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2012-13 Lockout Discussion Part VI: The "What Comes Before Square One?" Edition

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Old
11-05-2012, 01:20 PM
  #176
Levitate
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I was joking about the dog...

e: I'm also pretty skeptical about any "insider sources", mainly because I don't think anyone but the top guys have a real good idea about what's going on, and anyone below them is probably only going to hear the party line about how things are terrible and the world is ending


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Old
11-05-2012, 01:57 PM
  #177
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Hank is fleeing from the IRS.

(I am not quite sure why, but I saw a headline that Hank is forced to go back to the US for tax reasons but never read the article.)

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11-05-2012, 02:46 PM
  #178
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Originally Posted by -31- View Post
jaded pessimism
Worst Rangers' #1 ever or worst #1 ever?

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11-05-2012, 03:13 PM
  #179
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Originally Posted by Ola View Post
Hank is fleeing from the IRS.

(I am not quite sure why, but I saw a headline that Hank is forced to go back to the US for tax reasons but never read the article.)
It was an article by Expressen.

The tax rules says that if you stay 183 days or more in a row in Sweden you will have to pay a taxes to a higher tax rate.

So according to the article, if the lockout stay in place the entire season including Elitserien playoffs and
the world championship on home ice, he need to leave the country for 30 days.

http://www.expressen.se/sport/hockey...mnar-goteborg/

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11-05-2012, 03:29 PM
  #180
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Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
I was joking about the dog...

e: I'm also pretty skeptical about any "insider sources", mainly because I don't think anyone but the top guys have a real good idea about what's going on, and anyone below them is probably only going to hear the party line about how things are terrible and the world is ending
Completely agree.

In fact, this whole thing has been a narrative of extremes from the posters on this board on up. One day we're popping champagne and proclaiming hockey is on the horizon, the next minute we are kissing the season goodbye. You could write an entire thesis on this -- its a symptom of what we've become as a society....one that wants a final answer, and wants it yesterday.

This is a negotiation - and its a process. Outside of 4 men, the best thing (and really all) we can do is exhibit some patience.

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11-05-2012, 03:48 PM
  #181
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IF negotiations progress, a quick agreement is a longshot. Could take 1 week minimum to reach a deal.

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11-05-2012, 05:35 PM
  #182
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Darren Dreger ‏@DarrenDreger
IF negotiations progress, a quick agreement is a longshot. Could take 1 week minimum to reach a deal.
That's still light speed as far as these negotiations have gone.

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11-05-2012, 06:06 PM
  #183
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Hopefully they can get to an agreement over the weekend. And the season can start around Thanksgiving.

About 65 game season would be good.

I'm mostly interested in what aspects they will address regarding player safety, realignment, and anything else that would directly effect the on ice product.

Realignment has to happen. Winnipeg can't continue to play in the Southeast Division. If they don't fully realign the league structure as was reported many months ago, at least switch Winnipeg and Nashville. The realignment proposal is interesting. The notion of two "eastern" teams or two "western" teams playing in the Stanley Cup Finals is intriguing. NYR vs Boston Cup Final? DET vs VAN? The potential to have some interesting Cup Finals. Also makes realignment easier in the event a team relocates. Downside is parity would mostly be lost.

The contract structures obviously need to be changed and will be.

Hopefully the major economic issues can be worked out by the weekend.

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11-05-2012, 06:52 PM
  #184
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What's Redden doing?

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11-05-2012, 07:08 PM
  #185
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What's Redden doing?
Living large, I'm sure.

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11-05-2012, 07:15 PM
  #186
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Living large, I'm sure.
That goes without saying. Is he injured, scratched or retired?

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11-05-2012, 07:16 PM
  #187
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Originally Posted by The OttoMan Lion View Post
That goes without saying. Is he injured, scratched or retired?
Rangers are essentially just saving themselves $6.5 million because if he was playing AHL games they'd be paying him. Not to mention if he got injured, they couldn't buy him out if that is the plan.

So Redden is just sitting pretty at home I'm sure, locked out like all the other NHL players. Hopefully he's been stocking up on some of that cash he's been making.

