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KHL (Kontinental Hockey League) 2012-2013 season part II

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Old
11-05-2012, 05:39 AM
  #51
SoundAndFury
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I think World Cups should be only every 4 years like in Football. Would give them a lot more value. And as it was said they should be in February like the OG.
Nobody gives an f about the Olympic games in football. It's either Olympic games or World Cup as the most important tournament and in hockey it's the Olympic Games, so what's the problem?

And to put it mildly it would be naive (it's simply stupid, really) to expect that NHL would allow it's players to take part in mid-season international competition not once in 4 but once in 2 years.

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11-05-2012, 05:40 AM
  #52
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I don't think national teams should have priority over the KHL. It's very disruptive. The focus on national teams is so Cold War-like, previous-century thinking. It's very disturbing that for 10 out of 26 KHL teams, the season will be over in mid-February. That's absurd, waaay too early. How are all these players supposed to remain in shape, without any game practice, until May (!) for the World Championships? The KHL regular season should be a lot longer, the WCs should be moved to early April or so, and the KHL play-offs should only start after the WCs are completed. Then there would be enough time for KHL play-offs, instead of rushing through them like in this season, in inferior "Best of 5" 1st round series.
Why in the world should any league have priority over national teams? The focus on national teams has nothing to with the cold war or the previous century. It's themost normal thing in sports. The national team is the best a country can offer. Thus international tournaments have the highest level of competition no league can offer.

NT players who'd go to the respective NT will play a fair amount of friendlies before the WC. Staying in shape is not the problem.

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11-05-2012, 05:44 AM
  #53
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Why in the world should any league have priority over national teams?
Maybe because it's the league who pays for players and not the national team?

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11-05-2012, 06:06 AM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vicente View Post
I think World Cups should be only every 4 years like in Football. Would give them a lot more value. And as it was said they should be in February like the OG. The national teams would still have other stuff like Euro Hockey Tour or Euro Ice Hockey Challange in the rest of the time.
I so agree, every year World Championships are hard to get excited for, may be every two years..

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11-05-2012, 07:14 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Atas2000 View Post
Why in the world should any league have priority over national teams? The focus on national teams has nothing to with the cold war or the previous century. It's themost normal thing in sports. The national team is the best a country can offer. Thus international tournaments have the highest level of competition no league can offer.

NT players who'd go to the respective NT will play a fair amount of friendlies before the WC. Staying in shape is not the problem.
We should get one thing right. IMO clubs and national teams have the same amount of importance in football, ice hockey, basketball, handball etc. !! It's just a completely different thing so we shouldn't give one a priority about the other.

And in today's world you cannot say a NT is better than a club team as a club can chose any player worldwide while a NT is formed of the best players of one country. This way the Boston Bruins are far better than Norway or Denmark and the Russian NT is better than Vityaz Chekhov for example.

You can have strong club and national team tournaments off course. One does not make the other one worse.

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11-05-2012, 07:24 AM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vicente View Post
We should get one thing right. IMO clubs and national teams have the same amount of importance in football, ice hockey, basketball, handball etc. !! It's just a completely different thing so we shouldn't give one a priority about the other.

And in today's world you cannot say a NT is better than a club team as a club can chose any player worldwide while a NT is formed of the best players of one country. This way the Boston Bruins are far better than Norway or Denmark and the Russian NT is better than Vityaz Chekhov for example.

You can have strong club and national team tournaments off course. One does not make the other one worse.
Same in soccer. Mancherster United or Bayern are better than Urugvay, South Africa or Austria.

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11-05-2012, 09:23 AM
  #57
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KHL suggested [World Championships] to take place in mid-february (no WC in OG year) and rest of regular season + play off after WC. The same model as NHL season during OG (Turin, Vancouver examples). KHL wants cca 70 games of RS, play-off to finish in mid-may or later. That is idea
That would be perfect!

