished 2nd in BA. In short, the fix is on. I hope Trout gets motivated to surpass his numbers this year to truly make the baseball world look foolish and petty.

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11-01-2012, 02:22 PM
  #760
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Originally Posted by Theridion View Post
Blown saves and bad relief kill teams. They aren't just losses, hut they can be deflating losses.

Not to mention, there's no point trying to make the playoffs if you don't have a solid relief group in tight series games.
Exactly. See the Giants and how they were able to overcome so many elimination games and then totally squash the Tigers and their so called MVP potential candidate.

TeamGame 1Game 2Game 3Game 4**Total Runs Scored
SF
8
2
2
4
16
Det
3
0
0
3
6
** Game 4 went to 10 innings. That's like overtime for us hockey junkies for those who don't know baseball too well. There are an allotted 9 innings per game unless after nine innings there remains a tie.

If we went to the playoffs like were were, then I doubt we would win any of those world series games save game 1 were the lead was large.

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11-02-2012, 07:15 PM
  #761
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Looks like Haren is going to the Cubs for Marmol

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11-02-2012, 07:24 PM
  #762
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Looks like Haren is going to the Cubs for Marmol
Terrible deal. Marmol is expensive crap, who can't even throw strikes. His Whip was like 1.5. The Angels are also giving the Cubs 3 million, so basically we're paying 12 million for Marmol. Dipoto is slowly looking like a bad GM. I want to give him time, and I will, but he's not doing much good so far.

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11-02-2012, 08:26 PM
  #763
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Terrible trade. Marmol is awful. ****. The Angels can't find a GM that knows what he's doing. I'm pissed off.

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11-02-2012, 09:25 PM
  #764
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Deal off.

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11-03-2012, 12:18 AM
  #765
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Guess the deal fell apart, kinda glad, Didn't want Marmol. Haren goes to free agency now.

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11-03-2012, 02:11 PM
  #766
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Originally Posted by Richie to Brownie View Post
Guess the deal fell apart, kinda glad, Didn't want Marmol. Haren goes to free agency now.
Which means more money available to retain Greinke.

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11-03-2012, 08:07 PM
  #767
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Thank God that deal didn't go through. Marmol is horrid

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11-04-2012, 07:22 PM
  #768
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Still surprised Dipoto didn't atleast tender Torii his qualifier, really hope we can keep him, but you never seem to know with this front office.

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11-05-2012, 01:28 AM
  #769
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Still surprised Dipoto didn't atleast tender Torii his qualifier, really hope we can keep him, but you never seem to know with this front office.
How much was the qualifier? If it was much more than what the front office is willing to offer, then I expect them not to pay that qualifier.

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11-05-2012, 10:20 AM
  #770
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How much was the qualifier? If it was much more than what the front office is willing to offer, then I expect them not to pay that qualifier.
Don't know for sure but it was likely the 18 mill or so he was paid this last season.

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11-05-2012, 10:58 AM
  #771
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How much was the qualifier? If it was much more than what the front office is willing to offer, then I expect them not to pay that qualifier.
It was 1 year 13.5 million. Personally, I'm thrilled that Dipoto didn't offer him that. That's too much for someone as old as Hunter.

Bourjos for $500,000 >>>> Torii for 13.5 million imo

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11-05-2012, 02:47 PM
  #772
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It was 1 year 13.5 million. Personally, I'm thrilled that Dipoto didn't offer him that. That's too much for someone as old as Hunter.

Bourjos for $500,000 >>>> Torii for 13.5 million imo
Yeah. That's way too much for Torii, and I love Torii. $13.5 mil for a #2 hitter? I really think Fleet Pete can excel as a #2 hitter. Actually, I'd experiment. Pete as lead off and Trout #2. I've come to terms that Torii may not return. Although, I'd rather keep Torii than Wells. But damn... I have to buy a different jersey. Hello new red Trout jersey!

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11-05-2012, 04:24 PM
  #773
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Yeah. That's way too much for Torii, and I love Torii. $13.5 mil for a #2 hitter? I really think Fleet Pete can excel as a #2 hitter. Actually, I'd experiment. Pete as lead off and Trout #2. I've come to terms that Torii may not return. Although, I'd rather keep Torii than Wells. But damn... I have to buy a different jersey. Hello new red Trout jersey!
If we didn't have Wells clogging everything up, we probably could've brought Torii back easily as the 4th outfielder. But with 25 million dollars tied up in Wells...there is just no spot for Torii.

I just hope we've saved enough money to sign Greinke, Marcum, and a bullpen arm

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11-05-2012, 08:35 PM
  #774
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If we do resign Zach, what does our rotation look like? Weaver-Grienke-Wilson-?-?

Would there be any way we could sign Dempster or Lohse while bringing back Zach?

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11-05-2012, 08:40 PM
  #775
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I'd sign Brandon Mccarthy.

Weaver
Greinke
Wilson
Mccarthy
Richards/Williams


Mccarthy has had some injury problems, but when he has stayed healthy, he's been great

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