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Old
11-05-2012, 07:18 PM
  #188
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Originally Posted by silverfish View Post
Rangers are essentially just saving themselves $6.5 million because if he was playing AHL games they'd be paying him. Not to mention if he got injured, they couldn't buy him out if that is the plan.

So Redden is just sitting pretty at home I'm sure, locked out like all the other NHL players. Hopefully he's been stocking up on some of that cash he's been making.
Ah, of course. Makes sense he's taking time off then.

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11-05-2012, 07:37 PM
  #189
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Originally Posted by The OttoMan Lion View Post
Ah, of course. Makes sense he's taking time off then.
Maybe he's working at Drury's pizza place. That way all of Dolan's dead money is in the same place.

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Old
11-05-2012, 10:01 PM
  #190
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Hopefully they can get to an agreement over the weekend. And the season can start around Thanksgiving.

About 65 game season would be good.

I'm mostly interested in what aspects they will address regarding player safety, realignment, and anything else that would directly effect the on ice product.

Realignment has to happen. Winnipeg can't continue to play in the Southeast Division. If they don't fully realign the league structure as was reported many months ago, at least switch Winnipeg and Nashville. The realignment proposal is interesting. The notion of two "eastern" teams or two "western" teams playing in the Stanley Cup Finals is intriguing. NYR vs Boston Cup Final? DET vs VAN? The potential to have some interesting Cup Finals. Also makes realignment easier in the event a team relocates. Downside is parity would mostly be lost.

The contract structures obviously need to be changed and will be.

Hopefully the major economic issues can be worked out by the weekend.
Nashville doesn't want to move into the Eastern Conference--they are in the Central Time Zone. The most logical teams to move to the east would be either Detroit (they really wants to move) or Columbus. Both are in the Eastern Time Zone.

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11-05-2012, 10:16 PM
  #191
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No way do I want Detroit in the East. They have Western Conference ties and I value history.

Switch Winnipeg with Nashville or Columbus and call it a day.

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Old
11-05-2012, 10:19 PM
  #192
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Originally Posted by Brooklyn Ranger View Post
Nashville doesn't want to move into the Eastern Conference--they are in the Central Time Zone. The most logical teams to move to the east would be either Detroit (they really wants to move) or Columbus. Both are in the Eastern Time Zone.
Regardless of whether Nashville is in the central time zone or not... they are much closer to Tampa, Miami, and Raleigh than Columbus is.

Columbus works in the southeast, IMO, but they are only closer to Washington DC.

The best fit to move IMO is Nashville. It gives a quality team into that division which is already probably the weakest in the league to help balance it out. And it has the closest proximity to the Florida and Carolina teams as it is.

Swap them and Winnipeg. Done.

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Old
11-05-2012, 10:42 PM
  #193
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Originally Posted by Brooklyn Ranger View Post
Nashville doesn't want to move into the Eastern Conference--they are in the Central Time Zone. The most logical teams to move to the east would be either Detroit (they really wants to move) or Columbus. Both are in the Eastern Time Zone.
The current format doesn't take time zones into consideration.

That's something they addressed in the realignment proposal. That's why the proposal had 4 Conferences.

Current format doesn't consider time zone, it only considers geographic proximity. Nashville is the closest NHL city to the Southeast group of teams that comprise the Southeast Division.

If you move any other team, like a domino effect, you have to move more to compensate.

The realignment proposal solved this issue by having 4 independent conferences, no divisions, based on time zones.

Two eastern time zone conferences.
One central (or thereabouts) time zone conference.
One comprised of both mountain and pacific time zones.

Under the current format the only switch that makes any sense is Nashville to the southeast, because it is, and Winnipeg to the central, because it is.


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Old
11-05-2012, 11:26 PM
  #194
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I frankly don't see how it makes that much difference.

Does Winnipeg flying to Miami really hurt them more than Washington DC flying to Miami?

I mean, it's a plane ride. Maybe a 4 hour plane ride versus a 2 hour plane ride.

I can understand you don't want teams crossing coasts all the time, but I frankly don't really care whether Columbus or Nashville is closer to the southeast, etc.

I want to whatever alignment keeps the most traditional rivalries intact.

And for what it's worth I hate the four conference idea. None of the other leagues do it. Each have two conferences with three divisions. The NHL should be the same.

