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2012-2013 Anaheim Ducks Prospect Update

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11-04-2012, 08:21 AM
  #76
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Except O`Brien, i`m pretty unhappy about our CHL prospects. They CAN do better!

Gibson have some pretty nice stats

PS
thx for update, quentez!

PPS

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11-04-2012, 09:32 AM
  #77
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That's quite the PIM total for O'Brien. The Q doesn't have a fighting rule like the OHL, does it?

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11-04-2012, 02:39 PM
  #78
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Except O`Brien, i`m pretty unhappy about our CHL prospects. They CAN do better!

O'Brien may have only just been drafted but he's about to turn 20. He should be putting up those kind of numbers. And I don't really think Rakell should be judged on his numbers alone, there's clearly far more to his game than scoring. I do agree about the other guys, I know very little about Helgesen but Cramarossa will be lucky to get an ELC after this season.

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That's quite the PIM total for O'Brien. The Q doesn't have a fighting rule like the OHL, does it?
Not yet it doesn't.

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11-04-2012, 02:46 PM
  #79
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O'Brien may have only just been drafted but he's about to turn 20. He should be putting up those kind of numbers. And I don't really think Rakell should be judged on his numbers alone, there's clearly far more to his game than scoring. I do agree about the other guys, I know very little about Helgesen but Cramarossa will be lucky to get an ELC after this season.
True about O`Brien, but, as Rakell, i think his ability is more wider than stats show. He`s defensive defenseman, and have put up nice numbers, he`s physical and plays PK a lot. As i`ve been able to judge from +/- stats on game sheets (who is on ice at the time), he also plays big minutes in cruical moments.

Since Rakell is a 1st rounder, i`d enjoy some better stats from him, while keeping his nice defensive game.

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11-04-2012, 02:56 PM
  #80
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True about O`Brien, but, as Rakell, i think his ability is more wider than stats show. He`s defensive defenseman, and have put up nice numbers, he`s physical and plays PK a lot. As i`ve been able to judge from +/- stats on game sheets (who is on ice at the time), he also plays big minutes in cruical moments.

Since Rakell is a 1st rounder, i`d enjoy some better stats from him, while keeping his nice defensive game.
You're basically admitting though that you're making these judgements based entirely on stats.

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11-04-2012, 03:01 PM
  #81
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You're basically admitting though that you're making these judgements based entirely on stats.
I`ve never said that i`m not. Those are just my ''judgments'' from stat sheet, that even me not taking 100% serious.

But as i`ve heard from reports so far, that`s what`s going on: Rakell is ok, but nothing more, while O`Brien have impressed at least a little. Well, he is an overager, but he`s a 4th rounder and on the same age as Rakell. The same i was judging from plain stats and what i`ve heard from those seen them play.
They are not 100% trustable, but you cant just throw away stats as a useless thing.

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11-04-2012, 03:11 PM
  #82
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O'Brien may have only just been drafted but he's about to turn 20. He should be putting up those kind of numbers. And I don't really think Rakell should be judged on his numbers alone, there's clearly far more to his game than scoring. I do agree about the other guys, I know very little about Helgesen but Cramarossa will be lucky to get an ELC after this season.



Not yet it doesn't.
Just curious if you've been watching Cramarossa?

Because IMO from watching him I would sign him to a entry level deal. He will never be a high scorer, but he is solid on faceoffs and plays an on edge game the Ducks could really use in the future.

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11-04-2012, 03:13 PM
  #83
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Just curious if you've been watching Cramarossa?

Because IMO from watching him I would sign him to a entry level deal. He will never be a high scorer, but he is solid on faceoffs and plays an on edge game the Ducks could really use in the future.
Same here. At the very least, he'd be a good player to have in Norfolk. He has a lot more skill than the stat sheet would indicate.

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11-04-2012, 03:22 PM
  #84
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I`ve heard also about Cramarossa that he is a much more than on a stat sheet (as every single Ducks prospect now ). But even with that he`s putting up to less points. You have to be able to earn points no matter how monsterous you are on your own end, as an overager. Hopefully he pans out. He had better numbers previous seasons.

