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11-05-2012, 03:30 AM
  #126
Exit Dose
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Originally Posted by Paul4587 View Post
To be fair to Holland, this years AHL is of a much higher standard than last years AHL where Bonino had similar production with 22 points in 19 games.
For most teams in the AHL this is a much tougher league to play in. Are we one of those teams? Well, the top scorer in the FEL is fighting with the top scorers in the CHL and Division I for a permanent spot in our AHL team's top 6. We have the top goaltender in the SEL fighting for starts with a gold medal winning goalie from team Russia. If there is something abnormal about the AHL this year, teams like ours are it. That's not even getting into our blue line, which as you've seen, has a couple of ridiculous talents on it. Most of our opponents this year are going to have to win an uphill battle against us. We on the other hand have to not lose a downhill battle.

If we were playing against OKC and Houston every night, Holland would have a case for playing in a tougher league. As it currently stands, he has it far easier than Bonino did last season in Syracuse.


Last edited by Exit Dose: 11-05-2012 at 03:54 AM.
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11-05-2012, 02:34 PM
  #127
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Originally Posted by Paul4587 View Post
To be fair to Holland, this years AHL is of a much higher standard than last years AHL where Bonino had similar production with 22 points in 19 games.

As for the Holland/Bonino argument I think whoever is the better player through whatever preseason games/camp we may see should get the 2nd line job to start with. It's not hard to change the lines if things are not working. The one thing I really want to see though is Ryan and Teemu playing together. Teemu deserves a legitimate top 6 forward to work with.
No, you're right. That's a fair point. In that sense, you could give Holland the edge this season. On the other hand, Palmieri is a better player than he was then, and that's an advantage for Holland. Not to mention having an offensive defenseman like Vatanen out there helping. I'm not sure the end result changes much though. At least not enough that Holland jumps past Bonino without out-playing him head-to-head. Holland is impressing, and if he keeps playing well, I think he's going to force Anaheim's hand into seeing how he looks with the big boys.

I'd be pretty disappointed with Boudreau if he didn't experiment with combinations, unless everything just seems to click. There is really no reason not to give Holland a shot, if he plays well, and Bonino just doesn't look quite as good as expected. I don't think anyone here is saying the depth chart is set in stone, so much as they are saying that Bonino has earned first crack. Where it goes from there... well, that's up to them.

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11-05-2012, 03:36 PM
  #128
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IIRC, Perry played LW when Lupul was put on a line with the twins back in 09-10, so I'm pretty sure he could play there if Palmieri can't adjust.

Here's another lineup possibility:

Perry-Getzlaf-Palmieri
Ryan-Holland-Selanne
Cogliano-Koivu-DSP
Winnik-Bonino-Beleskey
Staubitz

Damn, we really have a screwy lineup.... it's going to take a while for everybody to find their proper spot in the lineup. Literally 5/6 of the lineup could be switched around (6/7 different guys can play center!), with the only constants being Perry and Getzlaf on the 1st line.
I understand wanting to play Palmieri at his natural RW position, but I think Getzlaf and Perry are guys who are "set in stone", as a 1C and 1RW. You don't move those guys around.

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11-05-2012, 05:20 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by Ducks DVM View Post
No, he's performing about as well as Palmieri did last year, and Bonino did the year before. Neither of them excelled in their first NHL call-ups. Getzlaf ripped it up with 33 points in 17 AHL games. Perry ripped it up with 34 points in 19 games. 10 points in 8 games is very good, but it isn't ripping it up.
Except in a lockout year, the AHL is much stronger and Holland is playing like the best forward on the Ads right now

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11-05-2012, 05:25 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by OccupySheen View Post
Except in a lockout year, the AHL is much stronger and Holland is playing like the best forward on the Ads right now
He's also got better players to support him. Certainly more than Bonino had. Why are you opposed to Holland having to earn his spot? Or having to out-play Bonino to jump past him on the depth chart? You pencilled Etem into the line-up a number of times too, before he'd proven himself at the NHL level. Look how that has turned out.

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11-05-2012, 05:28 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by Sojourn View Post
He's also got better players to support him. Certainly more than Bonino had. Why are you opposed to Holland having to earn his spot? Or having to out-play Bonino to jump past him on the depth chart? You pencilled Etem into the line-up a number of times too, before he'd proven himself at the NHL level. Look how that has turned out.
Yeah. Right now I'd say Bonino probably is a better player. Holland has better tools to become that 2C that we've been looking for. But since BB wants to roll 4 lines we can start the season with Bonino at 2C, and Holland at 4C. If Holland carves things up then we can always switch them.