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11-06-2012, 12:24 AM
  #195
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Originally Posted by mschmidt64 View Post
I frankly don't see how it makes that much difference.

Does Winnipeg flying to Miami really hurt them more than Washington DC flying to Miami?

I mean, it's a plane ride. Maybe a 4 hour plane ride versus a 2 hour plane ride.

I can understand you don't want teams crossing coasts all the time, but I frankly don't really care whether Columbus or Nashville is closer to the southeast, etc.

I want to whatever alignment keeps the most traditional rivalries intact.

And for what it's worth I hate the four conference idea. None of the other leagues do it. Each have two conferences with three divisions. The NHL should be the same.
That's one thing we agree--I absolutely hated the plan that the League wanted to implement. We'll have to see what happens since this issue will have to be resolved as well.

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11-06-2012, 05:42 AM
  #196
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Every article says the NHL and NHLPA are meeting today and its a critical meeting or a critical week. One player tells the Toronto Star that a deal is not close. Other players are optimistic. Keep quiet.

John Shannon

Quote:
For example, 50 per cent of hockey related revenue (HRR) to the players and 50 per cent to the owners is fair. I have been told that the issues related to HRR are no longer a factor and both sides are speaking the same language.

As well, the 60 per cent of players who are still under contract and the additional portion of that were part of the summer-signing frenzy should receive all of their money. Yes, they should be made "whole" before the new CBA expires. Owners that abused Gary Bettman's advice of 'business as usual' should not be able to hide behind any rollback. And if, in fact, any owners who signed those contracts assuming there would be a rollback should be ashamed for a premeditated act of deception. The players getting the money owed to them is surely fair. I don't care how owners get the money, but it should not come out of the players' share. Not fair.

Contracts that go into double-digits (term) have to be removed. These contracts have made a mockery of a business that is filled with big-money teams and just as many big-money losing teams. While the concept of averaging the salary of a contract over its duration looked lovely on paper, it has not worked well enough in the salary-cap era.

The abuses outweigh the advantages and the self-inflicted wounds the teams had to endure became laughable. Seven-year contracts (each year no more than 10 per cent apart) are fair.
http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl-l...tive_progress/

Shannon wrote about other reasonable compromises.

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11-06-2012, 05:46 AM
  #197
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“They (Daly and Steve Fehr) talked for a long time. I guess that’s a positive sign,” said Bartlett.

As the two sides get towards the inevitable 50-50 split of hockey-related revenue, Bartlett knows the league has now offered to guarantee payment on all existing player contracts through deferred payments, out of the owners’ pockets in the “make whole” provision. Three weeks ago, the deferred payments would have come out of the players’ share of the 50-50 split of revenue. That was a non-starter.
http://www.edmontonjournal.com/sport...561/story.html

That's Steve Bartlett. Player agent. No specific proposal was made about the "make whole" but Daly and Fehr did discuss it. Word got back to the agents. Bartlett doesn't believe the PA should agree to contract term limits. Lets not be stupid here. 7 years or 8 years is more than enough. The players should retain free agency and arbitration where it is.

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11-06-2012, 06:08 AM
  #198
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The U.S. women’s national team poses for a team photo at the New York Rangers’ locker room. The guy standing out in the back is Rangers player Mike Rupp. Photo: Julie Juarez / USA Hocke



Why is Rupp allowed in the facility?

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Old
11-06-2012, 06:19 AM
  #199
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http://www.iihf.com/home-of-hockey/n...ash=0fa4d07ce0






Why is Rupp allowed in the facility?
Why is the women's team allowed in the facility?

Locked-out players are the same as normal people. If normal people are there, Rupp can be there as well. He just can't use the facility to train.

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11-06-2012, 07:49 AM
  #200
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Another undisclosed location.

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Bruce Garrioch ‏@SunGarrioch
There will be a couple of NHL owners in the meeting today with Gary Bettman and Bill Daly in New York. #NHL #NHLPA
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Pierre LeBrun ‏@Real_ESPNLeBrun
NHL doesn't plan to do any media availability today but NHLPA plans to have media avail... Actual meeting in undisclosed location in NY

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