But i remain hopefull that he`ll pan out at one point.

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11-04-2012, 03:48 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Kalvinators View Post
I`ve heard also about Cramarossa that he is a much more than on a stat sheet (as every single Ducks prospect now ). But even with that he`s putting up to less points. You have to be able to earn points no matter how monsterous you are on your own end, as an overager. Hopefully he pans out. He had better numbers previous seasons.

But i remain hopefull that he`ll pan out at one point.
Not necessarily. Some guys just can't score all that much. From what I've read, he's looked good(for his role) in prospect camps. I expect they'll at least give him a shot in the AHL.

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11-04-2012, 03:58 PM
  #86
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Just curious if you've been watching Cramarossa?

Because IMO from watching him I would sign him to a entry level deal. He will never be a high scorer, but he is solid on faceoffs and plays an on edge game the Ducks could really use in the future.
Admittedly I haven't which is why my argument is pretty flawed. I'm basing it on the fact that almost every major junior player who goes on to play in the NHL (excluding goons) will have put up somewhat decent offensive numbers by their 20 year old season. Troy Bodie put up 28 goals in his last year of juniors. JF Jacques scored 78 points in 66 games. Even Josh Brittain had a year where he scored 32 goals. Cramarossa's career high is 12 and this year he's on pace for 8-9 goals at the moment.

I could be 100% off on this and I'll gladly admit it if Cramarossa ever plays an NHL game. I'm not a fan of boxscore scouting and but his numbers just stand out as completely unimpressive even for a defensive forward with character.

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11-04-2012, 04:01 PM
  #87
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Completely agree with Paul here.

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11-04-2012, 04:11 PM
  #88
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Admittedly I haven't which is why my argument is pretty flawed. I'm basing it on the fact that almost every major junior player who goes on to play in the NHL (excluding goons) will have put up somewhat decent offensive numbers by their 20 year old season. Troy Bodie put up 28 goals in his last year of juniors. JF Jacques scored 78 points in 66 games. Even Josh Brittain had a year where he scored 32 goals. Cramarossa's career high is 12 and this year he's on pace for 8-9 goals at the moment.

I could be 100% off on this and I'll gladly admit it if Cramarossa ever plays an NHL game. I'm not a fan of boxscore scouting and but his numbers just stand out as completely unimpressive even for a defensive forward with character.
To be fair, if I hadn't seen a few of his games this year, I'd be thinking the same thing. Right now, I think he'd be a better option than going the undrafted FA route to fill out one of the spots in the minors. I think this may be a similar situation to Heed.

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11-04-2012, 05:03 PM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul4587 View Post
Admittedly I haven't which is why my argument is pretty flawed. I'm basing it on the fact that almost every major junior player who goes on to play in the NHL (excluding goons) will have put up somewhat decent offensive numbers by their 20 year old season. Troy Bodie put up 28 goals in his last year of juniors. JF Jacques scored 78 points in 66 games. Even Josh Brittain had a year where he scored 32 goals. Cramarossa's career high is 12 and this year he's on pace for 8-9 goals at the moment.

I could be 100% off on this and I'll gladly admit it if Cramarossa ever plays an NHL game. I'm not a fan of boxscore scouting and but his numbers just stand out as completely unimpressive even for a defensive forward with character.
Your stats are a bit off. Cramarossa's career high is 14 goals(14 goals 13 assists last season in 44 games). Not at all mind blowing. But he spent some of last season injured and in a 3rd line role.

And for every JF Jacques and Troy Bodie you throw at me I can throw a guy like Marcus Foligno at you(career high of 23 goals in OHL). Who seems to be an impact player in his early career.

My point isn't to bash you, just as someone who has seen the guy play I think he will get an entry level deal. He most likely won't be a top 6 player ever. But he adds something to the depth of the Ducks they simply don't have. A tough, gritty in your face type. IMO the one thing the Ducks forward prospects are lacking is player with an edge to their game.