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NT players who'd go to the respective NT will play a fair amount of friendlies before the WC. Staying in shape is not the problem.
I strongly disagree. You cannot remain in proper game shape by playing a bunch of non-competitive friendlies. There are, I think, no more than 8 or 10 of them, anyway. 10 friendly games in almost 3 months! That's ridiculous. In fact, I distinctly remember some Slovak national team players from the KHL in recent years complaining about the huge time gap between the end of KHL regular season and the World Championships. This season, that time gap will be larger than ever, and if Slovan fails to make the KHL play-offs, it will for the first time affect a huge portion of Slovakia's national team. (There are 8 Slovan players on Slovakia's roster for this week's international tourney in Germany.) Even if Slovan makes the KHL play-offs, the 1st round series are only "Best of 5" (which is very bad, imo), so 8 more KHL teams will probably have finished their seasons by the end of February. That's 18 out of 26 KHL teams. And then, they have practically 2 months of nothing to do until the World Championships begin in May.

To sum up, the World Championships should stop interfering with the KHL. The WCs should adapt to the KHL and other national leagues, instead of the other way around. Playing the top international event of a winter sport in February would make perfect sense.

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11-05-2012, 09:56 AM
  #58
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Just to correct you. All series play "Best of 7", even 1st round. Yes, first idea was to play only "Best of 5" in 1st round, but KHL finally adopted classic "Best of 7" in 1st round. Maybe your sources did not remark this change. Generally it does not matter, I share your point of view. There must be balance among leagues and NT. Problem is that KHL is new league and expands, has more and more teams (complicated schedulling) .. and status qou in relationship leagues-NT (WC) is violated. Before KHL it was almost ideal, NHLers were only a few days after regular season when WC starts, 1st round ended. Yes, best players not available due to playoffs in NHL. Europeans league finished a few days before WC, so no problem. But KHL is special, it has 26 clubs, needs to play 54 games+play-off since september to mid-april. Plus EHT breaks during season .. no room for more games, KHL can not play more regular season games (lets say end RS in mid-end March or early April) because play-off will not finish before WC and we dont want PO to be played as Best of 5 or so. Only solution for KHL is to abandon EHT and most important thing is to reschedulle WC. Playing KHL playoff (finals of conference and GC finals) after WC in june is nonsense. I am curious what will happen in next years

This season dates of play off

1/4 Final of conference
WEST: 20, 21, 24, 25, 28 February, 2 and 4 March 2013
EAST: 21, 22, 25, 26 February, 1, 3 and 5 March 2013


1/2 Final of conference
WEST: 7, 8, 11, 12, 15, 17 and 19 March 2013
EAST: 8, 9, 12, 13, 16, 18 and 20 March 2013


Conference Finals
WEST: 22, 23, 26, 27, 30 March , 1 and 3 April 2013
EAST: 23, 24, 27, 28, 31 March , 2 and 4 April 2013

Gagarin Cup Finals
7, 8, 11, 12, 15, 17 and 19 April 2013

http://www.khl.ru/documents/KHL_cale...13_playoff.pdf


Last edited by vorky: 11-05-2012 at 10:07 AM.
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11-05-2012, 10:12 AM
  #59
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Nice of them to have changed this!

Even so, it shows that for 18 out of 26 KHL teams, the season will be over by March 5th -- way too soon. It's also bad for the teams' fans (and ticket sales): half a year to wait before another regular season begins.

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11-05-2012, 10:34 AM
  #60
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yes, khl knows about these negatives. I am sure. It is impossible to change someting if other subjects (FHR, IIHF, other leagues) dont want it.

Tickets - imagine that club would play 35-40 home games in regular season instead of current 26-7. Slovan - 40 games X average ticket 10-15 euro x 10 000 fans. Yes, clubs would have extra costs, but income is bigger IMO.

TV rights - KHL would ask more money (=more money for clubs if revenue sharing is accepted), more games-more money

Shalaev, vicepresident of KHL in today´s press

Quote:
This situation (status quo as we wrote above) should change after Sochi. I think KHL should be more forceable/assertive to protect its interests after Sochi. It is not good for russian hockey, if professionals of this level who are well paid play only 50-2 games in RS. Hockey players say us that they want to play more. He mentioned 80-85 games of RS (paraphrase)
http://allhockey.ru/news/134278/


Last edited by vorky: 11-05-2012 at 10:56 AM.
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11-05-2012, 10:54 AM
  #61
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Golden words by Shalaev! Surveys were also made among NHL fans during the previous lockout, asking them if they would prefer a shorter regular season... and the overwhelming answer was: "No, keep it as it is, 82 games per regular season is just fine." It would be nice to have a similar number of regular-season games in the KHL, especially because the KHL still intends to expand, perhaps even beyond the NHL's scope of 30 teams.