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11-05-2012, 05:32 PM
  #132
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Here is one more option

Beleskey-Getz-Perry
Ryan-Bonino-Palmieri
DSP-Koivu-Selanne
Winnik-Cogs-Staubitz

My preference

Palmieri-Getz-Perry
Ryan-Bonino-Selanne
Winnick-Koivu-Beleskey
DSP-Cogs-Staubitz

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11-05-2012, 05:44 PM
  #133
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Winnik can play center, and he'd probably be a better option for the 4th line than Cogliano.

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11-05-2012, 05:45 PM
  #134
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Palmieri-Getzlaf-Perry
Ryan-Bonino-Selanne
Cogliano-Koivu-DSP
Beleskey-Winnik-Staubitz

Could work. I'd like to have some more size, but there's already a decent amount of grit, and the D corps is already pretty big...

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11-05-2012, 05:49 PM
  #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OCSportsfan View Post
Here is one more option

Beleskey-Getz-Perry
Ryan-Bonino-Palmieri
DSP-Koivu-Selanne
Winnik-Cogs-Staubitz

My preference

Palmieri-Getz-Perry
Ryan-Bonino-Selanne
Winnick-Koivu-Beleskey
DSP-Cogs-Staubitz
Regarding the first option, I think Beleskey had his shots playing with the twins and outside of a handful of games in 09-10 he proved he wasn't up to it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hampeus View Post
Winnik can play center, and he'd probably be a better option for the 4th line than Cogliano.
I don't know why Winnik is listed as a centre but he's very much a LWer. Cogliano at least played centre the whole time he was in Edmonton.

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11-05-2012, 05:55 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by Sojourn View Post
He's also got better players to support him. Certainly more than Bonino had. Why are you opposed to Holland having to earn his spot? Or having to out-play Bonino to jump past him on the depth chart? You pencilled Etem into the line-up a number of times too, before he'd proven himself at the NHL level. Look how that has turned out.
Who said I was opposed to anything? he IS earning it right now with the way he is playing. jesus all i suggested is he could be on a scoring line for us and you guys jump all over me and paint me as some sort of bonino hater, also I never said Etem would for sure make the ducks out of camp so stop making things up that i haven't posted

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11-05-2012, 06:07 PM
  #137
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Originally Posted by OccupySheen View Post
Who said I was opposed to anything? he IS earning it right now with the way he is playing. jesus all i suggested is he could be on a scoring line for us and you guys jump all over me and paint me as some sort of bonino hater, also I never said Etem would for sure make the ducks out of camp so stop making things up that i haven't posted
He hasn't really earned it though. 10 points in 8 games is good, but it isn't what Getzlaf and Perry did. Those guys proved that they only belonged in one league, and that was the NHL. If Bonino was in the AHL right now, I see nothing really to suggest that he couldn't do even better than 10 points in 8 games. Long term, I agree with you, Holland will probably end up the better option for 2C, but right now it's Bonino until Holland out-plays him in the NHL.

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11-05-2012, 06:29 PM
  #138
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Originally Posted by AngelDuck View Post
He hasn't really earned it though. 10 points in 8 games is good, but it isn't what Getzlaf and Perry did. Those guys proved that they only belonged in one league, and that was the NHL.
Getzlaf and Perry were pretty special players though, even back then. No offense to Holland and the current group of prospects we have but none of them are projected to be as good as the twins are.

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11-05-2012, 08:17 PM
  #139
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Originally Posted by OccupySheen View Post
Who said I was opposed to anything? he IS earning it right now with the way he is playing. jesus all i suggested is he could be on a scoring line for us and you guys jump all over me and paint me as some sort of bonino hater, also I never said Etem would for sure make the ducks out of camp so stop making things up that i haven't posted
The point is though, that Holland isn't dominating the league like those two did, and those two started.....not on the second line. He's proven the right to a call up, not to be given a top 6 role. The coaching staff the last 2 years running has said Bonino has been far and away the strongest player on the farm team and that's why he got the most call up time. He struggled. Palmieri was 2. He struggled. There's no reason to suspect Holland would be any different.

I think there's some overrating as to how hard it is against the teams they've played as well. Winnipeg and San Jose are two of the worst prospect pools in the league, the Rangers' top prospects are forwards, not defensemen, and Ottawa traded their only defensive (prospect) stud to Phoenix. Holland isn't playing in a checking role. I'm going to guess his 23.8 shooting percentage is also just a bit misleading for the long term.

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11-05-2012, 10:28 PM
  #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OccupySheen View Post
Who said I was opposed to anything? he IS earning it right now with the way he is playing. jesus all i suggested is he could be on a scoring line for us and you guys jump all over me and paint me as some sort of bonino hater, also I never said Etem would for sure make the ducks out of camp so stop making things up that i haven't posted
You sure balked when people said Etem would probably need time in the AHL, and would need to adjust.