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11-04-2012, 05:27 PM
  #90
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Even if a prospect is not expected to score at the NHL level, you do expect them to score a lot at the minor leagues. If they're really good enough to stick in the NHL they typically have enough puck skills to do really well in lower levels.

Here's some random guys I picked. I chose some Selke winners and finalists, as well as some PK TOI leaders and random people that came to mind. I ignored Europeans.
Player league games points PPG
Marchant college 33 46 1.39
Brind'Amopur college 42 59 1.40
Draper OHL 39 61 1.56
Madden college 42 63 1.50
R. Niedermayer WHL 52 77 1.48
Kesler college 40 31 0.78
Bergeron QMJHL 70 73 1.04
Peca OHL 55 113 2.05
Pandolfo college 40 67 1.68
Backes college 38 42 1.11
M. Richards OHL 43 58 1.35
J. Staal OHL 68 68 1.00
Talbot QMJHL 51 98 1.92
McClement OHL 45 49 1.09
B. Gordon WHL 56 81 1.45

Some of those numbers are surprisingly high based on the NHL production.


The way I see it scoring in the minors is generally a prerequisite to scoring in the NHL. Although not an indicator.


So taking all that into account, I would like to see more out of guys like Rakell or Cramarossa. But there are certainly exceptions, so I'm not going to discount them either.

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11-04-2012, 05:38 PM
  #91
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Your stats are a bit off. Cramarossa's career high is 14 goals(14 goals 13 assists last season in 44 games). Not at all mind blowing. But he spent some of last season injured and in a 3rd line role.

And for every JF Jacques and Troy Bodie you throw at me I can throw a guy like Marcus Foligno at you(career high of 23 goals in OHL). Who seems to be an impact player in his early career.

My point isn't to bash you, just as someone who has seen the guy play I think he will get an entry level deal. He most likely won't be a top 6 player ever. But he adds something to the depth of the Ducks they simply don't have. A tough, gritty in your face type. IMO the one thing the Ducks forward prospects are lacking is player with an edge to their game.
Yeah, I misread that he played on two different teams that season. As I said I'm not a fan of boxscore scouting but in his case the numbers are very underwhelming and have regressed from last year (although there is still a lot of time left for him to turn things around). I'll take your word for it though that he brings enough to the table to get an ELC though. I agree that we lack not only prospects with an edge to their game but players on the big club as well.

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11-04-2012, 06:00 PM
  #92
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The way I see it scoring in the minors is generally a prerequisite to scoring in the NHL. Although not an indicator.


So taking all that into account, I would like to see more out of guys like Rakell or Cramarossa. But there are certainly exceptions, so I'm not going to discount them either.
I think if we sign Cramarossa, the eye will be on what role he can play in the AHL.

Something that is also worth noting is that he hasn't been playing exclusively at center. In both of the games I saw, he spent the majority of the game at left wing. Given how much of a weakness that is in our org, that could tip the scales.

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11-04-2012, 06:12 PM
  #93
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I think if we sign Cramarossa, the eye will be on what role he can play in the AHL.

Something that is also worth noting is that he hasn't been playing exclusively at center. In both of the games I saw, he spent the majority of the game at left wing. Given how much of a weakness that is in our org, that could tip the scales.
At time he reaches pro level a lot can be changet, but for now, we are pretty stacked at bottom 6 LW`s imo.

Winnik, Beleskey, Mitchel, Brittain, Bodie, (McMillan) etc. It`s very good that he can play many positions, but i think for his role RW could be more achievable goal.
It`ll all depend on him, though, when the training cam comes. Hopefully he can put it together, I was really looking forward to him putting his game together after horrible season last year with that injury and trade.
We have to wait and see, eh

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11-04-2012, 06:31 PM
  #94
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I'm not sure what the story is with Brittain. He looked good in pre-season, but if he doesn't go back up if we have a season, it doesn't look good for him being in the picture for Norfolk.