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11-05-2012, 11:11 AM
  #62
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82 games means the end of eurotour, no players released to WJC and etc, this is the end of European hockey's identity, extremely against it. 82 games means no time to practice, some talented kids will be eaten alive by the intensity and frequency of games, we do NOT need another NHL.

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11-05-2012, 11:37 AM
  #63
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82 games means the end of eurotour
The EuroTour is highly discriminatory as it is, being restricted to 4 countries. Slovakia has now won 4 medals in 12 years at the World Championships, along with 4th place at the Vancouver Olympics (2nd best European team), but it's never invited to the EuroTour, being forced to play second-rate tournaments instead. I'd be happy to see EuroTour cancelled if it's unwilling to accept more than 4 teams.

In the old days around Christmas time, there was the very nice tradition of the Izvestiya Cup in Moscow. So there were 2 international highlights every year: a minor highlight of the Izvestiya Cup at around Christmas, and the big highlight of the World Championships in the spring to close out the season. That was a really good arrangement. To explode the former Izvestiya Cup into several smaller, 4-country tourneys spread across the entire season only does what Shalaev says: it damages the regular league.

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no players released to WJC
Why? The KHL could easily make a rule that clubs must release players for WCJ. I'd be all in favour of such a rule.

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this is the end of European hockey's identity
I don't see how playing only 52 games per season and ending the season in mid-February contributes in any way to "European hockey identity". A national team is just 24 players, but the all-too-short season adversely affects hundreds of players. That's what can damage hockey in Europe.

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some talented kids will be eaten alive by the intensity and frequency of games
Why should they be? No one says all young players must play all 82 games. Right now, Slovan has 4 young players on its roster, but 2 of those guys play like 40 seconds per game, or not at all. I'm sure they'd welcome an 82-game season so that the playing time can be more evenly split among young talented players. And if they're not ready to play in the big league full-time, they can spend parts of seasons in a lower league (farm team), as is already happening today.

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11-05-2012, 12:01 PM
  #64
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If KHL really increase number of games, what happens with WC then ? Only solution is to move it after KHL or play it during the season !?

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11-05-2012, 12:07 PM
  #65
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Faterson, i can destroy any argument you have posted, because they don't carry much value, but I won't bother, as you seem to be pretty set on your opinion, so go on with it. Good advise: look at destruction to European hockey North American leagues have brought...

As for Eurotour, I would rotate more teams in Swiss/Ger/Slovaks/Blrs deserve it more or less.

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11-05-2012, 12:57 PM
  #66
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If KHL really increase number of games, what happens with WC then ? Only solution is to move it after KHL or play it during the season !?
A season of 82 games is pretty tiresome, that's simply too much. 52 games - that's certainly too few. ~65 seems like a good goal.

If 2 international breaks are cancelled (November & February), then it gives each KHL team 20 days for additional 7-9 games. The one in April is fine, cause it is a true preparation for WC and only players that aren't playing in the final stages of GC are participating. The December one is should stay as well, cause WJC and other junior events take place, plus an adult exhibition tournament might also occur - maybe a glorified version of Izvestiya tourney, Euro Championship with 8-12 teams. And as Shalayev mentioned a year ago, most Russian KHL clubs don't have a home during Christmas holidays, because of many festivals that are organized in multifunctional sport halls.

Another 5-6 games can be played in August, if the season starts 2 weeks earlier.

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11-05-2012, 02:38 PM
  #67
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The EuroTour is highly discriminatory as it is, being restricted to 4 countries. Slovakia has now won 4 medals in 12 years at the World Championships, along with 4th place at the Vancouver Olympics (2nd best European team), but it's never invited to the EuroTour, being forced to play second-rate tournaments instead. I'd be happy to see EuroTour cancelled if it's unwilling to accept more than 4 teams.
Who said smb. is unwilling? EHT is created by 4 national federations. There are certain agreement and contracts around it but no restrictions for somebody to join. Slovaks only need to ask to join in. But they don't.

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In the old days around Christmas time, there was the very nice tradition of the Izvestiya Cup in Moscow. So there were 2 international highlights every year: a minor highlight of the Izvestiya Cup at around Christmas, and the big highlight of the World Championships in the spring to close out the season. That was a really good arrangement. To explode the former Izvestiya Cup into several smaller, 4-country tourneys spread across the entire season only does what Shalaev says: it damages the regular league.
you do realize that the Izvestia Cup is a part of EHT? And it always was.