At any rate, how is Holland earning it now? Because you haven't been able to see Bonino? Getzlaf and Perry didn't start on a scoring line. Bobby Ryan didn't start on a scoring line(and this during a time when Anaheim was desperate for as much offense as they could get). If those three players didn't, why should Holland get the benefit of the doubt before he's proven he's got the goods at the NHL level? Putting Holland into a top six role, before he's earned it, sounds an awful lot like putting Sbisa into a top four role before he earned it... only worse, because Sbisa had some NHL experience at the time.

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11-24-2012, 09:22 AM
  #141
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So...what have we established so far?

- Holland and Palmieri look NHL-ready. I would pencil inn Holland as 2C at this day (given the alternatives, or lack thereof).
- I wouldn't be surprised to see Lindholm getting NHL-time if there is to be a season. He will certainly figure in the NHL next season.
- Vatanen needs more time.
- Those who thought Etem could crack the NHL-roster were heavily mistaken.
- Given the fact that Andersen had better numbers than Fasth in SEL last season, we will be ****ed if Hiller gets injured.
- Lets not trade Lydman.

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11-24-2012, 10:24 AM
  #142
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So...what have we established so far?

- Holland and Palmieri look NHL-ready. I would pencil inn Holland as 2C at this day (given the alternatives, or lack thereof).
- I wouldn't be surprised to see Lindholm getting NHL-time if there is to be a season. He will certainly figure in the NHL next season.
- Vatanen needs more time.
- Those who thought Etem could crack the NHL-roster were heavily mistaken.
- Given the fact that Andersen had better numbers than Fasth in SEL last season, we will be ****ed if Hiller gets injured.
- Lets not trade Lydman.
We shouldn't pencil KP and Holland into our top six just yet. We have to remember that they'll be rookies. There will be struggles in their first full season. I also think that if they were eyeballing Palmieri for LW, we'd be seeing it in Norfolk - like we are with Etem. Palmieri might have enough polish to slip into Teemu's spot, from the extra season in the minors(if our next season is in 2014).

I wouldn't be that concerned about Fasth. Sure Andersen had better numbers, but he was also a 22-year-old rookie. His first season may have seen him punching above his weight, ala Steve Mason. Fasth is older and more polished. I think the real concern is that we need to sign someone to hold in reserve in Norfolk, just in case Hiller goes down with an injury, or Fasth fails to adjust to the NA game.

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11-24-2012, 03:04 PM
  #143
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Palmieri is not technically a rookie anymore

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11-24-2012, 03:23 PM
  #144
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Palmieri is not technically a rookie anymore
In the sense of being eligible for the Calder, but he is a rookie in the practical sense of building a roster.

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11-24-2012, 08:22 PM
  #145
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In the sense of being eligible for the Calder, but he is a rookie in the practical sense of building a roster.
Agreed. Usually I'm all for consistent classifications, but this is about experience, not eligibility. He's a rookie.

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01-06-2013, 06:03 AM
  #146
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So...where are we exactly at with the lines now? I guess both Holland and Palmieri are starters?

Will Vatanen and/or Lindholm get their chance during this shortened season?

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01-06-2013, 06:06 AM
  #147
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It's been so long that I've forgotten a lot.

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01-06-2013, 06:08 AM
  #148
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Originally Posted by quentez View Post
So...where are we exactly at with the lines now? I guess both Holland and Palmieri are starters?

Will Vatanen and/or Lindholm get their chance during this shortened season?
Based on the lockout, I'm thinking...

1st line center: Bonino
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
the rest.

But really: Palms/Getz/Perrs; Ryan/Holland/Teemu; DSP/Koivu/Cogs; Beleskey/Bonino/Winnik; Fowler/Beauch; Allen/Sbisa; Souray/Lydman; Hiller/Fasth.

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01-06-2013, 06:11 AM
  #149
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Lindholm/Vatanen will probably only get a chance depending on injury

My best guess for lines would be something like this (Unsure if Holland will be #2 C, but are we really going to go with Koivu or Bonino as #2 C?)

(Weren't we splitting time with the 2nd and 3rd line this season? I swear I saw some postings on it in September about an idea like this)

?-Getzlaf-Perry
Palmieri-Holland-Ryan
DSP-Koivu-Selanne
Beleskey-Bonino-Winnik

Fowler-Beauch
Allen-Sbisa
Souray-Lydman
Guenin

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01-06-2013, 06:15 AM
  #150
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Where's Cogs?

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