Right now, Bodie and Mitchell are the only ones that I'd count on still being around down there. I could see losing one of Maroon or McMillan at some point to promotion. To be perfectly honest, I'd rather have Maroon on our 4th line than Staubitz.

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11-04-2012, 06:35 PM
  #95
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I'm not sure what the story is with Brittain. He looked good in pre-season, but if he doesn't go back up if we have a season, it doesn't look good for him being in the picture for Norfolk.

Right now, Bodie and Mitchell are the only ones that I'd count on still being around down there. I could see losing one of Maroon or McMillan at some point to promotion. To be perfectly honest, I'd rather have Maroon on our 4th line than Staubitz.
Agreed about Maroon over Staubitz. I like Maroon as a depth scorer with size. Not sure there is a spot for him on the 4th line though. I think there is a better chance that neither Staubitz or Maroon play many NHL games, and they just simply have Staubitz be the healthy scratch and keep Maroon in the AHL to help out Norfolk.

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11-05-2012, 06:48 PM
  #96
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For anyone worried about Rakell's numbers being lower this year, he isn't the only one on that team that's having that problem. Noesen is also coming up short right now.

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11-05-2012, 07:19 PM
  #97
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For anyone worried about Rakell's numbers being lower this year, he isn't the only one on that team that's having that problem. Noesen is also coming up short right now.
Yup. Thankfully Vellucci has kept Rakell on the 1st line, most recently with Mistele and Meurs. Noesen hasn't been as lucky being bumped to the 2nd line.

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11-05-2012, 07:30 PM
  #98
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Yup. Thankfully Vellucci has kept Rakell on the 1st line, most recently with Mistele and Meurs. Noesen hasn't been as lucky being bumped to the 2nd line.
Considering the luck Plymouth has had this year, it wouldn't surprise me if one of those two gets dealt for something to help them next year. Sarnia is the only other team I've seen that's had it worse.

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11-05-2012, 08:53 PM
  #99
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Considering the luck Plymouth has had this year, it wouldn't surprise me if one of those two gets dealt for something to help them next year. Sarnia is the only other team I've seen that's had it worse.
Maybe we'll get lucky and see Rakell as a Kitchener Ranger.

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11-05-2012, 09:35 PM
  #100
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Even if a prospect is not expected to score at the NHL level, you do expect them to score a lot at the minor leagues. If they're really good enough to stick in the NHL they typically have enough puck skills to do really well in lower levels.

Here's some random guys I picked. I chose some Selke winners and finalists, as well as some PK TOI leaders and random people that came to mind. I ignored Europeans.
Player league games points PPG
Marchant college 33 46 1.39
Brind'Amopur college 42 59 1.40
Draper OHL 39 61 1.56
Madden college 42 63 1.50
R. Niedermayer WHL 52 77 1.48
Kesler college 40 31 0.78
Bergeron QMJHL 70 73 1.04
Peca OHL 55 113 2.05
Pandolfo college 40 67 1.68
Backes college 38 42 1.11
M. Richards OHL 43 58 1.35
J. Staal OHL 68 68 1.00
Talbot QMJHL 51 98 1.92
McClement OHL 45 49 1.09
B. Gordon WHL 56 81 1.45

Some of those numbers are surprisingly high based on the NHL production.


The way I see it scoring in the minors is generally a prerequisite to scoring in the NHL. Although not an indicator.


So taking all that into account, I would like to see more out of guys like Rakell or Cramarossa. But there are certainly exceptions, so I'm not going to discount them either.
To be fair, some of those numbers are on the low side too. I think it's important to remember that some players have the advantage of playing on talented teams in the CHL(and in the CHL you have three different leagues - and the numbers from league to league are not going to be the same) or the NCAA, while others have to carry a much heavier load. On top of that, players develop at their own rate, so sometimes you're just looking at players who really started to peak a bit earlier than others, as well as others who took a bit more time.

Just a little more context.

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