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Why? The KHL could easily make a rule that clubs must release players for WCJ. I'd be all in favour of such a rule.
So say Neftekhimik would have to release Yakupov, their top offensive player for like 2 weeks and play the regular season games without him? Sounds pretty fair

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11-05-2012, 02:49 PM
  #68
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I strongly disagree. You cannot remain in proper game shape by playing a bunch of non-competitive friendlies.
So you think playing NT games is non-competitive compared to a regular season game in the KHL?

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There are, I think, no more than 8 or 10 of them, anyway. 10 friendly games in almost 3 months! That's ridiculous. In fact, I distinctly remember some Slovak national team players from the KHL in recent years complaining about the huge time gap between the end of KHL regular season and the World Championships.
Resulting in going to the finals. So that gap really did hurt them

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This season, that time gap will be larger than ever, and if Slovan fails to make the KHL play-offs, it will for the first time affect a huge portion of Slovakia's national team. (There are 8 Slovan players on Slovakia's roster for this week's international tourney in Germany.) Even if Slovan makes the KHL play-offs, the 1st round series are only "Best of 5" (which is very bad, imo), so 8 more KHL teams will probably have finished their seasons by the end of February. That's 18 out of 26 KHL teams. And then, they have practically 2 months of nothing to do until the World Championships begin in May.
And that's the problem of anybody outside of the slovakian hockey authorities because... oh, wait! It isn't. Everyody is in the same boat. If slovakian players need games, organize some.


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To sum up, the World Championships should stop interfering with the KHL. The WCs should adapt to the KHL and other national leagues, instead of the other way around. Playing the top international event of a winter sport in February would make perfect sense.
That means no NHLers at all at WC. Now that is a great idea to improve the prestige of a tournament.

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11-05-2012, 02:54 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Vicente View Post
We should get one thing right. IMO clubs and national teams have the same amount of importance in football, ice hockey, basketball, handball etc. !! It's just a completely different thing so we shouldn't give one a priority about the other.

And in today's world you cannot say a NT is better than a club team as a club can chose any player worldwide while a NT is formed of the best players of one country. This way the Boston Bruins are far better than Norway or Denmark and the Russian NT is better than Vityaz Chekhov for example.

You can have strong club and national team tournaments off course. One does not make the other one worse.
The problem is I don't care about a team that has no identity and is just stocked with world's best players. I wouldn't want to watch a single game of this. (That's exactly what happens in football. It's a bad joke)


Last edited by Atas2000: 11-06-2012 at 10:48 AM.
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11-05-2012, 03:33 PM
  #70
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Who said smb. is unwilling? EHT is created by 4 national federations. There are certain agreement and contracts around it but no restrictions for somebody to join. Slovaks only need to ask to join in. But they don't.
That's a good joke, Atas. I admire your naivety. Of course the only reason Slovaks aren't playing in the EuroTour is because we're not allowed to. This has been common knowledge for 2 decades. If it had been possible, we would have played there every year, instead of just once in 20 years (something like 10 years ago was the last time).

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you do realize that the Izvestia Cup is a part of EHT? And it always was.
That pseudo-tourney of 4 countries nowadays is not the classic Izvestiya Cup of old. Back then, it was the 2nd international highlight of the season. Nowadays, its prestige is minimal, being one of many similar small tourneys in the course of a season. Besides, you must have noticed that it was not always called "Izvestiya" over the last couple of decades.

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So say Neftekhimik would have to release Yakupov, their top offensive player for like 2 weeks and play the regular season games without him? Sounds pretty fair
It's 100% fair because the rule would be applied to every team equally. It's Neftekhimik's fault if their best player is a 20-year-old as you allege. Besides, you're just fantasizing because Yakupov will hardly be spending any time in Europe at all if there is a regular NHL season next year.

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So you think playing NT games is non-competitive compared to a regular season game in the KHL?
Yep, absolutely and totally non-competitive compared to them. It doesn't really matter if Slovakia finishes first or last in this week's mini-tournament in Germany, whereas every KHL game matters a lot. Maybe your EuroTour games aren't so non-competitive, but that doesn't apply to the cr*ppy mini-tournaments that the Slovaks have been forced to participate in over the last 20 years. Besides, all these prep games are frequently used just to test out potential new national team players, rather than players who will actually play for Slovakia in top events. For this week's international tournament, there is no NHL player on Slovakia's roster -- no Chára, no Šatan, no Višňovský, no Sekera, even no Staňa. Záborský cancelled his participation earlier today. The tourney is mostly an opportunity for coach Vůjtek to test younger players.

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Resulting in going to the finals. So that gap really did hurt them
Atas, I wish you'd read more carefully before commenting. Last year, this issue was relevant for maybe 2 or 3 Slovak players. I was talking about this season, though, where the premature end of the KHL regular season might affect up to 9 (!) Slovan players, in addition to all the other Slovak players in various other KHL teams. There are 7 Slovaks on Lev's roster only, nearly all of them national team players, and Lev's play-off chances don't look good currently.

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That means no NHLers at all at WC. Now that is a great idea to improve the prestige of a tournament.
I don't care about that... Right now, the World Championships are pretty much a travesty, allowing only those NHL players to participate who have failed with their respective NHL teams. Whereas those who are having perhaps the best season of their lives, cannot play at the WC at all. What's prestigious about that?

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11-05-2012, 04:01 PM
  #71
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Why not send mostly MHL players to the World Juniors? It's the top development league in Europe, right? I don't think so many teams would be affected if they had to send kids away from a KHL roster for a couple of days. If a 19 year old guy would be the star of your team that would make me think...

Then about the number of games: I think like 70 games would be a good solution. I don't really care about Euro Hockey Tour as it is only interesting for the 4 participating countries but there would be still time for it. I mean at the moment you got several months left after the playoffs forst the majority of teams till the WC starts. So how could you not add regular season games?!

Then about the prestige of the WC. It's only interesting for Europeans. North Americans don't care at all about this tourney (because star NHLers aren't in it and its during NHL season). So what... they wouldn't send their best teams anyway.

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11-05-2012, 04:44 PM
  #72
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The fall of the Iron Curtain in 1989/90 hit the prestige of the World Championships hard, but 23 years later, IIHF still pretends as if nothing happened. Until 1989, "thanks" to the oppressive Communist regimes, you could at least guarantee that the Soviet Union and Czechoslovakia would be playing at full strength at the World Championships, because players from Communist countries were not allowed to join the NHL after being drafted.

I'm with Vicente and I would simply cancel the World Championships as a season-ending tournament. The tournament in its present form just doesn't make a lot of sense when it constantly interferes with the NHL play-offs, and now it's also starting to interfere with the KHL, forcing it to terminate the regular season at an absurdly early date, in the midst of winter, with heaps of snow everywhere around. It just makes no sense for many dozens of KHL players to end their season right there, in mid-February or early March.

I would prefer World Championships as a pre-season tournament, once every 4 years, in between the Olympic years, featuring all NHL and KHL stars. The several Canada Cups and World Cups held in North America in the past proved that this can be done. Isn't a biannual, truly top-level international tourney preferable over an annual inferior tourney, bombastically named "World Championships", although the rosters belie the name? It almost reminds one of the baseball "World Series" in which the "world" does not in fact participate.

Football shows that a top-level international tournament every 2 years is an attractive model. Football has the World Cup alternating with the continental championships (such as Euro) every 2 years. Let's set up something similar for hockey!


Last edited by Faterson: 11-05-2012 at 04:54 PM.
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11-06-2012, 12:12 AM
  #73
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On topic of World Championships:

Have it in September. Push the khl season to start later. NHL stars only use the preseason as tune up anyway and are scratched some games. Oh and have it every 2 years.

Edit: or even have it the first week of September so that NHL stats don't miss training camp. This allows the NTs to meet before and practice a bit as well.

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11-06-2012, 04:44 AM
  #74
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Lev Prague & Sparta Prague swap coaches:
  • Jandač from Lev to Sparta
  • Sýkora (ex-SKA coach) from Sparta to Lev
And of course the rumour mill saying Sparta will play in the KHL next season instead of Lev, keeps on spinning...

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11-06-2012, 05:06 AM
  #75
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And yet Lev has higher attendance (7850) than Sparta(5720) and Slavia(3700).

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